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Jacksons Way - Trial Begins

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    #2
    Red Kev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Red Kev


    For dodgy rezonings in South Dublin this article here is also worth a read.

    http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2011/10/happy-valley-destroyed/


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    #3
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    This case took it's time to reach this stage.


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    #4
    hinault
    Registered Users Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    This case has collapsed.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0724/464380-corruption-trial/


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    #5
    Boulevardier
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    This is not acceptable. The DPP must be sacked. He and his office are not fit for purpose.


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    #6
    adocholiday
    Registered Users Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭adocholiday


    Absolute joke of the highest order. If these b******ds get off after all this time it is outrageous. It's more of this untouchables crap. These slimeballs get to go home to Gibraltar or wherever and meanwhile some ordinary Joe who is struggling to make ends meet gets shafted for something like a TV license.

    This country is a corrupt joke.


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    #7
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    adocholiday wrote: »
    Absolute joke of the highest order. If these b******ds get off after all this time it is outrageous. It's more of this untouchables crap. These slimeballs get to go home to Gibraltar or wherever and meanwhile some ordinary Joe who is struggling to make ends meet gets shafted for something like a TV license.

    This country is a corrupt joke.

    There is probably little hope of ever getting any of the slimy developers, councillors and whoever else in this country involved in corruption after this debacle. Corruption does not exist in Ireland. The passport office allegedly involved in fraud (yet again) giving out passports to people not entitled. What a reputation we are giving ourselves.


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    #8
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Boulevardier wrote: »
    This is not acceptable. The DPP must be sacked. He and his office are not fit for purpose.

    Better not expect much if the Anglo lot come to a full trial..... sure it will keep RTE busy reporting if it does.


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    #9
    rodento
    Registered Users Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭rodento


    I honestly don't know which is worse

    The collaspe of the jacksons way trial

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dpp-drops-charges-in-councillors-bribery-trial-29445544.html

    Or this on a technicality

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/councillors-drinkdrive-conviction-overturned-on-appeal-29443647.html

    A FINE Gael councillor has successfully appealed a drink-driving conviction following an incident in which he sped away from a garda checkpoint before abandoning his car and hiding in a bush behind a churchyard.

    Cllr Michael Hegarty (FG) brought a challenge against his conviction to Cork Circuit Criminal Court on the basis he had been unlawfully detained by pursuing gardai during the incident 12 months ago.


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    #10
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Boulevardier wrote: »
    This is not acceptable. The DPP must be sacked. He and his office are not fit for purpose.

    She.


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    #11
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Terribly disappointing result .


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    #12
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    I worked on the archaeological site in Carrickmines back in the day

    we always knew there was something dodgy about the whole deal


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    #13
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Ridiculous outcome, indeed, but the ridiculousness stems from the length of time it has taken for a criminal prosecution to arise.

    Charges of corrupt payments in this case go back 21 years. Why has it taken 21 years to get to the circuit court? That's the farce, not the fact that people get into ill health if you wait until they are elderly before bringing a bloody prosecution like.

    As the above poster said, there was no great mystery about corruption. This wasn't the third secret of Fatima.


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    #14
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    Only hearing about this now. What a cover up, 21 years and the case collapses!!! DP should be sacked and the nolle prosequi response is an utter joke.

    Is there no willingness to end corruption in Ireland? Ever?


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    #15
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    MadsL wrote: »
    Only hearing about this now. What a cover up, 21 years and the case collapses!!! DP should be sacked and the nolle prosequi response is an utter joke.

    Is there no willingness to end corruption in Ireland? Ever?

    How do you reconcile these two propositions:
    1) corruption in Ireland should be stopped; and
    2) if the independent director of public prosecutions makes an unpopular independent decision, she should be sacked and replaced with someone who will not make any unpopular decisions.


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    #16
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    How do you reconcile these two propositions:
    1) corruption in Ireland should be stopped; and
    2) if the independent director of public prosecutions makes an unpopular independent decision, she should be sacked and replaced with someone who will not make any unpopular decisions.

    i think we're confused more about the length of time it has taken to go to court.


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    #17
    MadsL
    Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    How do you reconcile these two propositions:
    1) corruption in Ireland should be stopped; and
    2) if the independent director of public prosecutions makes an unpopular independent decision, she should be sacked and replaced with someone who will not make any unpopular decisions.

    Do you consider the office of the DPP beyond reproach in the length of time in bringing this case to trial and ultimately advising the judge of a motion of nolle prosequi?

    This sends a dreadful message that blatant corruption on the part of elected officials is completely tolerated and beyond prosecution in Ireland still.

    This was a very black day for democracy in Ireland.


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    #18
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    MadsL wrote: »
    Do you consider the office of the DPP beyond reproach in the length of time in bringing this case to trial and ultimately advising the judge of a motion of nolle prosequi?

    Not beyond reproach, but then again I am not the one asserting that she should be removed from office over this.

    You're concerned about the delay - can you point to specific reasons as to why the DPP's office or the DPP personally is guilty of culpable delay on their part? When, for example, did the DPP receive the file (which is the first time that he/she can make any sort of decision on a case)?

    As regards a nolle, do you think she should have wasted more public money on a case that she couldn't win (due to witness difficulties) and which would result in acquittals for the defendants?
    This sends a dreadful message that blatant corruption on the part of elected officials is completely tolerated and beyond prosecution in Ireland still.

    Not at all. They were prosecuted, but that prosecution was aborted. The people in the next trial may not be so lucky. But to suggest that every time a case collapses due to witness difficulties means that crime is tolerated is the talk of someone who would have us introduce a police state whereby a person is guilty just as soon as the allegation of corruption is made against them.
    This was a very black day for democracy in Ireland.

    Actually, it is a great day for constitutional democracy where the individuals' right to a fair trial was not overturned by the public's desire for vengeance.

    Those who would exchange fundamental freedoms for temporary security deserve neither freedom nor security.


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    #19
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    As regards a nolle, do you think she should have wasted more public money on a case that she couldn't win (due to witness difficulties) and which would result in acquittals for the defendants?



    Not at all. They were prosecuted, but that prosecution was aborted. The people in the next trial may not be so lucky. But to suggest that every time a case collapses due to witness difficulties means that crime is tolerated is the talk of someone who would have us introduce a police state whereby a person is guilty just as soon as the allegation of corruption is made against them.



    Actually, it is a great day for constitutional democracy where the individuals' right to a fair trial was not overturned by the public's desire for vengeance.

    What were the chances of success with this case? Very low, I would have said. The DPP, IMO, bringing a prosecution with so many holes in it that a sieve would hold more water. Why then.......... to assuage public thirst for justice? Fortunately, the outcome is correct, in that the witness was unable to continue, and the jury was spared a deliberation, the result of which could have been awkward for the DPP, in showing how weak the prosecution case was.


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    #20
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    What were the chances of success with this case? Very low, I would have said. The DPP, IMO, bringing a prosecution with so many holes in it that a sieve would hold more water. Why then.......... to assuage public thirst for justice? Fortunately, the outcome is correct, in that the witness was unable to continue, and the jury was spared a deliberation, the result of which could have been awkward for the DPP, in showing how weak the prosecution case was.

    To be honest, I don't know the strengths or weakness of the case, nor do I know any more about the reasons for it proceeding in 2013 instead of in previous years other than what I read in the papers.

    The best I can gather is that the case was based almost exclusively on Dunlop's evidence, first to Mahon, then to CAB, then finally after he was prosecuted, he turned state's evidence.

    As to why to proceed on that, well the answer is fairly simple - the traditional view of the job of independent prosecutor is that any credible complaint of a serious criminal offence should be prosecuted, unless there are public policy or other substantial reasons not to prosecute. So it is obviously better in a case like this to put it before the courts and see how it goes rather than to do nothing in the first place.

    For bringing the prosecution, even if it was unsuccessful, I commend the DPP, and the calls for her to step down over this, particularly since the prosecution appears to have been initiated in 2010 when her predecessor was in office, are misguided at best.


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