How did the postboxes with the Royal Insignia survive to this day?

macgrub

I am fascinated by postboxes. In particular, colonial postboxes. However, how did the postboxes with the Royal Insignia inscribed on them survive in post-independent Ireland? In every town and village across Ireland, there are postboxes with the 'Edward Rex' or 'Victoria Regina' insignias on them to this day. Given that so many nationalists wanted to 'cleanse' Ireland of its colonial past, how did so many of these reminders survive?

tac foley

££££££££££££££.

tac

silentrust

macgrub wrote: »

I am fascinated by postboxes. In particular, colonial postboxes. However, how did the postboxes with the Royal Insignia inscribed on them survive in post-independent Ireland? In every town and village across Ireland, there are postboxes with the 'Edward Rex' or 'Victoria Regina' insignias on them to this day. Given that so many nationalists wanted to 'cleanse' Ireland of its colonial past, how did so many of these reminders survive?

Perhaps a King or Queen adds a certain touch of majesty to an otherwise mundane and functional item. Hearkening back to better times when Ireland enjoyed the love and protection of the British Empire. :-)

Better start running now. . .

Tabnabs

Why rip them out, when a financially struggling new State can just paint them green to demonstrate independence and carry on with other more important matters. Even in modern times, p&t post boxes are still common sight.

tac foley

Tabnabs wrote: »

Why rip them out, when a financially struggling new State can just paint them green to demonstrate independence and carry on with other more important matters. Even in modern times, p&t post boxes are still common sight.

That was also the point that I was making.

tac

Jawgap

macgrub wrote: »

I am fascinated by postboxes. In particular, colonial postboxes. However, how did the postboxes with the Royal Insignia inscribed on them survive in post-independent Ireland? In every town and village across Ireland, there are postboxes with the 'Edward Rex' or 'Victoria Regina' insignias on them to this day. Given that so many nationalists wanted to 'cleanse' Ireland of its colonial past, how did so many of these reminders survive?

Is there any evidence to support that last sentence?

Look close enough around Dublin and there are still plenty of 'Lions & Unicorns' around - never mind all the street names that were never changed.....

Victoria Quay, Marlborough Street, Wellington Quay, Beresford Place, William Street, Grafton Street, Westmoreland St and of course....

Britain Quay and Little Britain Street.....to name a few.

And of course Cork still has the English Market where that lady in a nice hat went shopping:D

EricPraline

Jawgap wrote: »

Is there any evidence to support that last sentence?

Look close enough around Dublin and there are still plenty of 'Lions & Unicorns' around - never mind all the street names that were never changed.....

I would have thought the attempted destruction of Georgian Dublin during the 20th century, on the myopic basis of it being a symbol of British rule, would be a good piece of evidence.

Short succint summary here:

After Ireland gained independance in 1922, the Georgian heart of Dublin was not looked on favourably by the new young country, seeing it as a symbol of British rule that the Irish had fought so long against. By now, most of the wealthy had moved to new victorian suburbs such as Ballsbridge and Rathmines. Many considered the outright demolition of these historic areas. By the 1930s, plans were discussed in Éamon de Valera's government to demolish all of Merrion Square, perhaps the most intact of the five squares, on the basis that the houses were "old fashioned" and "un-national".

http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Europe/Ireland/South/Dublin/photo1390953.htm

robp

EricPraline wrote: »

I would have thought the attempted destruction of Georgian Dublin during the 20th century, on the myopic basis of it being a symbol of British rule, would be a good piece of evidence.

Short succint summary here:

http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Europe/Ireland/South/Dublin/photo1390953.htm

True but in the end they didn't destroy Merrion Square. When structures were tore down I think unregulated capitalism played a big part (eg destruction of Fitzwilliam Street). Its really difficult to conclusively show there was a political influence.

Judgement Day

I have a newscutting from 1996 (?), where that illustrious politician Noel Ahern (Bertie's brother) was campaigning for all Royal cyphers to be removed to commemorate 90 years since the Easter Rising. Thankfully, as they are an item of our heritage, this wasn't done, although there is evidence of the practice in some areas. Boxes bearing the SE Free State emblem are actually far rarer than ones with the British Royal cypher.

More information in a previous thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80684174&postcount=14

eirator

Strange really when you think that you are more likely to come across and old British Victorian post box in Ireland than ever you are in the UK.

Cedrus

Under the radar of the trogs. Street names are much more in your face, they have to be written, read and said, they are printed in the paper and read on the news. They carry historical echos of things that happened on them. Statues (even on top of columns) are actually less intrusive though still very visible.
The cypher on a post box is just a bumpy bit to most people.

Judgement Day

You could have a point there and even in relation to street names etc. people don't really notice. The country is littered with names that recall the country's history and, in my opinion, far better than being renamed after someone with no connection to the area. Here in Enniscorthy there's a road - Lymington Road - partially renamed by the Council (?) as Parnell Road but strangely referred to by our local library (on the road) as Lymington Road.

Viscount Lymington is a secondary title of the Earl of Portsmouth who for many years owned the town of Enniscorthy and surrounding countryside. Oliver Henry Rufus Wallop is the current Viscount Lymington (b. 1981). Incidentally, the family name gave the word wallop (as in a beating) to the English language. As far as I know Parnell had nothing to do with Enniscorthy and half-assedly applying his name to a road in the town is utterly meaningless.

robp

eirator wrote: »

Strange really when you think that you are more likely to come across and old British Victorian post box in Ireland than ever you are in the UK.

I could be mistaken but my impression was there is still alot around but in urban areas they aren't so common.

ardmacha

The impression is given here that independent Ireland lost the plot and went mad removing things, when the opposite is true. In Singapore, they took an angle grinder to ER on postboxes.

silentrust

ardmacha wrote: »

The impression is given here that independent Ireland lost the plot and went mad removing things, when the opposite is true. In Singapore, they took an angle grinder to ER on postboxes.

How perfectly dreadful.... :-)

goose2005

Even though Heuston Station had its name changed, you can still see VIII. VIC on the wall (built in the eighth year of Vicky's reign)

Jawgap wrote: »

Is there any evidence to support that last sentence?

Look close enough around Dublin and there are still plenty of 'Lions & Unicorns' around - never mind all the street names that were never changed.....

Victoria Quay, Marlborough Street, Wellington Quay, Beresford Place, William Street, Grafton Street, Westmoreland St and of course....

Britain Quay and Little Britain Street.....to name a few.

And of course Cork still has the English Market where that lady in a nice hat went shopping:D

"Little Britain St" is surely an insult - it was created when most of Great Britain Street was renamed Parnell St.

ardmacha wrote: »

The impression is given here that independent Ireland lost the plot and went mad removing things, when the opposite is true. In Singapore, they took an angle grinder to ER on postboxes.

In fairness, Ireland was never surrendered to the Japanese - I don't think the Singaporeans (?) will ever forgive that.

ardmacha

In fairness, Ireland was never surrendered to the Japanese - I don't think the Singaporeans (?) will ever forgive that.

once the Japanese had arrived, doing a Stalingrad would not have been a good plan either, there wouldn't have been any postboxes left.

Jawgap

goose2005 wrote: »

Even though Heuston Station had its name changed, you can still see VIII. VIC on the wall (built in the eighth year of Vicky's reign)

"Little Britain St" is surely an insult - it was created when most of Great Britain Street was renamed Parnell St.

I don't think so - only because in the vicinity you also have Little Green St (along with Green St) and Strand Street Little and Great Strand Street.

I think the the "Little" refers to to the narrowness of the street.

Anyway - they're all 'behind' Capel Street, named for a Viceroy of Ireland which crosses Grattan Bridge - still referred to by some as Essex Bridge (same Viceroy) and up to Parliament Street, which to be fair I think was named for the Irish Parliament which funded the construction of City Hall......

.......at the other end of Capel Street is Bolton Street - named for a Lord Lieutenant of Ireland.

goose2005 wrote: »

In fairness, Ireland was never surrendered to the Japanese - I don't think the Singaporeans (?) will ever forgive that.

I don't think it was so much the surrender itself as the chain of events that led up it, including the chronic neglect of their defences in the run up to the war.

Judgement Day

As an aside, I have a rare collectable Irish pillar box for sale on Adverts.ie here: http://www.adverts.ie/other-antiques-collectables/irish-post-box-rare-miniature-collectable/3378075

Jawgap

Judgement Day wrote: »

As an aside, I have a rare collectable Irish pillar box for sale on Adverts.ie here: http://www.adverts.ie/other-antiques-collectables/irish-post-box-rare-miniature-collectable/3378075

Found something to go with it :pac:

tac foley

It seems to me that taking everything attributable to the English out of Ireland, no matter how admirable such an ambition might seem to be in some quarters, would serve only to deprive the Republic of much of its history. After all, the British are gone, and all of you are there, proudly citizens of a republic.

Here in yUK people live in dozens of towns and cities named by the Romans, who arrived in 44AD and carried out a wholesale slaughter of the inhabitants of the island, and occupied the island for over 400 years, yet nobody in the second largest city in the country, ManCHESTER, gives a square root of a b&gger all about that.

After the Romans had b&ggered off back to Italy, the next lot of invasions came over from mainland Europe, and brought their numerous languages, religions, and their way of life with them. As a result, about a third of all place names in England, particularly on the eastern half of the country, are derived from these invasive languages, but I don't notice anybody calling for them to be re-named in the sole surviving truly British language, now called Welsh [by the invaders, of course].

In Ireland those same invaders even gave you two counties named in their own language - Waterford and Wexford. Where are the protestors who want to call them by their ancient Irish names and replace those Norse ones? Where are the people who want to re-name all the Foleys in Ireland with good old Irish names? I'm quite happy to be so named, since by acknowledging it, I'm also acknowledging the wisdom of my ancestors, who chose to go right instead of left when they got to the seas between Ireland and Scotland.

As one person of my acquaintance noted when his companion was complaining about the way things were where they lived - if you don't like where you're at, find someplace you do.

tac

mikemac1

Maybe Noel Ahern could have looked at why Dublin and Cork have a Lord Mayor.

His brothers Bertie and Maurice held this job in Dublin.

Jawgap

mikemac1 wrote: »

Maybe Noel Ahern could have looked at why Dublin and Cork have a Lord Mayor.

His brothers Bertie and Maurice held this job in Dublin.

Maybe he should've looked out the windown when he was Taoiseach - I think there's a statue to Prince Albert still in the grounds of Leinster House (I might be wrong).

The statue of Queen Victoria was only removed after WWII and I think it's in Canada or Australia now - with one part, "Hibernia at War" tucked away in Dublin Castle.

SpaceTime

The way I look at it, is that the British era is part of our past and the rich tapestry of what makes up Ireland. Things move on and old symbols sometimes endure.

So, really I just see them as a quirky relic of another age entirely much like bits of Roman ruins in England or palaces in Paris.

The fact that we don't just angle grind them off just shows a bit of cultural maturity and ability to be confident about our identity.

We moved on but I think you have to just accept the past not delete it.

The past is the past, it's not always pretty or ideal but it happened!

corktina

History is history, you can't change it with an angle grinder. Painting them green was a much stronger statement, showing that the British Monarch has been superceded in this Country, whilst retaining the History involved.

gobnaitolunacy

Local An Post postman still uses a set of postbox keys with a brass key fob labelled 'Royal Mail' to this day!

TBH the old Victorian and Edwardian postboxes are a lot nicer looking than the modern sheet steel ones.

corktina

it's always nice to run across a bit of history, whether it be a post box or a standing stone, indeed it also nice to find a PT concrete phone box nowadays, not many of them left I'd say.

pinkypinky

My local Free State era postbox was replaced recently. While it looked lovely, larger modern envelopes had to be folded to fit into it.

Tabnabs

tac foley wrote: »

It seems to me that taking everything attributable to the English out of Ireland, no matter how admirable such an ambition might seem to be in some quarters, would serve only to deprive the Republic of much of its history. After all, the British are gone, and all of you are there, proudly citizens of a republic.

It strikes me as really quite ironic that your words are equally attributable to what essentially was an occupation that only ended within living memory...

gobnaitolunacy

Here we go again, the Irish version of Godwin's Law.

tac foley

Tabnabs wrote: »

It strikes me as really quite ironic that your words are equally attributable to what essentially was an occupation that only ended within living memory...

Is this a gently-worded reproof from a mod? If so, please note that a number of others on this thread have also made the same point - without receiving a carefully-worded snottogram over it.

If you don't like what I wrote, then exercise your MOD powers and remove the post that offends you. But take note of all the others who also wrote similar posts about history having happened, the British having gone, but the Irish people still there, which were initally MY points.

tac

PS - last time I was in Hong Kong, I noticed a number of VR/GR post-boxes THERE, too.

Tabnabs

If you're offended by my post, the report button is your friend. I'm not a mod on this forum and have no more power than you have. I was simply pointing out the irony of your wording...

Fratton Fred

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Local An Post postman still uses a set of postbox keys with a brass key fob labelled 'Royal Mail' to this day!

TBH the old Victorian and Edwardian postboxes are a lot nicer looking than the modern sheet steel ones.

And a visit to the local sorting office reveals all the Royal Mail post bags as well! I think royal mail post boxes painted green is a nice representation of an Post!

on a serious note, what surprises me most is that no one has pulled these post boxes out and sold them. I'm sure a VR embossed post box must be worth a few quid.

gobnaitolunacy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

on a serious note, what surprises me most is that no one has pulled these post boxes out and sold them. I'm sure a VR embossed post box must be worth a few quid.

It's happened in the uk with some organisation behind it and boxes ending up on ebay, it's not unknown to happen here.

tac foley

Tabnabs wrote: »

If you're offended by my post, the report button is your friend. I'm not a mod on this forum and have no more power than you have. I was simply pointing out the irony of your wording...

Write a response to a post with your MOD header and to me you're a moderator.

To me it's no more 'ironic' than the fact that in spite of having your own language, you are writing on this thread in English.

We move on.

tac

da_hambo

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Local An Post postman still uses a set of postbox keys with a brass key fob labelled 'Royal Mail' to this day!

TBH the old Victorian and Edwardian postboxes are a lot nicer looking than the modern sheet steel ones.

Great thread op.

On the subject, I notice that An Post use Royal Mail sacks in their sorting offices. Ive spotted this over the years in Cork and on the east coast.

Does it cost that much to make up sacks with An Post on it?

As a Brit born Corkman it doesnt bother me at all, but noone else seemed to notice this.

gobnaitolunacy

da_hambo wrote: »

Great thread op.

On the subject, I notice that An Post use Royal Mail sacks in their sorting offices. Ive spotted this over the years in Cork and on the east coast.

Does it cost that much to make up sacks with An Post on it?

As a Brit born Corkman it doesnt bother me at all, but noone else seemed to notice this.

I'm assuming they come over here with post from the uk, and they just use them...one sack is as good as another.

Have a P&T bag with lettering in French on one side, so they do get around.

who the fug

going off topic but has any spotted any of these that pre date 1923 and would they have any markings

gobnaitolunacy

who the fug wrote: »

going off topic but has any spotted any of these that pre date 1923 and would they have any markings

Seen an RIC plaque once, but never a lantern.

Victor

Walking around Cambridge and Peterborougha few months ago, the red ones are a lot more noticeable as pieces of street furniture - being green is a nuisance. In France and several other countries, they are yellow.

who the fug wrote: »

going off topic but has any spotted any of these that pre date 1923 and would they have any markings

The first one I ever saw was in Blackrock about 23 years ago. Most are much more modern than that.

Jawgap

who the fug wrote: »

going off topic but has any spotted any of these that pre date 1923 and would they have any markings

Did they use laterns like that for RIC or DMP stations?

One thing they did bring back and then get rid of was the President's Mounted Escort also known as the Blue Hussars.

The official reasons for the disbandment were the cost of uniforms and that motorbikes would be more impressive than Irish horses!!!......makes you wonder why over 90% of the horses used by the Household Cavalry come from Ireland.

The unofficial reason seems to be related to the then Department of Defence's aversion to formations that were a bit too British. Their uniforms were a variation based on those of 8th King’s Royal Irish Hussars: blue tunic & breeches, yellow frogging & lace, and black sealskin busby with yellow-orange plume.

I'd say they should be brought back - 80 troopers on Irish chargers clippity-clopping down O'Connell Street on a sunny day.........that would be impressive!!

SpaceTime

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

I'm assuming they come over here with post from the uk, and they just use them...one sack is as good as another.

Have a P&T bag with lettering in French on one side, so they do get around.

Sounds like a Luxembourg Post bag. They still have a P&T to this day.

P&T or PTT were common in Europe at one stage including in Ireland right to until the early 80s

I think the French PTT brand is gone for a long time at this stage.

gobnaitolunacy

SpaceTime wrote: »

Sounds like a Luxembourg Post bag. They still have a P&T to this day.

P&T or PTT were common in Europe at one stage including in Ireland right to until the early 80s

No, it's got 'P&T' and 'DUBLIN' on t'other side.

(and I think it has the Irish ampersand that looks like a '7')

SpaceTime

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

No, it's got 'P&T' and 'DUBLIN' on t'other side.

That's pretty ancient then

At one stage French used to be used a lot for postal stuff though. Possibly still is.

who the fug

Ah P & T

Back in the day when they chucked junior infants out at two to wander the road home, my regular bids for freedom where interrupted by the postman and was delivered home to the mother in the back of a P&T van

Renault four vans if I remember correctly

tac foley

Victor wrote: »

Walking around Cambridge and Peterborough a few months ago

Shame on you! You should have dropped in on us - we only live a few miles down the road, between both places.

tac

gobnaitolunacy

Judgement Day wrote: »

As an aside, I have a rare collectable Irish pillar box for sale on Adverts.ie here: http://www.adverts.ie/other-antiques-collectables/irish-post-box-rare-miniature-collectable/3378075

Not quite Irish. Early pillar boxes were originally painted green, they changed to colour to Royal Mail red, reportedly as people tended to walk into them.

Besides an Irish box would have a BI-LINGUAL collection plate.:D

Judgement Day

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Not quite Irish. Early pillar boxes were originally painted green, they changed to colour to Royal Mail red, reportedly as people tended to walk into them.

Besides an Irish box would have a BI-LINGUAL collection plate.:D

Pedant!

ardmacha

You could have a bit of both
this might be useful in the 6 counties, you could post in the green one with Irish stamps and get the cheaper post.

tac foley

ardmacha wrote: »

You could have a bit of both
this might be useful in the 6 counties, you could post in the green one with Irish stamps and get the cheaper post.

Can't fool ME, Sir. That image comes from West Bengal, NOT Falls Road.

tac

pedroeibar1

who the fug wrote: »

Ah P & T

Back in the day when they chucked junior infants out at two to wander the road home, my regular bids for freedom where interrupted by the postman and was delivered home to the mother in the back of a P&T van

Renault four vans if I remember correctly

Yes, R4's in dayglo orange with a white band. My b-in-law bought an ex P7T one when he was a student in UCG.
And while we are off-topic on trivia, the only right hand drive car that is legal in the USA is the postal service van.