4 Vehicles to declare as being off the road

BlackWizard

I have a few vehicles that have been off the road for a while now.

I only found out today that I need to declare them as being off the road. But I find it very confusing because it sounds like I have to pay arrears of 3 months tax for the vehicles?

Vehicle
A) Off the road for a year and a half and will remain so
Destroyed in a motorbike crash and off the road indefinitely from last year
C) Off the road since middle of last year
D) Off the road since Jan and will stay off the road

Vehicle C, I would like to tax and use this year.

So I filled out RF100A for the four vehicles but this form is now obsolete?
https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF100A_en.pdf

I then got RF150 but it only has fields for declaring it off the road in future dates. What form do I need now?

I'm fed up with filling out forms. Also why was I not notified by the motortax office that I needed to do this. They know damn well that I have 3 vehicles off the road. All it takes is a simple email.

CiniO

BlackWizard wrote: »

I have a few vehicles that have been off the road for a while now.

I only found out today that I need to declare them as being off the road. But I find it very confusing because it sounds like I have to pay arrears of 3 months tax for the vehicles?

Vehicle
A) Off the road for a year and a half and will remain so
Destroyed in a motorbike crash and off the road indefinitely from last year
C) Off the road since middle of last year
D) Off the road since Jan and will stay off the road

Vehicle C, I would like to tax and use this year.

So I filled out RF100A for the four vehicles but this form is now obsolete?
https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF100A_en.pdf

I then got RF150 but it only has fields for declaring it off the road in future dates. What form do I need now?

I'm fed up with filling out forms. Also why was I not notified by the motortax office that I needed to do this. They know damn well that I have 3 vehicles off the road. All it takes is a simple email.

Form RF100A is not obsolete and it won't be for nearly 3 months.
You can still declare that your cars were off the road in the past using this form, and then you can use RF150 form to declare cars you intent to leave off the road in the future, or you can just tax those which you wish to have back on the road.

Also with vehicles which you are sure they won't be ever used on the road again, you don't need to bother doing anything.

macplaxton

Get four RF100A forms and four RF150 forms.

Make declarations for each vehicle on the RF100A forms from start of month during which they went off the road up to end June 2013. Get these stamped at a Garda station.

Make declarations for each vehicle on the RF100A forms from start of July 2013 until June 2013.

Submit all 8 forms to the local Motor Tax office, either over-the-counter or by post.

Get 4 receipts back for SORDs valid until end June 2013.

If you want to tax any before the SORD ends, no problem, just tax it and the SORD drops off. If you need to re-SORD them, you can do that during the last month of the current SORD.

See this post I made over is CCs for two examples: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85369972&postcount=97

You can do similar in August or September (adjust the date in the RF100A declaration by one more month, and the date in the RF150 by one more month).

dgt

CiniO wrote: »

Form RF100A is not obsolete and it won't be for nearly 3 months.
You can still declare that your cars were off the road in the past using this form, and then you can use RF150 form to declare cars you intent to leave off the road in the future, or you can just tax those which you wish to have back on the road.

Also with vehicles which you are sure they won't be ever used on the road again, you don't need to bother doing anything.

CiniO wrote: »

Also with vehicles which you are sure they won't be ever used on the road again, you don't need to bother doing anything.

CiniO wrote: »

Also with vehicles which you are sure they won't be ever used on the road again, you don't need to bother doing anything.

This, my good sir, has made my day :D:D

I have 3 to declare myself, father has 4 and mother has 1, we had to decide what to keep and what to bin!

Seem I can happily continue on with my 106 project so :cool:

macplaxton

Aye, but you have to be sure. If you just SORD them, you can change your mind later.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

Also with vehicles which you are sure they won't be ever used on the road again, you don't need to bother doing anything.

You sure about that? I thought the idea of this system was to remove any grey area; the car is either taxed or it is declared off the road.

BlackWizard

Cheers lads. I'll get filling out some more forms then.

traco

Latest info here and here, both sustems in paralled until Oct 1. From then on it must be decalered off the road in advance.

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/News/MainBody,33620,en.htm

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,33610,en.pdf

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

You sure about that?

Pretty much.

From this legislation doesn't come out that you have to do anything if you don't intend to use your vehicle anymore.

Also this is from motortax.ie website:

Q16. I have an old vehicle in the garage that hasn’t been used for years. Do I need to declare it off the road?
A16. If you think that, at any stage in the future, the car might be put back on the road then, yes, you will need to make a declaration during the transition period from 1 July 2013 to 30 September 2013 to avoid having to pay arrears, back to the date of expiry of the last motor tax licence, when the vehicle is being put back on the road. If you are absolutely certain that the vehicle will never go back on the road, then you need to do nothing.

I thought the idea of this system was to remove any grey area; the car is either taxed or it is declared off the road.

There never was any grey area nor there is any now.
It was always prohibited to use an untaxed vehicle, and whenever you do so, it's not grey area - it's breaking the law.

I amazed me from the very beginning why are they thinking about introducing new system which is hardly going to change anything, instead of just starting to enforce the existing law.
Like what was stopping them from heavily fining people who drive untaxed vehicles?
If they did that, there wouldn't be a need to change a system at all.
Simple - your tax expired - you are caught driving - you are heavily fined - over.
What's the point in some declarations, etc...


Only place for grey area I can see from this (also from motortax.ie website).

Q15. What if I’m due to have an NCT while my car is off the road?
A15. A vehicle may be used during the period of a non-use declaration in two cases:
to bring it to and from a test centre for the test; or
to bring it for repair after a re-test, or back to where you are keeping it while it is off the road after the repairs. This option may only be used where an appointment has already been made for a re-test.
The same rules apply to roadworthiness testing for commercial vehicles.
If you are bringing the vehicle to a test centre or to or from repairs after a test failure, it would be advisable to carry a copy of the appointment for the test or re-test with you.

This should mean that you can drive your untaxed car for above purposes.
However I couldn't find anywhere any legislation covering this.
But if it's true this is a grey area open for abuse.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

I amazed me from the very beginning why are they thinking about introducing new system which is hardly going to change anything, instead of just starting to enforce the existing law.
Like what was stopping them from heavily fining people who drive untaxed vehicles?

It makes it massively easier to enforce to be fair; under the new system the car is either taxed or it is declared off the road, so if a car is not taxed and it has not been declared off the road then it can be assumed that the owner is negligent in some way and can be chased without needing to get the Gardai involved at all. This is not possible with a system where the declaration is made retrospectively. Whether or not they plan on implementing such a system I dont know, but it would seem foolish to change to a declaration in advance and then not take full advantage of it.

Its why I find it a bit odd that all registered cars do not need to be declared off the road. It still leaves a bit of a grey area open which does not need to be there.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

It makes it massively easier to enforce to be fair; under the new system the car is either taxed or it is declared off the road, so if a car is not taxed and it has not been declared off the road then it can be assumed that the owner is negligent in some way and can be chased without needing to get the Gardai involved at all.

That's obviously true.
But...

Firstly that's not how the new system works. In system just introduced there is nothing stopping anyone just not to pay the tax and not declare the car, and there are no consequences of doing so.
Only if such person will decide later to pay the tax, arrears will have to be paid.
But in fact - it's not going to happen as there is another way out - just change the registered owner even to your spouse of friend.

So in fact, new system won't change much.

This is not possible with a system where the declaration is made retrospectively. Whether or not they plan on implementing such a system I dont know, but it would seem foolish to change to a declaration in advance and then not take full advantage of it.

But that's exactly what they've done. Changed a system and didn't take full advantage of it.

Its why I find it a bit odd that all registered cars do not need to be declared off the road. It still leaves a bit of a grey area open which does not need to be there.

I disagree it's a grey area. People who will not pay the tax and drive will be braking the law. It's pure black - no grey.


My point was thought, that in theory new system is meant to force people to declare their cars off the road in advance and then if they are caught driving issue heavy fines.
What I can't understand is why couldn't they issue heavy fines with the old system for drivers being caught driving untaxed?
This would be much simpler and effective, wouldn't it?

DIESEL TOM

what happen if you declare you car off the road for 12 month. but then things change and you need the car back on the road now. let say 5 month into 12 month declare can it be done with out paying back tax ?

CiniO

DIESEL TOM wrote: »

what happen if you declare you car off the road for 12 month. but then things change and you need the car back on the road now. let say 5 month into 12 month declare can it be done with out paying back tax ?

Even if car is declared off the road, you can tax if anytime from the beginning of the current month, and this will automatically void the declaration from then.
No a bother.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

That's obviously true.
But...

Firstly that's not how the new system works. In system just introduced there is nothing stopping anyone just not to pay the tax and not declare the car, and there are no consequences of doing so.
Only if such person will decide later to pay the tax, arrears will have to be paid.
But in fact - it's not going to happen as there is another way out - just change the registered owner even to your spouse of friend.

So in fact, new system won't change much.

But that's exactly what they've done. Changed a system and didn't take full advantage of it.

Knowing Ireland they will probably make a half arsed effort with this system and wont take full advantage of it, but the system is at least now in place for someone with sense to utilise properly, so who knows how it might change in the future. In theory they have now made it very easy for themselves; car tax renewal arrives, give owner a certain amount of time to renew/declare car off road (say a month for arguments sake), after time has passed issue fine for non-payment of tax. With this system the whole thing can be automated. Whether or not they will use it I dont know, but if I can work out how best to use it... :P

CiniO wrote: »

I disagree it's a grey area. People who will not pay the tax and drive will be braking the law. It's pure black - no grey.

When I say grey area I mean in terms of taxed or not; in a perfect solution the car is either taxed or it is declared off the road (or scrapped/exported); its black and white, there is no other option. By not having to declare cars that will not be used again it introduces a sort of limbo state where a car is not taxed but also not declared off the road, and nobody knows what the story with it is (much like the nonsense system that we have had in place up until now). Much easier just to get people to declare all cars off the road, regardless of whether they plan on using them for road use again or not.

To be honest, a lot of what I am talking about is probably hypothetical and would depend on the system being used to the full of its capabilities, but it would make life so much easier if we could take the Gardai out of the equation altogether and remove the need to pull people over to check if their car is taxed or not. Of course, there is still the issue of someone who is driving a car that has been declared off the road, but the only way to deal with that is with heavy punishment (four figure fine first offence, jail time after that).

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

Knowing Ireland they will probably make a half arsed effort with this system and wont take full advantage of it, but the system is at least now in place for someone with sense to utilise properly, so who knows how it might change in the future. In theory they have now made it very easy for themselves; car tax renewal arrives, give owner a certain amount of time to renew/declare car off road (say a month for arguments sake), after time has passed issue fine for non-payment of tax. With this system the whole thing can be automated. Whether or not they will use it I dont know, but if I can work out how best to use it... :P

Yes, but the thing is that new legislation doesn't accomodate for such thing as fining for doing nothing (not declaring car off the road and not taxing it).
According to that legislation it's not illegal to do so.

When I say grey area I mean in terms of taxed or not; in a perfect solution the car is either taxed or it is declared off the road (or scrapped/exported); its black and white, there is no other option. By not having to declare cars that will not be used again it introduces a sort of limbo state where a car is not taxed but also not declared off the road, and nobody knows what the story with it is (much like the nonsense system that we have had in place up until now). Much easier just to get people to declare all cars off the road, regardless of whether they plan on using them for road use again or not.

To be honest, a lot of what I am talking about is probably hypothetical and would depend on the system being used to the full of its capabilities, but it would make life so much easier if we could take the Gardai out of the equation altogether and remove the need to pull people over to check if their car is taxed or not. Of course, there is still the issue of someone who is driving a car that has been declared off the road, but the only way to deal with that is with heavy punishment (four figure fine first offence, jail time after that).

To be honest you can't take Gardai out of the equation altogether, as we need them on the road.
IMHO there is way too few roadchecks in this country.
From my experience, I'm something like 50 times more likely to be pulled over by police in Poland than by gardai in Ireland.
Roadchecks should be there to check if people are obeying the law (insurance, NCT, alcohol, roadworthiness, driving licence, etc, and also obviously tax).

But instead of making complicated system, it would be much easier just to heavily fine people driving without tax. Scrap any declarations, because what's the point.

Having someone to declare the car will be of the road, and only if he is caught driving it when it's declared the fine him heavily.
That's a way around to do the same thing just by heavily fining people who drive untaxed vehicles.
Why do something more complicated if it can be simple?

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

But instead of making complicated system, it would be much easier just to heavily fine people driving without tax. Scrap any declarations, because what's the point.

Having someone to declare the car will be of the road, and only if he is caught driving it when it's declared the fine him heavily.
That's a way around to do the same thing just by heavily fining people who drive untaxed vehicles.
Why do something more complicated if it can be simple?

The problem with increasing fines is that it still relies on the person being caught, which is the problem with current system in that most people know that for the most part you can drive around with your tax out for months and you would be downright unlucky to get caught. Even if you were to double the number of Gardai and checkpoints on the road chances are the hitrate for catching offenders is likely to be quite low (especially in rural areas where its pretty easy to avoid checkpoints). The declaration in advance system removes the need to catch the driver; you are either taxed or you are off the road, and if you are neither then a fine can be issued automatically.

Im not saying that we get rid of checkpoints altogether; they are obviously still a valid and important way of catching a multitude of offences, but they are far from foolproof, whereas an automated system for tax could be foolproof (or as near as you are going to get, which is a lot better than what we currently have).

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

The problem with increasing fines is that it still relies on the person being caught, which is the problem with current system in that most people know that for the most part you can drive around with your tax out for months and you would be downright unlucky to get caught. Even if you were to double the number of Gardai and checkpoints on the road chances are the hitrate for catching offenders is likely to be quite low (especially in rural areas where its pretty easy to avoid checkpoints). The declaration in advance system removes the need to catch the driver; you are either taxed or you are off the road, and if you are neither then a fine can be issued automatically.

See there's a little flaw in your logic here.
You say that heavy fines for driving untaxed car rely on person being caught - of course that's true.
But new system which you are saying about relies on exactly the same - being caught.
Think about it - what's stopping someone to declare the car will be off the road and keep driving?
Until he is caught, there will be no consequences.

You will probably say, that penalty for driving car which was declared off the road should be massively big and that would make a difference.
But what was stopping them to apply the same massive big fines for anyone driving untaxed car?

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

See there's a little flaw in your logic here.
You say that heavy fines for driving untaxed car rely on person being caught - of course that's true.
But new system which you are saying about relies on exactly the same - being caught.
Think about it - what's stopping someone to declare the car will be off the road and keep driving?
Until he is caught, there will be no consequences.

You will probably say, that penalty for driving car which was declared off the road should be massively big and that would make a difference.
But what was stopping them to apply the same massive big fines for anyone driving untaxed car?

You will still get people who declare the car off the road and drive it of course, but I cant see the number being anything like as high as the amount of people who "forget"/dont bother paying their car tax at the moment. Right now its very easy to not bother taxing the car for a few and then going in to get the form signed knowing that you have not been caught. Its a whole different story when you make a fraudulent declaration in advance and then have to spend the rest of your time driving around watching your back in case you come across a checkpoint/Garda.

BlackWizard

CiniO wrote: »

Even if car is declared off the road, you can tax if anytime from the beginning of the current month, and this will automatically void the declaration from then.
No a bother.

I thought you had to pay 3 back months of tax? This is great if we don't.

CiniO

BlackWizard wrote: »

I thought you had to pay 3 back months of tax? This is great if we don't.

Only possibility where you are required to pay any tax even if you don't use the car or don't intend to, is when you don't declare it off the road in advance.

F.e. your tax runs out on end of October.
You say you want not use it in November, and then tax it from beginning of December.
If you don't make a declaration before 1st November that you intend to keep your car off the road from November (it can be for 3, 6 or 12 months but it doesn't matter in this case), then when you go in December to tax it, you will have to pay arrears for November.

Also in other case where you wouldn't intend to tax your car in December, but f.e. wanted to keep it off the road for the whole year from November, but didn't make a declaration before November, but f.e. go there in December to make declaration, then you will have to pay arrears for November, pay full 3 months tax for December, January and February, and only then from March you will be able to declare it off the road.

mgbgt1978

Q16. I have an old vehicle in the garage that hasn’t been used for years. Do I need to declare it off the road?
A16. If you think that, at any stage in the future, the car might be put back on the road then, yes, you will need to make a declaration during the transition period from 1 July 2013 to 30 September 2013 to avoid having to pay arrears, back to the date of expiry of the last motor tax licence, when the vehicle is being put back on the road. If you are absolutely certain that the vehicle will never go back on the road, then you need to do nothing.

The above (taken from motortax.ie) is slightly confusing. I have an old '78 Mini that has not been on the road for the past 9 or 10 years. I bought it last November as a resto project (very little done to it since ).
Today I posted an RF150 to the local motor tax office....wondering should I have also included a Garda stamped RF100A. But as that is really a tax renewal form would I leave it blank apart from the Garda section and the off-the-road from date of purchase details ??????
I suppose all will be revealed when the tax office get back to me and tell me they haven't a clue either.

CiniO

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Q16. I have an old vehicle in the garage that hasn’t been used for years. Do I need to declare it off the road?
A16. If you think that, at any stage in the future, the car might be put back on the road then, yes, you will need to make a declaration during the transition period from 1 July 2013 to 30 September 2013 to avoid having to pay arrears, back to the date of expiry of the last motor tax licence, when the vehicle is being put back on the road. If you are absolutely certain that the vehicle will never go back on the road, then you need to do nothing.

The above (taken from motortax.ie) is slightly confusing. I have an old '78 Mini that has not been on the road for the past 9 or 10 years. I bought it last November as a resto project (very little done to it since ).
Today I posted an RF150 to the local motor tax office....wondering should I have also included a Garda stamped RF100A. But as that is really a tax renewal form would I leave it blank apart from the Garda section and the off-the-road from date of purchase details ??????
I suppose all will be revealed when the tax office get back to me and tell me they haven't a clue either.

In your case you need to put up two declarations.
1. RF100A form declaring you didn't use your car for the last 9 year signed by garda.
2. RF150 form declaring you won't be using your vehicle from now on for next 12 months.

And you will have to keep filling in RF150 form every year.

mgbgt1978

CiniO wrote: »

1. RF100A form declaring you didn't use your car for the last 9 year signed by garda.

I only bought it last November Cinio.....bought from a dealer who had it out-the-back for a few years. The guy who owned it previously could well be deceased by now.

Also the timing would have to be precise as well . The RF100A only allows you to declare that the vehicle was off the road up until the end of a particular month. you would therefore have to get it stamped on the last day of a month and send this (along with the RF150) , with the RF150 then dated from the following day....the 1st of the next month.

MissFire

Just filled in rf100a form for past three months as car been off road. I'm going to use it now for next two weeks (to get ready to sell, nct etc) but will use Rf150 to declare it off road from August onwards.. do you know can I just tax it for the month of July or will I have to tax it for three months, even though I'll be declaring OTR???

Del2005

djimi wrote: »

When I say grey area I mean in terms of taxed or not; in a perfect solution the car is either taxed or it is declared off the road (or scrapped/exported); its black and white, there is no other option. By not having to declare cars that will not be used again it introduces a sort of limbo state where a car is not taxed but also not declared off the road, and nobody knows what the story with it is (much like the nonsense system that we have had in place up until now). Much easier just to get people to declare all cars off the road, regardless of whether they plan on using them for road use again or not.

The problem here is how many thousands of extra cars would this bring into a system when they don't need to be. I know we've 2 cars that'll never end up on the road again, the old man doesn't like getting rid of stuff, and how many other hen houses or bridges are there lying around farms or in people's garages that they just won't scrap but can never again.

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Also the timing would have to be precise as well . The RF100A only allows you to declare that the vehicle was off the road up until the end of a particular month. you would therefore have to get it stamped on the last day of a month and send this (along with the RF150) , with the RF150 then dated from the following day....the 1st of the next month.

If you get the RF100A done today it'll cover you to the end of June. Then submit the RF150 from 1st July, or today, and send it off. I doubt that they be sending fines out to anyone who submits the forms before the deadline it'll only be after that issues will arise.

CiniO

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Also the timing would have to be precise as well . The RF100A only allows you to declare that the vehicle was off the road up until the end of a particular month. you would therefore have to get it stamped on the last day of a month

You can not make a declaration that you didn't use the car to the end of the month in this particular month.
F.e. you can't declare on 31st of July that you didn't use your car to the end of July. You have to wait until 1st August to make such declaration.

and send this (along with the RF150) , with the RF150 then dated from the following day....the 1st of the next month.

During transition period you can use RF150 form to declare the car will be off the road in the same month you are declaring.
F.e. you can declare in the middle of July, that your car will be (was and is) off the road from the 1st July.
But that's only during tranisition period.
From October it won't be possible and declaration will need to be made beforehand.
So f.e. if you want to have your car off the road from 1st October, you need to declare it on 30th September the latest.