Knocking ditches - Is there restrictions

noworries2004

Hi all,

Just thinking about knocking some ditches to make fields bigger etc. Jsut wondering if there are any restricitions to doing this?

I think before REPS wouldnt let you knock dicthes but since that is up now is there anything else stopping me from doing it?

Cheers

bob charles

noworries2004 wrote: »

Hi all,

Just thinking about knocking some ditches to make fields bigger etc. Jsut wondering if there are any restricitions to doing this?

I think before REPS wouldnt let you knock dicthes but since that is up now is there anything else stopping me from doing it?

Cheers

depends on, what bigger fields are worth to you. Do you submit an SFP? I presume there is some hilter that is manager of the 'knocking hedges and making farmland more progressive' department that maybe after you. I removed some 2 years ago and never said naughting :rolleyes:

nashmach

Under GAEC, anything you have to take out you have to replace but I think there may be a lower threshold for such things as a new gap but you certainly can't make 4 5 acre fields into a 20 acre field.

Dampintheattic

Read here, http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/crosscompliance/landscapefeatures/Hedges%20and%20drains%2012%2008%2009.pdf

6600

nashmach wrote: »

Under GAEC, anything you have to take out you have to replace but I think there may be a lower threshold for such things as a new gap but you certainly can't make 4 5 acre fields into a 20 acre field.

Why not??

Reekwind

nashmach wrote: »

...you certainly can't make 4 5 acre fields into a 20 acre field.

Out of curiosity, what's the logic behind that?

endacl

6600 wrote: »

Why not??

Because land isn't stretchy?

nashmach

6600 wrote: »

Why not??

Read the link above.

You will need to replace the hedgerow removed with a similar length elsewhere.

6600

That is SFP rules. If you: A) have an inspection, the inspector cops a hedge removed, C) don't have it replaced somewhere else, then you may have a penalty in your SFP for one year. Talking to a department man he said max 15%. Big deal. So you have to weigh up the advantages in efficiency against the possible penalty.

There are separate environmental impact requirements that came in in 2011. Basically you can remove 500m without Dept screening, over that you need Department approval which are almost always successful. Over a much higher limit you will need a EIA report.

Under the old REPS scheme there was a requirement to maintain all existing field boundaries. Nothing to stop you widening or putting in a gap.

The amount of times I've heard lads say you can't knock a ditch or widen a gap is amazing. This is just an excuse to do nothing. Noone is stopping this you just have to go through the proper process now as opposed to the free for all that existed before. The advantages of bigger and better laid out fields are too many to list.

bob charles

nashmach wrote: »

Read the link above.

You will need to replace the hedgerow removed with a similar length elsewhere.

Wonder say if you remove 100m of hedgerow can you replace it by planting 100m of hedging along a poor existing fence.

kowtow

bob charles wrote: »

Wonder say if you remove 100m of hedgerow can you replace it by planting 100m of hedging along a poor existing fence.

Or under a power line route?

Capercaille

Reekwind wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what's the logic behind that?

Destroying wildlife. Most Farmland bird species are in steep decline due to rampant hedge removal. Even when people joined REPS they often removed a "few" hedges beforehand, since they wouldn't be allowed do it when they joined.

bob charles

Capercaille wrote: »

Destroying wildlife. Most Farmland bird species are in steep decline due to rampant hedge removal. Even when people joined REPS they often removed a "few" hedges beforehand, since they wouldn't be allowed do it when they joined.

"Rampant" - thats bull****, there is little or no hedge removal nowadays so if birds are in steep decline you better go away and come back with some other wishy washy reason. Excess competition is a problem for wildlife where there is allot over very small fields. I can remember my ecology lecturer mentioning that 2ha was ample size for a perfect eco system for birds. If anything more hedges have being planted in the last 10 years than removed. I for one have planted 500m of hedging having removed around 150m.

Capercaille

bob charles wrote: »

"Rampant" - thats bull****, there is little or no hedge removal nowadays so if birds are in steep decline you better go away and come back with some other wishy washy reason. Excess competition is a problem for wildlife where there is allot over very small fields. I can remember my ecology lecturer mentioning that 2ha was ample size for a perfect eco system for birds. If anything more hedges have being planted in the last 10 years than removed. I for one have planted 500m of hedging having removed around 150m.

Excess habitat (regarding hedges) is bad for farmland birds:rolleyes:. The converse is true.
What's nearly as bad as hedge removal nowadays is the way the hedges are maintained. The hedges are cut too short and often produce little or no berry crop for birds as a result.

Farmer Pudsey

Capercaille wrote: »

Destroying wildlife. Most Farmland bird species are in steep decline due to rampant hedge removal. Even when people joined REPS they often removed a "few" hedges beforehand, since they wouldn't be allowed do it when they joined.

bob charles wrote: »

"Rampant" - thats bull****, there is little or no hedge removal nowadays so if birds are in steep decline you better go away and come back with some other wishy washy reason. Excess competition is a problem for wildlife where there is allot over very small fields. I can remember my ecology lecturer mentioning that 2ha was ample size for a perfect eco system for birds. If anything more hedges have being planted in the last 10 years than removed. I for one have planted 500m of hedging having removed around 150m.

The biggest threat to small birds is Crows and Magpies. There is no control policy in place for them. We have no wildlife culling policy in place where one species interferes with another. It is the same with Sika/Red deer issue. With Crows/Magpies it is a serious issue there numbers are uncontroled over a long period and they attack the nests of other birds destroying Eggs and fledging's

We have had no serious hedge removal in Ireland compare our landscape to the UK or France where you see fields of 100's of acres. In Ireland a 20 acre field is quite large. Very few land holding have fewer than 6 divisions that are more often than not seperated by permenant hedges/ditches/dyke

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

nashmach wrote: »

Read the link above.

You will need to replace the hedgerow removed with a similar length elsewhere.

some ting happened us a few years ago, we removed an 80 yard wall and were told we had to plant a hedge in its place

delaval

Capercaille wrote: »

Destroying wildlife. Most Farmland bird species are in steep decline due to rampant hedge removal. Even when people joined REPS they often removed a "few" hedges beforehand, since they wouldn't be allowed do it when they joined.

Which hedge row species are in decline??

nashmach

Never before has this country seen such widespread planting of trees given these options under AEOS and REPS.

I for one cannot understand why anyone would say birds are under threat.

As Farmer Pudsey has said it is more due to predator species such as magpies which are simply an epidemic now - Larsen trap here for two weeks per month and at least 10 magpies each time!

hugo29

delaval wrote: »

Which hedge row species are in decline??

none, they all moved to the sheds where its warmer:D

Dampintheattic

nashmach wrote: »

Never before has this country seen such widespread planting of trees given these options under AEOS and REPS.

I for one cannot understand why anyone would say birds are under threat.

As Farmer Pudsey has said it is more due to predator species such as magpies which are simply an epidemic now - Larsen trap here for two weeks per month and at least 10 magpies each time!

Stew or roast:cool:

nashmach

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Stew or roast:cool:

Neither

Rovi

<much snippage>

[MOD]

Let's keep it above the waistline and out of the gutter, huh?

[/MOD]

Capercaille

delaval wrote: »

Which hedge row species are in decline??

Kestrel, Stock dove, Cuckoo, Barn owl, Song thrush, Whinchat, Whitethroat, Grasshopper warbler, Spotted flycatcher, Starling, Tree sparrow, Linnet, Greenfinch, Bullfinch, yellowhammer and Corn Bunting which is now sadly extinct. Agricultural intensification have also had an effect on their numbers.

Birdnuts

Capercaille wrote: »

Kestrel, Stock dove, Cuckoo, Barn owl, Song thrush, Whinchat, Whitethroat, Grasshopper warbler, Spotted flycatcher, Starling, Tree sparrow, Linnet, Greenfinch, Bullfinch, yellowhammer and Corn Bunting which is now sadly extinct. Agricultural intensification have also had an effect on their numbers.

The blame for this is not with individual farmers but with the likes of the Dept of Agriculture, Teagasc etc. who shape farming policies. Including ones that over the years actively encouraged the destruction of various farmland habitats.
Instead of rubbing up people the wrong way here on these issues I think it would be more productive to encourage the powers that be to reward farmers that do the right thing in this area with more funding for Pillar 2 and other agri-environmental incentives

PS: As others have pointed out farmers have sown a lot of hedging over the years and deserve a lot of credit. Sure there are ones who have takin the p8ss in some circumstance, but that should not be used to condemn a whole sector

Rovi

<more snippage>


[MOD]

Enough!

First it was the smutty schoolboy nonsense, and now it's back-and-forth trolling and personal attacks.
Time to draw a line under this one, thread closed.

[/MOD]