How will I get around this issue?

tea and coffee

Spiral stairs in room. Double height ceiling. The stairs goes up to an upstairs room but I also want it to go up to the balcony as well.

Initially thought I could just extend the platform at the top sideways towards the balcony. This will not work as the platform extension will come so low that you wont be able to come under it when going up the steps underneath.
Then I thought we could rotate the stairs so platform faces balcony but this means lower steps protrude quite a bit into the room.

Other suggestions include:
- drawbridge between balcony and top of stairs
-move stairs to other side of room and extend balcony.

Help!!! Builders in. Need to decide.

the pic with window in it is where we could move it too..on other side of room

Gulliver

As always, please, please get an engineer to do the actual work on this - it's just a suggestion.

Rotate the stairs 90 deg counter clockwise (to join balcony). Move them 120cm (or whatever regulations require for a walkway?) away from wall and then have a walkway from balcony across under door.

Also.... engineer!

sydthebeat

move the stairs out about 900mm from the wall and create new walkway joining balcony with existing door?

tea and coffee

sydthebeat wrote: »

move the stairs out about 900mm from the wall and create new walkway joining balcony with existing door?

A very good idea. But! This means stairs taking up lots of space in centre of room again...

Gullivar, sorry for being thick... what is the benefit of an engineer on this? I have one but he is very slow at getting back and I am under a fair bit of pressure

sydthebeat

ok, turn the stairs through 90 (or even 180) degress anti clockwise and push it further towards the window along the same wall
in this way your 6th / 7 th step is away from any new walkway created.

Gulliver

You should never "cowboy" anything like this. Always get a professional involved as there could be insurance/resale issues later. Whether that be your own engineer or the engineer from a stair company.

tea and coffee

sydthebeat wrote: »

ok, turn the stairs through 90 (or even 180) degress anti clockwise and push it further towards the window along the same wall
in this way your 6th / 7 th step is away from any new walkway created.

Then i am back to the whack your head off protruding steps issue. That window-the centre panels- are being made doors...so you would walk in and likely catch your head on side of step as uou walk in.

:-/

Head. Officially. Melted

tea and coffee

Gulliver wrote: »

You should never "cowboy" anything like this. Always get a professional involved as there could be insurance/resale issues later. Whether that be your own engineer or the engineer from a stair company.

What type? I have a structual engineer...thanks.
thanks everyone. This is like a flipping rubix cube to me.

Mellor

Gulliver wrote: »

You should never "cowboy" anything like this. Always get a professional involved as there could be insurance/resale issues later. Whether that be your own engineer or the engineer from a stair company.

It's not really an engineering issue but rather a design/layout issue.




I'd rotate the platform and the stairs 90 degrees about the centre of the platform, so that the centre support of the stairs connects to the lower right corner of the platform, (rather than the lower left). The existing clearance is unchanged, and the platform extension runs away from the stairs without interfering.
The stairs does move closer to the window, but this is dead space anyway, and in fact moving it frees up space under the balcony, toward the room.

See attached sketch. (arrow indicates the entry to the first step)

sydthebeat

That's pretty much exactly what I was suggesting above to.

I was suggesting that it too might actually need another 90 degree turn and give some more meat to the walkway above

tea and coffee

You dont think that this would make the lower steps (at head height) jut too much out into the room?

Mellor

They'll stick into the room just as far, only at different levels. I don't think ts an issue.
I also think that the stairs id better in the corner

tea and coffee

Mellor wrote: »

They'll stick into the room just as far, only at different levels. I don't think ts an issue.
I also think that the stairs id better in the corner

Yes, I completely agree; the stairs is better off in the corner.

My only concern with the jutting steps is that when you come in through the (new ) doors that will be there, because of the new rotation, you will catch your face on them. :eek: Ouch!

sydthebeat

tea and coffee wrote: »

Yes, I completely agree; the stairs is better off in the corner.

My only concern with the jutting steps is that when you come in through the (new ) doors that will be there, because of the new rotation, you will catch your face on them. :eek: Ouch!

theres a balustrade already around the stairs.... this new turn isnt going to make any difference.

at the moment your 9th and 10th step protrude most into the room.

with a 180 degree turn it will be the 3rd step.

the only issue i ca see is that your bottom step is close to the facing wall, how much room have you to play with? if the steps are 600mm wide, i suppose 600mm is sufficient space at the bottom of the stair.

tea and coffee

sydthebeat wrote: »

theres a balustrade already around the stairs.... this new turn isnt going to make any difference.

at the moment your 9th and 10th step protrude most into the room.

with a 180 degree turn it will be the 3rd step.

the only issue i ca see is that your bottom step is close to the facing wall, how much room have you to play with? if the steps are 600mm wide, i suppose 600mm is sufficient space at the bottom of the stair.

I think I have picked everyone up wrong. Do you propose turning the stairs clockwise or anti clockwise. e.g. pick up the lowest step (which is currently facing 12 o'clock- as in you step towards 12 ) and turn it facing 3 or 9?

knotknowbody

Mellor wrote: »

It's not really an engineering issue but rather a design/layout issue.




I'd rotate the platform and the stairs 90 degrees about the centre of the platform, so that the centre support of the stairs connects to the lower right corner of the platform, (rather than the lower left). The existing clearance is unchanged, and the platform extension runs away from the stairs without interfering.
The stairs does move closer to the window, but this is dead space anyway, and in fact moving it frees up space under the balcony, toward the room.

See attached sketch. (arrow indicates the entry to the first step)

If you do this will the first few steps not be under the balcony and thus create a bang your head off the underside of the balcony issue as you climb onto the third step, on even worse as your descending hit your forehead off the corner of it.

sydthebeat

tea and coffee wrote: »

I think I have picked everyone up wrong. Do you propose turning the stairs clockwise or anti clockwise. e.g. pick up the lowest step (which is currently facing 12 o'clock- as in you step towards 12 ) and turn it facing 3 or 9?

if the bottom step is currently 12 o clock, id turn it to 6... completely 180 degrees.

sydthebeat

knotknowbody wrote: »

If you do this will the first few steps not be under the balcony and thus create a bang your head off the underside of the balcony issue as you climb onto the third step, on even worse as your descending hit your forehead off the corner of it.

no, theres 13 steps, in a 360 degree spiral... the direction you enter the stair is the direction you exit it.

knotknowbody

sydthebeat wrote: »

no, theres 13 steps, in a 360 degree spiral... the direction you enter the stair is the direction you exit it.

Yes I understand that, the last step is pretty much directly above the first step, therefore if you exit the stair with the walkway/balcony in front of you, obviously you will enter with it the walkway/balcony overhead, as you climb obviously your head will get nearer the underside of the walkway/balcony until you emerge from underneath it, is there enough clearance at this point to avoid headbanging.

sydthebeat

knotknowbody wrote: »

Yes I understand that, the last step is pretty much directly above the first step, therefore if you exit the stair with the walkway/balcony in front of you, obviously you will enter with it the walkway/balcony overhead, as you climb obviously your head will get nearer the underside of the walkway/balcony until you emerge from underneath it, is there enough clearance at this point to avoid headbanging.

ah yes i see what you are saying...

however, in the second pic from mellor, he isnt exactly proposing anything new or greater than exists. You will still be able to walk up the first 3 / 4 steps under the landing without there being a head room issue... which is as exists.

The only change id make to his sketch is that his 'extension' to teh lading is the same width ie approx 600mm... youd have to widen to to at least 900mm... but, irregardless, at that stage your completely away from the spiral

tea and coffee

Ok just for clarity. There is 4ft clearance or so between 8th step (one above one with dust mask on it.

Also regarding the balustrade preventing the face whcking- its the corner of the steps that catches you and the hand rail wont prevent that. For example, if u were to walk from where i took the photo towards that small internal window behind the stairs, you would have to duck/swerve to avoid the corner ofthe 7th step catching you upside the head.

What does anyone think of a curved metal (or wood) arch joining platform.to balcony to avoid the headroom issue whilst leaving stairs in current position as the cheaper option. Builder aays it prob weighs about 100stone or so, and so its a bigger job than my original "extend the balcony at side " idea (before i realised headroom issue)

tea and coffee

Sydthebeat. If i turn the whole stairs 180 then the first and last step face into the room. What would support the balcony extension then as it would be in middle of balcony then. And how would a person get up the stairs as they would have to squeeze by the wall in order to enter the firsr step. Would 90 degrees not be better?

( i have poor spatial reasoning skills and have trouble visualising things unless they are in front of me so apologies if i am getting this ar@eways)

sydthebeat

tea and coffee wrote: »

Sydthebeat. If i turn the whole stairs 180 then the first and last step face into the room. What would support the balcony extension then as it would be in middle of balcony then. And how would a person get up the stairs as they would have to squeeze by the wall in order to enter the firsr step. Would 90 degrees not be better?

( i have poor spatial reasoning skills and have trouble visualising things unless they are in front of me so apologies if i am getting this ar@eways)

no i understand fully...

i assume at the moment the stairs is approx 2 foot wide? yes?
that means the bottom step would be approx 2 foot out from the wall.
if you want to gain more, youd have to decide if thats feasible with the new doors (slider or other wise) which are going in.

on the supporting of the balcony, well thats why you need to have an engineer on site. at this stage even a 45 degree turn anti clockwise would work if you pull the stair closer to the window

Mellor

knotknowbody wrote: »

If you do this will the first few steps not be under the balcony and thus create a bang your head off the underside of the balcony issue as you climb onto the third step, on even worse as your descending hit your forehead off the corner of it.

Did you look in the photo in the OP?
The platform and stairs are both rotating together. How could there be any change in the distances and relationship of the two?

knotknowbody wrote: »

Yes I understand that, the last step is pretty much directly above the first step, therefore if you exit the stair with the

Also regarding the balustrade preventing the face whcking- its the corner of the steps that catches you and the hand rail wont prevent that. For example, if u were to walk from where i took the photo towards that small internal window behind the stairs, you would have to duck/swerve to avoid the corner ofthe 7th step catching you upside the head.

There’s always going to be a step that you might bang your head off, no matter what way it faces. Or the hand rail. That’s something you have to accept with a spiral. In the existing, walking left to right across the first and seconds photos might see you bang your head if you try to walk “under” the middle steps.

What does anyone think of a curved metal (or wood) arch joining platform.to balcony to avoid the headroom issue whilst leaving stairs in current position as the cheaper option. Builder aays it prob weighs about 100stone or so, and so its a bigger job than my original "extend the balcony at side " idea (before i realised headroom issue)

Honestly, that’s an awful option. Firstly, it would look weird, but accepting that there’s a couple of major issue for me.
It would have to have a steep gradient to achieve the headroom. Which means it’d be difficult to walk on, increase slip risk etc. Spiral stairs are notoriously difficult to ascend, added what is essentially a short steep ramp into the top landing is asking for a nasty accident.

And arch is awful because its not level, I’m not sure why jumped to this, skipping the more obvious option of stepping up on a flat “bridge” between platform and balcony.
i.e. Raising the connecting bridge up a step (to the same height of the top of the propose arched bridge). This will give you extra headroom, and well as be far safer compared to the arch bridge. It’s still not ideal imo, but its by far a better option than the arch.


The stairs is probably 400-450kg, not 100 stone. And even so, it dismantles into manageable pieces - its not a big job to move it. I really think you should consider it.

glencoe

If the stairs was the opposite hand i.e. right hand up as against left hand (currently) it would make the walkway easy.
Obviously the supplier will not exchange without extra cost but have you checked out cost of exchanging or selling to someone else.
I know it will be expensive but unplanned changes are and other option maybe will be a bit of a f"""k up.
Other option is to remove some of the wall to the left of the opening and create a lobby/landing there and extend out part of the mezz floor.
None of it cheap but when project is complete you will be happier. hopefully

tea and coffee

Back again on this one. Leaving aside walloping your head off the corner of any steps...
If I turn it 90' degrees anticlockwise, around the central pole, the back edge of the platform will only be at edge of door frame, rendering door useless.
If I turn it 90' degrees clockwise, I'd have to come back over the stairs with a platform and back to having not enough headroom.
If I turn it 180, I won't be able to get up the steps, and the platform will have little or nothing to support it bar edge of balcony.
If I move the whole stairs to the right towards window, I can't get up steps. As it is there is only about 650mm between edge of first step closeset to window and window and there will be a sliding door there taking up more room.
If I move it to the left, it will work but I lose loads more space in the room and I have to cut a ruddy great hole in the balcony for headroom, as the lower steps will be under the balcony
Only other option that anyone can forsee is to go with option 1 /\ /\ I mentioned above there, and cut a new door onto balcony and block that current one up. This is the most expensive option, and it messes up that room upstairs- the door is in the best spot it can be at the moment.

Anyone any other brain waves? I am all out.

tea and coffee

Ok, just looking at it again...and again...and again....

If I move the central pole to the right corner of the door (i.e. 4pm rather its current 7pm) and rotate the stairs 90 degrees, then I have still got 650mm there as the first step is not jutting past the centre pole towards the window but rather towards the back wall. So the first step is round about where the return is on the bannister at the bottom of the stairs at the moment. The platform still crosses over the bottom of the door and then can be extended to jut across to balcony.

Is that it? Would that work? Have I overlooked something??