Jacksons Way - Trial Begins

rodento

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/trial-begins-of-five-men-on-corruption-charges-related-to-land-rezoning-in-south-dublin-1.1449760
Five men have gone on trial at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court on charges of giving or receiving corrupt payments in relation to the rezoning of land in south Co Dublin.
The accused include three former councillors and a sitting councillor who are accused of receiving payments for voting to rezone lands at Jackson Way in Carrickmines

Given the first alleged payments were over 20 years ago, this case has taken its time to go to court, one can only wondering about how long it'll take for the current banking enquiry

Red Kev

For dodgy rezonings in South Dublin this article here is also worth a read.

http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2011/10/happy-valley-destroyed/

hinault

This case took it's time to reach this stage.

hinault

This case has collapsed.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0724/464380-corruption-trial/

Boulevardier

This is not acceptable. The DPP must be sacked. He and his office are not fit for purpose.

adocholiday

Absolute joke of the highest order. If these b******ds get off after all this time it is outrageous. It's more of this untouchables crap. These slimeballs get to go home to Gibraltar or wherever and meanwhile some ordinary Joe who is struggling to make ends meet gets shafted for something like a TV license.

This country is a corrupt joke.

Mr.Micro

adocholiday wrote: »

Absolute joke of the highest order. If these b******ds get off after all this time it is outrageous. It's more of this untouchables crap. These slimeballs get to go home to Gibraltar or wherever and meanwhile some ordinary Joe who is struggling to make ends meet gets shafted for something like a TV license.

This country is a corrupt joke.

There is probably little hope of ever getting any of the slimy developers, councillors and whoever else in this country involved in corruption after this debacle. Corruption does not exist in Ireland. The passport office allegedly involved in fraud (yet again) giving out passports to people not entitled. What a reputation we are giving ourselves.

Mr.Micro

Boulevardier wrote: »

This is not acceptable. The DPP must be sacked. He and his office are not fit for purpose.

Better not expect much if the Anglo lot come to a full trial..... sure it will keep RTE busy reporting if it does.

rodento

I honestly don't know which is worse

The collaspe of the jacksons way trial

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dpp-drops-charges-in-councillors-bribery-trial-29445544.html

Or this on a technicality

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/councillors-drinkdrive-conviction-overturned-on-appeal-29443647.html

A FINE Gael councillor has successfully appealed a drink-driving conviction following an incident in which he sped away from a garda checkpoint before abandoning his car and hiding in a bush behind a churchyard.

Cllr Michael Hegarty (FG) brought a challenge against his conviction to Cork Circuit Criminal Court on the basis he had been unlawfully detained by pursuing gardai during the incident 12 months ago.

johnnyskeleton

Boulevardier wrote: »

This is not acceptable. The DPP must be sacked. He and his office are not fit for purpose.

She.

raymon

Terribly disappointing result .

nice_guy80

I worked on the archaeological site in Carrickmines back in the day

we always knew there was something dodgy about the whole deal

Cody Pomeray

Ridiculous outcome, indeed, but the ridiculousness stems from the length of time it has taken for a criminal prosecution to arise.

Charges of corrupt payments in this case go back 21 years. Why has it taken 21 years to get to the circuit court? That's the farce, not the fact that people get into ill health if you wait until they are elderly before bringing a bloody prosecution like.

As the above poster said, there was no great mystery about corruption. This wasn't the third secret of Fatima.

MadsL

Only hearing about this now. What a cover up, 21 years and the case collapses!!! DP should be sacked and the nolle prosequi response is an utter joke.

Is there no willingness to end corruption in Ireland? Ever?

johnnyskeleton

MadsL wrote: »

Only hearing about this now. What a cover up, 21 years and the case collapses!!! DP should be sacked and the nolle prosequi response is an utter joke.

Is there no willingness to end corruption in Ireland? Ever?

How do you reconcile these two propositions:
1) corruption in Ireland should be stopped; and
2) if the independent director of public prosecutions makes an unpopular independent decision, she should be sacked and replaced with someone who will not make any unpopular decisions.

Frank Lee Midere

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

How do you reconcile these two propositions:
1) corruption in Ireland should be stopped; and
2) if the independent director of public prosecutions makes an unpopular independent decision, she should be sacked and replaced with someone who will not make any unpopular decisions.

i think we're confused more about the length of time it has taken to go to court.

MadsL

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

How do you reconcile these two propositions:
1) corruption in Ireland should be stopped; and
2) if the independent director of public prosecutions makes an unpopular independent decision, she should be sacked and replaced with someone who will not make any unpopular decisions.

Do you consider the office of the DPP beyond reproach in the length of time in bringing this case to trial and ultimately advising the judge of a motion of nolle prosequi?

This sends a dreadful message that blatant corruption on the part of elected officials is completely tolerated and beyond prosecution in Ireland still.

This was a very black day for democracy in Ireland.

johnnyskeleton

MadsL wrote: »

Do you consider the office of the DPP beyond reproach in the length of time in bringing this case to trial and ultimately advising the judge of a motion of nolle prosequi?

Not beyond reproach, but then again I am not the one asserting that she should be removed from office over this.

You're concerned about the delay - can you point to specific reasons as to why the DPP's office or the DPP personally is guilty of culpable delay on their part? When, for example, did the DPP receive the file (which is the first time that he/she can make any sort of decision on a case)?

As regards a nolle, do you think she should have wasted more public money on a case that she couldn't win (due to witness difficulties) and which would result in acquittals for the defendants?

This sends a dreadful message that blatant corruption on the part of elected officials is completely tolerated and beyond prosecution in Ireland still.

Not at all. They were prosecuted, but that prosecution was aborted. The people in the next trial may not be so lucky. But to suggest that every time a case collapses due to witness difficulties means that crime is tolerated is the talk of someone who would have us introduce a police state whereby a person is guilty just as soon as the allegation of corruption is made against them.

This was a very black day for democracy in Ireland.

Actually, it is a great day for constitutional democracy where the individuals' right to a fair trial was not overturned by the public's desire for vengeance.

Those who would exchange fundamental freedoms for temporary security deserve neither freedom nor security.

Mr.Micro

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

As regards a nolle, do you think she should have wasted more public money on a case that she couldn't win (due to witness difficulties) and which would result in acquittals for the defendants?



Not at all. They were prosecuted, but that prosecution was aborted. The people in the next trial may not be so lucky. But to suggest that every time a case collapses due to witness difficulties means that crime is tolerated is the talk of someone who would have us introduce a police state whereby a person is guilty just as soon as the allegation of corruption is made against them.



Actually, it is a great day for constitutional democracy where the individuals' right to a fair trial was not overturned by the public's desire for vengeance.

What were the chances of success with this case? Very low, I would have said. The DPP, IMO, bringing a prosecution with so many holes in it that a sieve would hold more water. Why then.......... to assuage public thirst for justice? Fortunately, the outcome is correct, in that the witness was unable to continue, and the jury was spared a deliberation, the result of which could have been awkward for the DPP, in showing how weak the prosecution case was.

johnnyskeleton

Mr.Micro wrote: »

What were the chances of success with this case? Very low, I would have said. The DPP, IMO, bringing a prosecution with so many holes in it that a sieve would hold more water. Why then.......... to assuage public thirst for justice? Fortunately, the outcome is correct, in that the witness was unable to continue, and the jury was spared a deliberation, the result of which could have been awkward for the DPP, in showing how weak the prosecution case was.

To be honest, I don't know the strengths or weakness of the case, nor do I know any more about the reasons for it proceeding in 2013 instead of in previous years other than what I read in the papers.

The best I can gather is that the case was based almost exclusively on Dunlop's evidence, first to Mahon, then to CAB, then finally after he was prosecuted, he turned state's evidence.

As to why to proceed on that, well the answer is fairly simple - the traditional view of the job of independent prosecutor is that any credible complaint of a serious criminal offence should be prosecuted, unless there are public policy or other substantial reasons not to prosecute. So it is obviously better in a case like this to put it before the courts and see how it goes rather than to do nothing in the first place.

For bringing the prosecution, even if it was unsuccessful, I commend the DPP, and the calls for her to step down over this, particularly since the prosecution appears to have been initiated in 2010 when her predecessor was in office, are misguided at best.