Four Car 22000 Trial

The_Wanderer

As part of a trial to test four car 22000 set operation. 6 car unit 22045 has been temporarily reduced to a 4 car set. It operated a trial from Laois Traincare to Thurles today and the return working was pictured at Clonkeen Bridge.
http://smu.gs/12GmJyI

The Wanderer.

dowlingm

Could have had all the feckin trials they wanted a couple of years ago when was it 22047 lost a unit for a while and the whole thing was stored? And how will this bright idea affect the current operation of 3 car sets into 90m platforms? Great for the Wicklow line though.

Temp101

I understand we are going to see 4-piece sets sent out instead of 6-piece on some workings. The displaced units will end up replacing some Mk.4 sets which are then being mothballed in Inchicore. The Mk.4 storage has already started.

corktina

the demise of the mk4 isn't all that unexpected I guess.

What will the fleet disposition be after the changes? How many 6 piece left for instance?

bikeman1

I presume 2 x 4 car 22s can fit on most Intercity platforms?

dowlingm

There will be a possible issue in a few places like on the Westport line where the loop platforms are only 90m long. There are some WRC services operated by 22Ks at the moment and again those are 90m. Obviously it will take time to remarshal all the sets so *hopefully* there will be time to sort this out properly.

LXFlyer

corktina wrote: »

the demise of the mk4 isn't all that unexpected I guess.

What will the fleet disposition be after the changes? How many 6 piece left for instance?

Presumably either none or maybe the 5 non-premier class sets will retain their current formation.

LXFlyer

bikeman1 wrote: »

I presume 2 x 4 car 22s can fit on most Intercity platforms?

dowlingm wrote: »

There will be a possible issue in a few places like on the Westport line where the loop platforms are only 90m long. There are some WRC services operated by 22Ks at the moment and again those are 90m. Obviously it will take time to remarshal all the sets so *hopefully* there will be time to sort this out properly.

2 x 4 car would be 186m - that is too long for most of the Galway, Westport, Waterford, Tralee and Sligo lines.

They really only would be usable to/from Cork or Limerick.

But remember that there will be a significant number of 3 piece sets remaining which means a 4 and 3 piece set could operate in combination which would work on all routes (except Rosslare of course).

Assuming all of the 6 piece sets are converted to 4 piece, and the spare coaches used to strengthen 3 piece sets to 4 piece that would leave:

10 4 car Premier Class sets
35 4 car sets
18 3 car sets

That would compare with the existing:
10 6 car Premier Class sets
5 6 car High Capacity sets
48 3 car sets

Temp101

I don't see there will be platform length issues as I doubt we'll be seeing too many 8-piece sets. I suspect the extent of reformations will be limited to permitting 2 or 3 Mk.4 sets to be replaced on a semi-permanent basis by ICR's.

flyingsnail

Temp101 wrote: »

I don't see there will be platform length issues as I doubt we'll be seeing too many 8-piece sets. I suspect the extent of reformations will be limited to permitting 2 or 3 Mk.4 sets to be replaced on a semi-permanent basis by ICR's.

I thought the purpose of the 4 piece set was to increase capacity on the Rosslare?

bikeman1

Well the 07:00 Dundalk - Connolly is rammed full every morning as a 6 car 22.

4 cars would be good on the Kerry road where car sets don't cope on busy weekends.

4+3 would be ideal on some Waterford line services judging by the recent thread about over crowding.

Also 2 x 4 car sets would be good for GAA / match specials where they know they can fit on the platform.

Why selective door operation has not been installed is beyond me. That would solve a lot of issues on the Westport line when crossing trains.

I know I am looking at big trains when in reality they will be mainly used to further reduce capacity on many services.

LXFlyer

flyingsnail wrote: »

I thought the purpose of the 4 piece set was to increase capacity on the Rosslare?

I think that is purely a by-product of this - it has far more to do with cost reduction where possible.

davidlacey

corktina wrote: »

the demise of the mk4 isn't all that unexpected I guess.

What will the fleet disposition be after the changes? How many 6 piece left for instance?

Could the mark ivs be better used to replace an ageing DD Fleet on the enterprise service, obviously with a few modifications?

Captain Chaos

davidlacey wrote: »

Could the mark ivs be better used to replace an ageing DD Fleet on the enterprise service, obviously with a few modifications?

That would be one option with some problems though. NIR is broke and seeing as the Enterprise is a joint operation they would need training in operating sets and crew training and maintenance, also full route clearance to York Road would be needed. So far the Mk4s are route cleared into all of Connolly platforms 2-7, the wash road and yard. TPWS fitted into the cabs of the DVTs to be used on the route etc. Change out the real time digital maps of the Cork route with the Belfast one.

The DD sets as is are coming up to major refurb and overhaul time. There is talk of them returning to France for the work on a rotation basis and a Mk4 set or two would be ideal to fill in.

flyingsnail

Captain Chaos wrote: »

That would be one option with some problems though. NIR is broke and seeing as the Enterprise is a joint operation they would need training in operating sets and crew training and maintenance, also full route clearance to York Road would be needed. So far the Mk4s are route cleared into all of Connolly platforms 2-7, the wash road and yard. TPWS fitted into the cabs of the DVTs to be used on the route etc. Change out the real time digital maps of the Cork route with the Belfast one.

The DD sets as is are coming up to major refurb and overhaul time. There is talk of them returning to France for the work on a rotation basis and a Mk4 set or two would be ideal to fill in.

If the DD are to be rotated out for overhaul, say one set at a time then practically I think one of the 6 car ICR that already has TPWS fitted would be the best option. The only extra work would be to commission the TPWS and if the set was kept on a link that is always staffed by Irish Rail then no extra training for NIR crews would be required.

Jamie2k9

flyingsnail wrote: »

If the DD are to be rotated out for overhaul, say one set at a time then practically I think one of the 6 car ICR that already has TPWS fitted would be the best option. The only extra work would be to commission the TPWS and if the set was kept on a link that is always staffed by Irish Rail then no extra training for NIR crews would be required.

No 6 car ICR has TPWS fitted, only sets 1 to 6.

Temp101

Seems like different stories on the extent of the reformations are abroad, depending who you talk to. Another forum also backs up lxflyer's view earlier in this thread, that the amount of reformations will be extensive. As to the use of Mk.4's in replacement of DD's on the Belfast, apparently someone is trying to get that past DRD in NI on the basis that the work on the Mk.4's will not cost as much as refurb of the DD's. The 230 incident could be timely for the advocates of that scheme!

demanufactured

Why do they have to "trial"a 4 car set , sure its simply a case of taking out 2 of the cars and off you go...

Cookie_Monster

demanufactured wrote: »

Why do they have to "trial"a 4 car set , sure its simply a case of taking out 2 of the cars and off you go...

accel, decel and momentum characteristics I suppose??
but then how did they ever deal with carriages and differing length trains...

LXFlyer

demanufactured wrote: »

Why do they have to "trial"a 4 car set , sure its simply a case of taking out 2 of the cars and off you go...

Make sure all the on-board computer systems work correctly?

They are not simply carriages joined together anymore.

The_Wanderer

lxflyer wrote: »

Make sure all the on-board computer systems work correctly?

They are not simply carriages joined together anymore.

Plus it requires RSC approval.

After the 4 car trial with 22045 on Wednesday 3rd July, vehicle 22445 was re-inserted into the set to trial a 5 car formation (again to sign off paperwork for RSC approval). The set operated a trial to Ballybrophy and the return working is pictured at Clonkeen Bridge.

Also Loco 072 operated Portlaoise - Portarlington Light Engine to bring a panel train to Wexford for Engineering Works at Wexford Yard.
http://smu.gs/12JnSpl
The Wanderer.