Starting an Irish course tomorrow and dying inside already

MaryKirwan

Have any of you ever taken the Gaelchultúr course in Clare Street? I'm starting it tomorrow and I'm super nervous. It's only the first day but it's a two hour class so that can't all be taken up by the teacher outlining stuff.

I want to prepare so that I don't make a fool of myself but I don't know any particular things to brush up on, other than personal stuff if they do that "go around the room and tell us a bit about yourself" thing. Which always makes me nervous, even in English.

jamesnp

The main thing is not to worry about making a fool of yourself; you won't. Everyone will be in the same boat. The only way to learn is to make mistakes, don't be afraid of making them!

I haven't been to the Gaelchultúr courses myself, but I hear they're good and pretty chilled out.

Go n-éirí leat!

-jp

mr chips

I've had Gaelchultúr deliver a short (weekend) course for me in the past. Good stuff, good teachers and well able to target their material to adult learners.

As for the making a fool of yourself stuff - it's funny how kids almost NEVER have this. Six year olds in a gaelscoil don't give a flying one if they make a mistake or can't think of the word in Irish - they'll just substitute it and batter on, e.g. "chaill mé mo football" etc. They also acquire fluency far more readily than adults do. I know that this is primarily due to neurological "receptiveness", for want of a better word (it's late & I'm tired!) but I reckon adult learners can be their own worst enemies and often hold themselves back due to a misplaced sense of self-consciousness.

Honestly - get stuck in, jump in with both feet and have a laugh! If it helps, take an early opportunity to announce to the class/to the tutor that you don't care if asking even basic questions makes you "look stupid" (which it won't) so long as it helps you learn. The teacher will respect you for it and appreciate your pragmatism - plus you'll probably encourage the other adult learners who feel exactly the same way you do, i.e. most of them.

theproud

I did the Gaelchultur course in February for 10 weeks. They do make you say a bit about yourself, I didnt like this either, but they try to get you talking and it's only a couple of lines. After that most of the activities will be in pairs or groups, though on some of the activities you'll be asked to summarise what you've found out in your game/ activity etc

I was very much like you when I went to the first one, but honestly it gets easier as the weeks go by and you get to know people.

The teachers are good and friendly. And everyone is in the same boat, everyone will be anxious about messing up, all I can say is if you push through it it really does become easier and you start to enjoy it.

I don't know what level class you are going too but if its beginners or lower intermediate then they follow the plan of the books they sell, so go to the website, check out the contents page of the books and generally that is what you'll be doing the next week (although they do skip 4-5). The first lesson will definitely be about introducing yourself, talking about your life etc.

Good luck

MaryKirwan

theproud wrote: »

I did the Gaelchultur course in February for 10 weeks. They do make you say a bit about yourself, I didnt like this either, but they try to get you talking and it's only a couple of lines. After that most of the activities will be in pairs or groups, though on some of the activities you'll be asked to summarise what you've found out in your game/ activity etc

I was very much like you when I went to the first one, but honestly it gets easier as the weeks go by and you get to know people.

The teachers are good and friendly. And everyone is in the same boat, everyone will be anxious about messing up, all I can say is if you push through it it really does become easier and you start to enjoy it.

I don't know what level class you are going too but if its beginners or lower intermediate then they follow the plan of the books they sell, so go to the website, check out the contents page of the books and generally that is what you'll be doing the next week (although they do skip 4-5). The first lesson will definitely be about introducing yourself, talking about your life etc.

Good luck

I don't even like doing that in English o_o Thank you, now I know to prepare that a bit in my mind before I go tonight. I'm going to the course that's specifically aimed at preparing you for the Hibernia interview, and they said ideally you should have a decent grasp but just not have had the opportunity to speak it since the LC. I know yours was a bit different but did you find that the other learners were really good and better than lower intermediate? I'm afraid of being the worst one there. I've been reading Irish articles and watching TG4 every day for the last year but I still feel terrible at it.

deirdremf

There's no need to talk about yourslef - make up a personality and talk about them, not you.
Lots of people like talking aboutr themsleves, their family etrc, and so it's an easy way to break the ice. But the intention is to get you talking, not to pry into your affairs. So if there is anything you don't want to say, well - don't say it. Invent something else instead. If you ever get picked up on it, just tell them that you always invent stuff for use in classes.

pog it

MaryKirwan wrote: »

I don't even like doing that in English o_o Thank you, now I know to prepare that a bit in my mind before I go tonight. I'm going to the course that's specifically aimed at preparing you for the Hibernia interview, and they said ideally you should have a decent grasp but just not have had the opportunity to speak it since the LC. I know yours was a bit different but did you find that the other learners were really good and better than lower intermediate? I'm afraid of being the worst one there. I've been reading Irish articles and watching TG4 every day for the last year but I still feel terrible at it.

Tell me you're not doing the Hibernia interview this month, surely?

They will naturally expect you to have a standard in Irish such that you would be able to teach national school children right up to 12!

MaryKirwan

pog it wrote: »

Tell me you're not doing the Hibernia interview this month, surely?

They will naturally expect you to have a standard in Irish such that you would be able to teach national school children right up to 12!

This month or next, why?

pog it

MaryKirwan wrote: »

This month or next, why?

You have been on this forum for at least a year now and yet have made very little progress in Irish.

And you want to teach in primary school.

You have a responsibility to those pupils you will be paid to teach (should you get a job), their parents and the taxpayer, etc. to actually do a good job and the fact that you have done so little to prepare yourself for your new career is disgusting.

When those pupils find themselves with very little Irish going into secondary school and in later years, they will remember you so you had better start making a proper effort. Hopefully the interviewers are getting stricter now. Some of us are fed up with the pathetic standards you people apply to primary teaching.

MaryKirwan

pog it wrote: »

You have been on this forum for at least a year now and yet have made very little progress in Irish.

And you want to teach in primary school.

You have a responsibility to those pupils you will be paid to teach (should you get a job), their parents and the taxpayer, etc. to actually do a good job and the fact that you have done so little to prepare yourself for your new career is disgusting.

When those pupils find themselves with very little Irish going into secondary school and in later years, they will remember you so you had better start making a proper effort. Hopefully the interviewers are getting stricter now. Some of us are fed up with the pathetic standards you people apply to primary teaching.

Pog it, I come here to ask questions that I don't know the answer to, or things I think I know but want to be sure about. I watch TG4 and read articles and spend time studying consistently week to week. Languages just aren't my forte. As such, you might spend a lot of time studying a particular subject and learn slower than someone else putting the same amount of time in, and it's not that you don't care or haven't tried, it's just that it's not a subject you're naturally good at. Also, Irish is just one subject. Not being terrific at Irish doesn't mean that I would be a bad teacher. You're honing in on one particular thing I would be teaching. I don't understand why you would call my preparation "disgusting" or assume haven't bothered myself. You said yourself I've been here in or around a year. I'm taking a night class and trying my best and you just casually tried to tear away any shadow of confidence I had. Seriously, I don't even know what to say about you. I know the way Irish is taught and the teachers who teach it have a bad reputation but I'm doing consistent work on this so that I can get into a course that will help me improve further. They teach Irish as a subject in this 2 year course and you're sent to the Gaeltacht for a few weeks. I'll have improved a lot more by then. You're saying these things like I'm going to be a teacher next month or something. And I was able to hold a conversation as well as anyone at the night course I'm taking.

pog it

MaryKirwan wrote: »

Pog it, I come here to ask questions that I don't know the answer to, or things I think I know but want to be sure about. I watch TG4 and read articles and spend time studying consistently week to week. Languages just aren't my forte. As such, you might spend a lot of time studying a particular subject and learn slower than someone else putting the same amount of time in, and it's not that you don't care or haven't tried, it's just that it's not a subject you're naturally good at. Also, Irish is just one subject. Not being terrific at Irish doesn't mean that I would be a bad teacher. You're honing in on one particular thing I would be teaching. I don't understand why you would call my preparation "disgusting" or assume haven't bothered myself. You said yourself I've been here in or around a year. I'm taking a night class and trying my best and you just casually tried to tear away any shadow of confidence I had. Seriously, I don't even know what to say about you. I know the way Irish is taught and the teachers who teach it have a bad reputation but I'm doing consistent work on this so that I can get into a course that will help me improve further. They teach Irish as a subject in this 2 year course and you're sent to the Gaeltacht for a few weeks. I'll have improved a lot more by then. You're saying these things like I'm going to be a teacher next month or something. And I was able to hold a conversation as well as anyone at the night course I'm taking.

Which is sad given that those people are intending to study to become a primary school teacher. And presuming they qualify within the 18 months, etc. then that's it. It's a busy year of study- you won't have the time to put the work into Irish once you start it as you will be studying other things, teacher practice, etc.


Not getting personal here but with a truly consistent effort over a year you would be relatively fluent by now. Irish wasn't my top ability when I was in school either but I just studied the grammar, asked thousands of questions here (hence my high posting rate) and I got on in it.

MaryKirwan

pog it wrote: »

Which is sad given that those people are intending to study to become a primary school teacher. And presuming they qualify within the 18 months, etc. then that's it. It's a busy year of study- you won't have the time to put the work into Irish once you start it as you will be studying other things, teacher practice, etc.


Not getting personal here but with a truly consistent effort over a year you would be relatively fluent by now. Irish wasn't my top ability when I was in school either but I just studied the grammar, asked thousands of questions here (hence my high posting rate) and I got on in it.

Ah, I know you're not trying to get personal. It's just that teaching is the only thing I really want to do. I only moved to higher level Irish in 5th year and my teacher wanted me to drop down to ordinary for the Leaving Cert. Even wrote a letter to my parents to say I would probably fail if I took the HL exam. And this was after her sister had given me grinds for about 4 months :l So I know I suck. I can learn vocabulary with ease but the grammar just doesn't stick at all. I plan on learning it forevermore though, even if and when I do get to be a teacher. I can't even remember much about Irish from when I was in primary school. I remember learning the verb tenses, and having to write about certain topics like "mo deireadh seachtaine". I know my aimsir caite, láithreach and fháistineach well. We didn't learn the modh coinníollach until secondary. Maybe it's just that the teachers I had weren't very good either, but I was just thinking that whatever we did up to 6th class was straightforward enough. It's either keep trying my best and meet Hibernia's standards/the school I get to work for's standards, or I don't, OR pick another career o_o But I can't think of a single other thing I want to do. I suppose if I don't get to be a teacher I'd go into something to do with helping animals. As it is I have 15+ injured snails in my house that all have names and that I can identify by face alone. This is perhaps why my language learnin' skills are lacking. Snail facial feature appreciation...skills? :cool:

MaryKirwan

pog it wrote: »

Which is sad given that those people are intending to study to become a primary school teacher. And presuming they qualify within the 18 months, etc. then that's it. It's a busy year of study- you won't have the time to put the work into Irish once you start it as you will be studying other things, teacher practice, etc.


Not getting personal here but with a truly consistent effort over a year you would be relatively fluent by now. Irish wasn't my top ability when I was in school either but I just studied the grammar, asked thousands of questions here (hence my high posting rate) and I got on in it.

What would you suggest though, anyway? If you were me, would you keep trying if it was what you really wanted, or do somethin' else?

pog it

MaryKirwan wrote: »

What would you suggest though, anyway? If you were me, would you keep trying if it was what you really wanted, or do somethin' else?

If you are truly and utterly struggling with the language and have drawn a blank I'd get some one to one tuition for a few classes to get myself off to the right start, work really hard, and then go back to self learning when I was confident enough.

There is a coursebook called 'Learning Irish' that a lot of people, not just me, would recommend. It's in libraries and online and I would just use that and then ask online about anything there I can't get my head around.

Also, a good dictionary and grammar book and that's all you need.

You have the intelligence to do it so it's just a matter of doing it justice. If people like you were to make a real effort you would be changing the system so you have a lot of power in your hands to be honest.

MaryKirwan

pog it wrote: »

If you are truly and utterly struggling with the language and have drawn a blank I'd get some one to one tuition for a few classes to get myself off to the right start, work really hard, and then go back to self learning when I was confident enough.

There is a coursebook called 'Learning Irish' that a lot of people, not just me, would recommend. It's in libraries and online and I would just use that and then ask online about anything there I can't get my head around.

Also, a good dictionary and grammar book and that's all you need.

You have the intelligence to do it so it's just a matter of doing it justice. If people like you were to make a real effort you would be changing the system so you have a lot of power in your hands to be honest.

Ah, Learning Irish was recommended to me here before, but they were all out at The Book Depository and another website I tried. I'll find it on another website if it's really that good. I suppose I naively thought I'd just read whatever I came across and pick up on the grammar over time without a grammar book. The only educational Irish books I have are a dictionary and a book of dirty words and slang :l. I agree with you that Irish education is severely lacking. I remember having a teacher that just gave us a word search with Irish words and then left the room.

pog it

Only one of my teachers at primary school had any clue and believe me is a celebrated teacher now. The rest of them just get bad-mouthed for how useless they were- wonder if they realise?

They def have Learning Irish in Eason's and in Hodges Figgis in Dawson St. It comes with CDs which are absolutely brilliant and it pretty much starts right from the beginning, though it does say it is best if you have learned Irish at school which you have so it's perfect for you.

The small Christian Brothers 'New Irish Grammar' is terrific and should cover everything you need! Mine has a blue cover with a cross on the front, Think I've seen it in Eason's. I had mine from school though. It's for sale online here too http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1057

Best of luck and apologies if I was in any way hurtful, or anything. I can promise though that I'll try to help as much as possible whenever I'm on boards. Loads of others there too are amazing help. It was crucial to me at the beginning when I went back to it!

MaryKirwan

pog it wrote: »

Only one of my teachers at primary school had any clue and believe me is a celebrated teacher now. The rest of them just get bad-mouthed for how useless they were- wonder if they realise?

They def have Learning Irish in Eason's and in Hodges Figgis in Dawson St. It comes with CDs which are absolutely brilliant and it pretty much starts right from the beginning, though it does say it is best if you have learned Irish at school which you have so it's perfect for you.

The small Christian Brothers 'New Irish Grammar' is terrific and should cover everything you need! Mine has a blue cover with a cross on the front, Think I've seen it in Eason's. I had mine from school though. It's for sale online here too http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1057

Best of luck and apologies if I was in any way hurtful, or anything. I can promise though that I'll try to help as much as possible whenever I'm on boards. Loads of others there too are amazing help. It was crucial to me at the beginning when I went back to it!

They're ordering it in for me in the Easons beside me. I got grouped with some girls today and it really made me think about what you said about the bad standard of Irish. We had exercises to do and they would NOT stop speaking as Béarla. I was like "Um... Thug an múinteoir an obair dúinn..." and they were like "is thug the past tense?" o_o Even I know that. Supposedly if you say you love children in the interview they fail you, she said which I don't understand because surely liking children is a prerequisite. Maybe it looks like a stock answer. But the two girls in my group, when I asked them, said they wanted to be teachers because of the short hours, long holidays and "it's good if you want to have a baby". I was like "what about wanting to encourage curiosity and critical thinking ;_;?!" I'm going to try sit next to the people I was with last week, they were trying much harder.

Gumbi

Oh Jesus Wasters and chancers. I truly hope the system will filter them out somehow down the line. Just keep working at it and set an example for them, that's all you can do. Keep it up

deirdremf

pog it wrote: »

You have been on this forum for at least a year now and yet have made very little progress in Irish.

And you want to teach in primary school.

You have a responsibility to those pupils you will be paid to teach (should you get a job), their parents and the taxpayer, etc. to actually do a good job and the fact that you have done so little to prepare yourself for your new career is disgusting.

When those pupils find themselves with very little Irish going into secondary school and in later years, they will remember you so you had better start making a proper effort. Hopefully the interviewers are getting stricter now. Some of us are fed up with the pathetic standards you people apply to primary teaching.

Which is sad given that those people are intending to study to become a primary school teacher. And presuming they qualify within the 18 months, etc. then that's it. It's a busy year of study- you won't have the time to put the work into Irish once you start it as you will be studying other things, teacher practice, etc.

Not getting personal here but with a truly consistent effort over a year you would be relatively fluent by now. Irish wasn't my top ability when I was in school either but I just studied the grammar, asked thousands of questions here (hence my high posting rate) and I got on in it.

pog it, you say you don't intend getting personal, but that's is just what you have done - you have got very personal, very insulting.

I can see that Mary has made slow progress, I can't guess at the reasons for that. But I can look into my own past and see possible reasons. Not everyone is good at book learning. The Irish language is poorly taught, as you have said yourself.

I left school with very basic ability in Irish, C on the lower paper in the leaving. Some years later I decided I really wanted to learn Irish, I bought "Learning Irish" and worked my way religiously through it. Then I spent some time living in the Gaeltacht, interacting with local people - not blow-ins like myself, and eventually managed to reach an acceptable level of Irish.

But it wasn't easy, it took literally years of constant effort. Mary seems to be close to the beginning of her journey, who knows how far she will go. But being met with someone's hissy fit on the internet will not encourage her.

That said I do have issues with Mary, but of a completely different sort to your own. I have answered questions for her and given her advice on several occasions, and I hope it has helped her in some way.
So my issue with her is that I cannot remember ever being thanked by her for spending time trying to help her - nor have I seen her thank other people who have done the same.

deirdremf

MaryKirwan wrote: »

Ah, Learning Irish was recommended to me here before, but they were all out at The Book Depository and another website I tried. I'll find it on another website if it's really that good. I suppose I naively thought I'd just read whatever I came across and pick up on the grammar over time without a grammar book. The only educational Irish books I have are a dictionary and a book of dirty words and slang :l. I agree with you that Irish education is severely lacking. I remember having a teacher that just gave us a word search with Irish words and then left the room.

You will need more than one dictionary.
Get "An Foclóir Beag" and use it. It explains words in Irish, and so you are practicing your Irish when you use it.
You should also have de Bhaldraithe's English-Irish dictionary, and Ó Domhnaill's Irish-English dictionary. Learning Irish will pretty much function as a Grammar Book IIRC.

Finally try writing your questions in Irish, maybe in Teach na nGealt on this site, or on the Daltaí Boards http://www.daltai.com/forums/.
You will not make fast progress unless you practice Irish, and this is one way of doing so.

In my experience, however the fastest way to lear a language is by speaking it - but outside the gaeltacht, it is difficult but not impossible to find opportunities. Conversation groups, conversation classes etc. are one way to go.

pog it

I wish her only the very best of luck in both Irish and in her career as a teacher and if she reads this Kick some ass in that interview girl!

She is at least trying hard now and that should go a long, long way when it comes to the Irish part of the interview.

And neither of us regarded my stating my opinion as a 'hissy fit' and she seems genuinely shocked herself at the attitude of other people going into teaching. Read through the posts Deirdre. Also no need to get involved in someone else's exchange.

catrionanic

ive just finished bunrang a do. its good. very much focused on speaking the irish and challenging you - they do include a lot of irish at a higher level than the class itself, particularly in regards to the listening sections of the course.

overall its very relaxed and they let you go at your own pace in the sense that theres no pressure to move to the next level up if you dont feel ready. we had quite a lot of people start off in the lower intermediate class and then drop down to our level throughout the course as the intermediate was quite fast paced.

there is a good quiz on the website that helps you gauge what level you should do