When will the cuts end

kdowling

Further cuts of 7.5% to doctors and pharmacists fees today.
They don't even have the curtesy to tell pharmacists about the cuts and let them know the new reimbursement procedures. Have to find out through the media!

That's pharmacist down 34% of their profits since cuts came in.
When will it end?

RobFowl

kdowling wrote: »

Further cuts of 7.5% to doctors and pharmacists fees today.
They don't even have the curtesy to tell pharmacists about the cuts and let them know the new reimbursement procedures. Have to find out through the media!

That's pharmacist down 34% of their profits since cuts came in.
When will it end?

GP's the same. Feckers let us find out through the media as well, didn't even have the courtesy to tell us when the announcement would be made.
Am in the charming situation where if I do minor surgery on the GMS scheme it'll actually cost me money so instead have to refer to AE/hospital where the same procedure will be done after a delay of 3-12 months for roughly 15 times the cost...
These cuts will actually end up costing the government (and the tax payer) more and the worst thing is they know it.
Stupid

kdowling

RobFowl wrote: »

GP's the same. Feckers let us find out through the media as well, didn't even have the courtesy to tell us when the announcement would be made.
Am in the charming situation where if I do minor surgery on the GMS scheme it'll actually cost me money so instead have to refer to AE/hospital where the same procedure will be done after a delay of 3-12 months for roughly 15 times the cost...
These cuts will actually end up costing the government (and the tax payer) more and the worst thing is they know it.
Stupid

If we buy insulin and fridge items at a cost €100 we will get reimbursed €93.
So we not working for nothing, it's actually loss making!!!
We can't refer them on unfortunately we will have to take a loss! Madness!

Anthony16

In fairness,I dont think GPs can complain too much about taking some form of cut. My GP was paid 400k for med card patients alone last year. He has 1 secretary in his practice. Im sure he is closing in on 900k/annum gross and spends most weekends on the golf course. One of the lucky older generation I suppose

RobFowl wrote: »

GP's the same. Feckers let us find out through the media as well, didn't even have the courtesy to tell us when the announcement would be made.
Am in the charming situation where if I do minor surgery on the GMS scheme it'll actually cost me money so instead have to refer to AE/hospital where the same procedure will be done after a delay of 3-12 months for roughly 15 times the cost...
These cuts will actually end up costing the government (and the tax payer) more and the worst thing is they know it.
Stupid

Nonoperational

I think it's just a sad fact that there are too many pharmacies in Ireland doing too few items per day. They were making good money in the good times, and now are just about surviving. With these cuts it may finish them off.

It's very sad, but at the same time is it reasonable to have a shop doing tiny amounts of dispensing per day still making a profit? I don't know the answer, and if they do close there will be more people out of work etc, and business paying rent and utilities closing down which is not at all what this country needs.

RobFowl

Anthony16 wrote: »

In fairness,I dont think GPs can complain too much about taking some form of cut. My GP was paid 400k for med card patients alone last year. He has 1 secretary in his practice. Im sure he is closing in on 900k/annum gross and spends most weekends on the golf course. One of the lucky older generation I suppose

Well 400 or 900 gross (if it is correct!) is not anywhere near a net profit (salary).
Staff including secretary, Nurse, practice manger
rent, heat
equipment
Insurances (well over 10k for them all)
Locum fee's for holiday/study leave
I'm in a practice that turns over 600k year has 5 doctors, 2 nurses, 4 reception staff and we have to use locum's to cover holidays

But we all "know" GP's are rich beyyond belief, do nothing but play golf and casually roll in to refer all th epatients to AE every once in a while.
Totoal cost of the cuts to GP (this was the 4th big one) is now circa 40%...

L1011

Pretty much any GP that is actually single-handed and with 400k on a GMS list will be taking in about, erm, 400k... private income has collapsed and a 400k list is quite large and would be close to the maximum practical to actually service.

Anthony16

Dont Gps get subsidised for hiring nursing staff?
Im not questioning your practices turnover im just stating that this is the case with this particular GP. Net profit he must be making 300-400k. He is an excellent doctor .

The top 1% of income earners in Ireland earn over 140k gross. I think a small cut is fair given the need to make our income and expenditure match up.

RobFowl wrote: »

Well 400 or 900 gross (if it is correct!) is not where near a net profit (salary).
Staff inclufifn secretarty, Nurse, practice manger
rent, heat
equipment
Insurances (well over 10k for them all)
Locum fee's for holiday/study leave
I'm in a practice that turns over 600k yeat has 5 doctors, 2 nurses, 4 reception staff and we have to used locum's to cover holidays

But we all "know" GP's are rich beyyond belief, do nothing but play golf and casually roll in to refer all th epatients to AE every once in a while.
Totoal cost of the cuts to GP (this was the 4th big one) is now circa 40%...

ricardo1

What angers me is that this bunch http://www.hse.ie/eng/about/Who/Management_Team/
have had a fraction of the cuts (endured by GPs and pharmacists).

The more savings achieved from cutting GPs and pharmacists remuneration, the less cuts they will endure on their own salaries, pensions and benefits

or rather "Robbing Peter to pay Paul aka (PDiddy Burke).

Don't get me started on the f...ing useless, with literally nothing to do all day every day overpaid HSE regional managers...

Susie564

I'm not normally one for complaining about doctors fees or the costs in pharmacies and such like but won't they just hike up their prices to private patients to compensate the difference (or at least some of it)?

I very much value my GP and local pharmacist btw so not attempting to beat up on either profession here but isn't that the reality of it. I got a script recently and the charge has gone up from €15 to €20.

L1011

Anthony16 wrote: »

Dont Gps get subsidised for hiring nursing staff?
Im not questioning your practices turnover im just stating that this is the case with this particular GP. Net profit he must be making 300-400k. He is an excellent doctor

At best, part-subsidised, and that is included in the figure you'll have given.

I seriously, seriously doubt that any single-handed GP with 400k GMS income is taking in 500k privately - and if they are, they aren't golfing at weekends. If he's not single-handed, there isn't a hope in hell the practice is making that kind of profit.

RobFowl

Anthony16 wrote: »

Dont Gps get subsidised for hiring nursing staff?
Im not questioning your practices turnover im just stating that this is the case with this particular GP. Net profit he must be making 300-400k. He is an excellent doctor .

The top 1% of income earners in Ireland earn over 140k gross. I think a small cut is fair given the need to make our income and expenditure match up.

They do and for whatever reason these subsidies and included in the figures released as GP professional fees....
So the 400 k included 80-120 in staff subsidies which are meticulously accounted for by the HSE..

Ps the average GP profit/salary 2 years ago was 90-140k. This was reduced and compares to consultant salaries of 120 to 160k t the same time.
gp partners in the uk earn 120k to 250k *sterling) for comparison.

vvvv

RobFowl wrote: »

They do and for whatever reason these subsidies and included in the figures released as GP professional fees....
So the 400 k included 80-120 in staff subsidies which are meticulously accounted for by the HSE..

Free money?

echo beach

Susie564 wrote: »

I'm not normally one for complaining about doctors fees or the costs in pharmacies and such like but won't they just hike up their prices to private patients to compensate the difference (or at least some of it)?

That is what you might expect and it would be the most simple response, but at the moment it is very difficult to increase prices without losing custom so for most that won't be an option.
A more likely approach will be to try to cut costs. Savings like finding the cheapest suppliers for everything have already been made in response to previous cuts and the biggest overhead is labour so the only way to make significant savings to is cut wages or hours. Many staff have already had wage cuts and further cuts may bring them to the point where paying travel, childcare, etc makes it uneconomic to work so qualified and experienced staff leave the workforce.
Cuts in staff hours and numbers have an impact on the service that can be delivered.
'Doing more for less' has become the mantra but everybody reaches a point where they can't do any more and they can't get by with any less. There is burnout and morale is on the floor.

It isn't possible to cut and then cut more and pretend there won't be consequences and that everything can go on as before. It can't. It isn't possible to predict what the exact consequences will be because there are so many variables and individual responses but somebody will suffer and it it always the most vulnerable who lose out.

mountai

Cut them to the bone. Its time that these so called professionals were brought down to earth and suffered like the rest of us . I"m sick of hearing how the "Caring" professionals have been targeted. They have had their jackboots on the necks of the ordinary people of this country for far too long. At long last we"ve gotten out of the oppression of "Mother Church" next step, liberation from the "Professional Princes".

Robroy36

mountai wrote: »

Cut them to the bone. Its time that these so called professionals were brought down to earth and suffered like the rest of us . I"m sick of hearing how the "Caring" professionals have been targeted. They have had their jackboots on the necks of the ordinary people of this country for far too long. At long last we"ve gotten out of the oppression of "Mother Church" next step, liberation from the "Professional Princes".

A new "Che"! Liberation from the "Professional Princes"? Healthcare professionals in Ireland do need to be liberated, they need to be liberated from the quasi socialist healthcare system they have been shackled by for too long. A free market, where everyone pays either at the point of care or by means of private health insurance would increase healthcare workers compensation to a level commensurate with their expertise.

Furthermore mountai, there is nothing stopping you repeating your leaving cert, attaining the requisite points for Medicine, Pharmacy, Densitry, physiotherapy etc, studying and training for up to 10 years to alleviate your own suffering.

The problem with Ireland today is not the salaries of Doctors or Dentists, the overcrowded hospitals or any other hobby horse for the media. The real problem is the cancerous mindset of entitlement that you potentiate mountai. Instead of being aspirational figuers in the community the mindset of entitlement pours scorn on them, questioning their earnings, their expertise, destroying any vennier of success society has quiet rightly gifted to them. I could go on an illustrate how this poisonous Weltanschauung is destroying Western society but I have better things to do this afternoon.

Vorsprung

mountai wrote: »

Cut them to the bone. Its time that these so called professionals were brought down to earth and suffered like the rest of us . I"m sick of hearing how the "Caring" professionals have been targeted. They have had their jackboots on the necks of the ordinary people of this country for far too long. At long last we"ve gotten out of the oppression of "Mother Church" next step, liberation from the "Professional Princes".

Cut them to the bone and patients suffer, services get cut.

Interesting comment on the "caring" professionals, you seem to have a bit more time for landlords!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84649637&postcount=15

xzx

I do so love the "money" threads in here.

RainyDay

I wouldn't expect much public sympathy for pharmacists as long as these cost anomolies remain. Why can I get a year's supply of aspirin over the counter in the States for the cost of a month's supply here?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/who-s-making-the-most-from-the-drug-deals-1.1456574/who-s-making-the-most-from-the-drug-deals-1.1456574

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0627/459090-generic-drugs-cost/

ricardo1

mountai wrote: »

Cut them to the bone. Its time that these so called professionals were brought down to earth and suffered like the rest of us . I"m sick of hearing how the "Caring" professionals have been targeted. They have had their jackboots on the necks of the ordinary people of this country for far too long. At long last we"ve gotten out of the oppression of "Mother Church" next step, liberation from the "Professional Princes".

Mountai get 550+ points in your leaving cert go to college for 4-5 years get a degree as a "caring professional" then work as an intern for a year spending 9-12 hours a day killing yourself on your feet doing 200+ items seeing 50+ patients and now earning €10 an hour.

Then get back to us on how "sick of hearing about healthcare professionals have been targeted" and "liberate the Professional Princes" (whatever the hell that means).

I'll be as polite as possible but after reading your other posts I have to say I would have more respect and admiration for the education, knowledge and training of a nurse,doctor,pharmacist,dentist and other healthcare professional than someone " being in the know of the latest form this week at the races".

I suggest increasing the tax rate on gambling back to 5% and that would save the cuts we have endured over the past 4 years.

Anthony16

I would have to agree with the above. If u get 550 in your leaving cert and a good degree u deserve to be better paid than someone who didnt bother.
Saying that,how many employers get paid to take on staff like GPs do?Not to mention the state isnt paying out 200k plus to most employers as happens with doctors,dentists ,pharmacists. U would not believe how hard it can be to collect money. Being paid by the state certainly solves that particular headache for these professionals.

mountai

Well ricardo 1 thank you for the good advice. Since my post seemed to spark your interest in my previous posts , then you might have pick up on the fact that I"m now retired, living off my investments that I was prudent to make whilst I was gainfully engaged in running my own business for thirty five years. Sorry that I didn"t get 550 points in my LC and do Uni etc. I just happened to work extremely hard for all those years, giving employment to numerous people and never clock watched in my life , so please dont lecture me, about the hard working "Professional Princes " and the hours they put in. Having dealt with their likes, and civil service personnel over that time, I"m entitled to state my opinion.If I were as successful at picking winners as I was in business then I would be a Zillionair !!!!

SleepDoc

mountai wrote: »

Well ricardo 1 thank you for the good advice. Since my post seemed to spark your interest in my previous posts , then you might have pick up on the fact that I"m now retired, living off my investments that I was prudent to make whilst I was gainfully engaged in running my own business for thirty five years. Sorry that I didn"t get 550 points in my LC and do Uni etc. I just happened to work extremely hard for all those years, giving employment to numerous people and never clock watched in my life , so please dont lecture me, about the hard working "Professional Princes " and the hours they put in. Having dealt with their likes, and civil service personnel over that time, I"m entitled to state my opinion.If I were as successful at picking winners as I was in business then I would be a Zillionair !!!!

This video applies to you (repost)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtSw3daGoo

ricardo1

mountai wrote: »

Well ricardo 1 thank you for the good advice. Since my post seemed to spark your interest in my previous posts , then you might have pick up on the fact that I"m now retired, living off my investments that I was prudent to make whilst I was gainfully engaged in running my own business for thirty five years. Sorry that I didn"t get 550 points in my LC and do Uni etc. I just happened to work extremely hard for all those years, giving employment to numerous people and never clock watched in my life , so please dont lecture me, about the hard working "Professional Princes " and the hours they put in. Having dealt with their likes, and civil service personnel over that time, I"m entitled to state my opinion.If I were as successful at picking winners as I was in business then I would be a Zillionair !!!!

Mountai

It's nearly time you gave up on this thread. Another thread you started was locked as the more points that you made were answered the more you were ridiculed.
Each point you made demonstrated your ignorance and it showed you were really just having a spat against pharmacists, doctors, nurses and now the civil servants.
The more I read what you post the more pretentious and vulgar each point becomes.
You "gave employment to numerous people " Well congratulations! Give that man a medal!
Now you might understand that "cutting to the bone" would involve serving undue hardship on "numerous employees".

Can I please ask what you worked so hard at over 35 years offering employment to numerous people prudently investing so that you're now retired.

I'd like to draw a parallel or comparison between it and the business or task of delivering a safe health service to the general public.

echo beach

Anthony16 wrote: »

U would not believe how hard it can be to collect money. Being paid by the state certainly solves that particular headache for these professionals.

I fully understand that that getting paid for work done is difficult but being dependent on the state is to do the paying isn't a doodle either. Despite the Prompt Payments Act they are slow to pay and tie everything up in so much red tape that it requires a great deal of time and effort to submit claims in a manner to their liking. Even more time and effort is required to work out what they have paid for and more importantly what they haven't and why.
While there is security in having a state contract there is all the insecurity of having only one main customer and that customer having far more power than you do.

The healthcare professionals who contract to provide various services to the state are running businesses with all the overheads and regulation involved but have to deal with paymasters who live in a culture of going to an office that is heated, furnished and staffed without their input. This makes it difficult, if not impossible, for those paymasters to understand how a business runs and that profit isn't a bad word but is a necessity for survival.