Will I ever accept being gay?

willblackberry

Well to start off with I am nearly a 21 year old lad from a small town.
When I was about 13/14 I just tough that guys chased girls and that was it and I just thought that the way things worked and I said to myself I will get more attracted to girls when I am a bit older. I did know what being gay was and I didn't have a problem with people who were gay.
I suppose the first time I knew that I was different was when I was at the beginning of second year which would have being 2006. This new teacher came to our school and he was young and good looking and he sort of made me turn my head in a way but I never thought that I was gay. As the years went on I just could not find girls attractive and tried but it just wouldn't work. I pretty much knew it then that I liked guys and I hated it and I didn't want anyone finding out. At the time I was popular with the cool people in secondary school and I was one of the lads.
In early 2008 about two lads came out in school and they got a bit of stick from people about it but they were from a different group of friends that I was from and Ill be honest some of the guys I got on with gave them hassle at the time I did try and talk to these guys but we were totally different people. They were into being out and proud and they went around screaming with high pitched voices about desperate housewives,ugly Betty and other stuff. I used had nothing in common with these guys at all and I said to myself 'will your not gay you can't be.
So I sort of put it to the back of my head then and I moved on flash forward to late 2010. I met this guy online. He was from a town about 60 miles away and we hit it off pretty fast. We were both into cars the same type of films/ music and I got on well with him. He was the sort of the guy I could bring on a night out with my friends from home and he wouldn't blab about being gay or start coming onto to me in front of people. We got on so well that I said to myself why don't you just come out to my friends first and see how it went I knew that thing's might be a bit different with some people but I was grand with that. So I said to myself I'll do it after Christmas.
I was unsure how my parents would take it so I said I might hold off for a while with them. However over the Christmas Holiday my brother who is 10 years older than me was visiting home. I don't really get along with him to be honest we are different people. This is slightly to do with the age difference and we always were different. We always had different interests and never really had much to talk about. My friends meet my brother in 2005 and they told me he was defiantly gay by the the way he acted and the sound of his voice I taught they were taking the piss but he was always sort of stereotypical gay. This Christmas he was at home and he came out to my parents and myself. I told him I was cool about it and to do what ever he wanted. My mam told him as long as he was happy they were happy. So he went away happy enough. My mam was upset tough and she didn't want to have a gay son because she was worried about the lifestyle and that he wouldn't be happy and also she knew he would never marry and have a family. She was always though he would and still to this day when she is asked by her friends if he has met anyone she says not yet but he'll meet the right girl eventually. My mam goes to mass a lot as does her friends and I don't think it would be accepted by them really.
Ever since then I put the idea of being gay out of my head and I decided to be straight. I said t myself that my mam especially doesn't deserve to have two gay son's and no grand kids. So I gave up on that guy that I was kind of seeing and put my gay feelings behind me.
I started college in September 2011 and I met loads of people and I met loads of new people and I feel in with of people I liked. They were into the same things I was and I was actually happy. I got close with loads of women and I said to myself you must be straight. There was one girl in particular that I liked and we slept together and I met her family and everyone was telling us we were the perfect couple. I liked her but after a while I knew it wasn't fair on her so we broke up but we are still good friends.
In college I thought that I was going to meet loads of different people and that they were going to be different from secondary school. This was not the case. There was still a lot of homophobia in college and I really experienced this with the people I was friends with. The word f*g and p*ff is always used. I also thought that I might met gay guys that I might get on with and I was open to make friends with them but we just didn't click. We would talk to one another ever now and then but we wouldn't really be friends really.
One night we had a class party and these were always on in a straight club but a girl decided to have in one of the gay clubs for the gay lads on a particular night. Most of the class head out as did I. I wasn't planning on shifting anyone. But I had a chance to go there so I could see what it's like. So I found that the actually place and the music was grand but I am more of a pub sort of guy anyway. Anyway when we were there a few guys came onto to me and my friends and we just said we were straight but The campness there made me feel really uncomfortable and there was a few men in there 50's who kept on hitting on us and this made me feel sick. I left the club that with a very bad impression and for one of the first times in my life I cried myself to sleep because I was wondering would my life ever be normal. I also joined gaydar for a couple of months but I gave up paying the members ship because the only people on there were looking for hook ups for sex and this would not be me. I am not a religious guy but I would not jump into bed with any one.
So at the moment in my life I am really lonely and down to be honest and I wonder will I ever meet any one who I would actually like. I often say to myself will lad just be straight you'll get used to it but I don't think this is possible. I also know and this is a major reason for me wanting to be straight. It would really break my parents hearts knowing that they had two gay sons. They would feel like failures my mam still hopes that my brother will met a girl and settle down. I just don't know what to do any more?
Sorry if I offended anybody in my post!
Any advice?
Will

smcgiff

Really sorry to hear your story. I cannot imagine your mum is going to want you to live a lie either.

There are as much different gay types as straight. Doesn't seem like you are into older or camp men. But you'll surely find someone that is your type.

Definitely don't act straight - even for your mum.

Oh, try and be more careful with your friends. I can't imagine having any friends that had such a negative attitude towards gay men.

Would you consider moving to a larger city, away from your mum?

Best of luck.

willblackberry

smcgiff wrote: »

Oh, try and be more careful with your friends. I can't imagine having any friends that had such a negative attitude towards gay men.

Would you consider moving to a larger city, away from your mum?

Best of luck.

Thanks, I actually moved away from home for college but I go home at the weekends and stuff.
The thing with my friends tough is I actually get on with them the only problem is that I am gay.

p.s Sorry for the really long post!!

Nelly 21

willblackberry wrote: »

Thanks, I actually moved away from home for college but I go home at the weekends and stuff.
The thing with my friends tough is I actually get on with them the only problem is that I am gay.

p.s Sorry for the really long post!!

I had to comment on this. You say the only problem is that you are Gay. I know know Ireland can be a small minded country but most people don't see gay people as being a problem. I am so sorry that you are going through what you are going through. In my opinion being gay is as normal as being straight. You are who you are and thats that. I know thats easy for me to say and I know this sounds funny to say but when you're out you're out. You can't live your life for your mother. I'm sure at the back of it all she wants her children to be happy.

smcgiff

willblackberry wrote: »

Thanks, I actually moved away from home for college but I go home at the weekends and stuff.
The thing with my friends tough is I actually get on with them the only problem is that I am gay.

p.s Sorry for the really long post!!

But, the problem you have with being gay could stem from your mates' attitude. But, of course these friends are important in your life.

Any chance of getting back in touch with the guy you mentioned above?

Petey89

Hey, I pretty much had the same experience in life as you im 23 now, knew I was gay in school but couldn't tell anyone, Like you I tried to be straight had a girl friend for a while couldn't bring myself to sleep with her though I knew it just wouldn't work. I tried the dating sites and yeah most people just looked for sex. Not really into camp guys or older men either. When I was 20 I had just had enough and one night I just came out to my mam she was totally cool with it soon after everyone found out.
I got a few negative comments but just from the usual scumbags around the town. But I think coming out was the best thing I ever did. I met my current bf after that together nearly 3 years now and happier than I ever was before. Coming out was the best thing I ever did. I think you should too and if you loose some friends, well then they were not really your friends in the first place. you need people who will fully accept who you really are and make you feel safe.
As for your mam im sure she will be fine, she will be happy if you are happy. as for grand kids there always adoption in the future Hope this helps sorry if its a bit long.

Nelly 21

Petey89 wrote: »

Hey, I pretty much had the same experience in life as you im 23 now, knew I was gay in school but couldn't tell anyone, Like you I tried to be straight had a girl friend for a while couldn't bring myself to sleep with her though I knew it just wouldn't work. I tried the dating sites and yeah most people just looked for sex. Not really into camp guys or older men either. When I was 20 I had just had enough and one night I just came out to my mam she was totally cool with it soon after everyone found out.
I got a few negative comments but just from the usual scumbags around the town. But I think coming out was the best thing I ever did. I met my current bf after that together nearly 3 years now and happier than I ever was before. Coming out was the best thing I ever did. I think you should too and if you loose some friends, well then they were not really your friends in the first place. you need people who will fully accept who you really are and make you feel safe.
As for your mam im sure she will be fine, she will be happy if you are happy. as for grand kids there always adoption in the future Hope this helps sorry if its a bit long.

This is an inspirational story for anyone who finds themselves in this situation! Best of luck and happiness to you and your partner!!

Wibbles19

Listen pet, as a Mammy, don't underestimate yours. All we want want is happy healthy babies and the fact that you are able to articulate your feelings is a total win win. Move on and enjoy.

jaydoxx

What I would always say to someone struggling to come out is "if you're in no danger to do so then do it." You don't have to shout it from the rooftops, but you do have to start living life for yourself cos life's way too short to be living it for someone else. I'm not gonna tell you that it's always easy and everyone in your life will understand but when you accept yourself you won't worry about what others think of you.

I heard a really moving speech from a comedian who said something along the lines of "silence equals nonexistence". If we stay quiet, stay hidden, it was like we never existed at all. If I wasn't out of the closet then some people I know might still think all the wrong and horrible things they used to think about gay people, and so my being out has made life easier for myself and others. So I say go out and exist, live life like you matter and you will matter.

Pai Mei

To answer the thread title "Will I ever accept being gay?" I would say that you should accept it, not for anybody else's sake but for your own. Although you may feel like this is easier said than done, you won't be able to move on and have a good life if you don't accept it as it isn't something that you can just sweep under the rug. The fact is you cannot change it and therefore it would be better if you stopped worrying about what your mother might think or how your friends will react. I won't lie, it will be tough on you but in the long run you'll be happy you did it and you may just find someone that is truly right for you to share your life with.

willblackberry

Thanks for the replies guys.
I think I sort of painted a really bad picture of my mother. I think she would accept me eventually but I think she would love to have grand kids and she would kind of deserve them. My dad is a bit more old school but you would just not mention it.
I think my main problem is I actually want to start a family and have a family and be normal. Being gay to me just feels weird and I would loose the friend ships that I have because of it. It would just never be the same with these guys if they found out the truth. If I could change in the morning I would do it without even thinking.

jaydoxx

willblackberry wrote: »

I think my main problem is I actually want to start a family and have a family and be normal. Being gay to me just feels weird and I would loose the friend ships that I have because of it. It would just never be the same with these guys if they found out the truth. If I could change in the morning I would do it without even thinking.

Being gay is normal. I wouldn't wreck my chances of having a family with someone I loved over some "friends" who don't don't accept and love me, why should you?

Pai Mei

willblackberry wrote: »

I think my main problem is I actually want to start a family and have a family and be normal. Being gay to me just feels weird and I would loose the friend ships that I have because of it. It would just never be the same with these guys if they found out the truth. If I could change in the morning I would do it without even thinking.

There is nothing to say that you can't start a family as a gay man. That may not seem "normal" to you but being gay doesn't mean that you can't have a family.
Also when you say you'll lose the friendships that you have because of it then those friends are not worth having in my opinion. That may seem clichéd but it's true. If they can't accept you then you shouldn't have to conform just to please them.
I myself and I'm sure others have wished that they weren't gay but its just something that you will have to learn to live with. I myself am not completely out yet as not everybody knows about me and to be honest I would rather not have to tell them but it's about more than being accepted by others, it's more about accepting who you are; and you won't be truly happy until you can accept it yourself.

floggg

Hi there,

Just a couple of things occurred to me while reading your post, which I'll put down here in no particular order.

From the sounds of things, you know that you are gay and you know that you will never be able to straight, as much as you might wish or try.

So I guess you need to think is it worth it to deny yourself and live a lie in order to conform to other's expectations. From the sounds of your past experiences, I think you probably aren't the type to string somebody along just for the sake of appearances. So ultimately denying who you are still isn't going to give your parents what you think the want most - grandchildren and the "typical straight married life for you."

Even if you could bring yourself to fake it, is it worth putting yourself through it, never mind your wife and kids?

Even at that, are you so sure that your mother and father would prefer grandchildren over your own happiness and well being. While I'm sure your mother might have her views and would IDEALLY prefer you and your brother to be straight, I imagine she loves you deeply and ultimately what is most important to her is your own happiness. I know most mother's would gladly give their life to see their children happy, and I am sure she is no different.

It might take her some time to get over things and changed expectations, and to see the realities of the situation (which is probably very alien to hr generation), but I imagine her preference would for you to be true to yourself and to try and build the life that will give you the most enjoyment and fulfillment, rather than sacrificing your chances at happiness in order to do what you think she wants from you.

Your post brought to mind this piece wrote by a mother about her regrets over the way she handled her son's coming out, and the tragic consequences for him - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-robertson/just-because-he-breathes-learning-to-truly-love-our-gay-son_b_3478971.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

Now this is obviously an extreme example, but I think it is worth reading (and possibly also your mother reading in due course).

While your mother might think at this stage things would be better for you all if you were straight, once she realises that that is not an option, she'll realise the best possible outcome is for her to love, embrace and support you.

As you need to realise that its not possible for you to conform to her desires, and that trying to make yourself do so will only cheat you of a life and happiness, and her with the chance to see her son genuinely happy and fulfilled.


I also wouldn't say she "deserves" grandkids. Think about it - if you were infertile, would she make you feel bad about it or pressure you to adopt just for her own sake? Or if you were straight but didn't want children, would you do it just for her sake? Would you bring a life into this world just for the sake of keeping somebody else happy?

Ultimately it's your life and you have to live it, not her.


In any event, being gay doesn't preclude a family. Your not even 21 at this stage - by the time you are 30 and ready to start a family (even if you were straight), I have no doubt but that marriage equality will be a reality in Ireland, and if you want a family you can do so - whether through surrogacy, adoption or fostering. It might be a little bit more difficult, but if you want a family so badly that you would risk an unhappy life just to have one, then surely you should be willing to jump through a few legal hoops.


With regards to your friends, I would echo comment that if they won't accept you for who you really are, then they aren't worth it. Not only that, they aren't really your friends. Friends are meant to make your life richer - but if you need to deny who you are and deny yourself happiness to have them in your life, then they are ultimately only making you unhappy.

That said, I wouldn't take the casual homophobia most young men often use too seriously. We all hear "that's so gay" or "******" thrown around very lightly, though often there isn't much thought given to its impact. I know that, like many others here, I heard my friends use those terms quite regularly before I came out. However, when I did come out, they were for the most part extremely supportive, and I realised that the language didn't always reflect their true feelings on the matter.


Lastly, with regard to your experience in the gay bar, and your feelings with regard to campness etc, I think that reaction is common to a lot of closeted or insecure gay men.

I think the dislike that many people seem to display towards camp people is partly due to the fact that camp gay men seem to be the cliched representation of the very thing the hate or dislike about themselves - being gay. So they react adversely to somebody who seemingly has no issue in publicly displaying the very thing about themselves that they most want to change or hide.

And it feeds into their fears about how they will be seen if people know that they are gay - that they will henceforth be defined by their sexuality in the eyes of others or that they will be seen as feminine or less of a man.

Another aspect is that you feel like you can never relate to these people, as the just seem to be so different to you in all aspects except their sexuality. The seem to reaffirm the stereotype that all gay men are like Jack from Will and Grace - but you don't really fit that stereotype so you wonder will you ever fit anywhere.

The thing is, when you first reluctantly venture on the scene, you tend to only see the extremes, who only reinforce your negative perception. The "normal" gay people, who are in fact the vast majority of gay people, don't stand out and so don't grab your attention in the same way.

All you can focus on is the stereotypes, so you seem to fear that that's all there is to the scene.

I think that happens to a lot of people at first, but over time they get to see that things aren't really all that extreme. And they get to meet the normal unassuming guys that they never noticed because they were too busy focusing on the cliches. And then they realise that there are plenty of people just like them there.

And they realise that once they get over their own issues, the camp guy isn't actually all that camp, isn't all that annoying, and is actually a pretty decent guy.

Heck, they might just end up going out with him!

While I wouldn't call my bf camp, he is a lot "gayer" than I am, and when I came out first 2 years ok I don't think I would have been comfortable enough in myself to be able to get into a relationship with him. I would have found the "gayer" aspects of his personality to annoying and "gay" for my liking.

But now that i have gotten over most of my BS insecurities (most of those described above), I love him to bits and think he's the most amazing person in the world. I wouldn't change a thing about him.

I think the same might be true to an extent with the older guys hitting on you - they seem to confirm the stereotype of the sad lonely promiscious life of gay men, and that they never settle down or have a family.

But again, those types just tend to stand out more and cause you alarm. But the older couple who have been together for 20 years just don't stand out as much, sitting quietly together in the corner. Or indeed sitting at home together, or with friends, or their children and family.

So I wouldn't let your first fearful foray's into a gay bar scare you off.

And in any event, I wouldn't discount the possibility that the "pervy old men" hitting on you and your friends weren't having a great laugh at the uncomfortable straight guys on their first trip to a gay bar.


Sorry for the length, but I hope it's some help. Feel free to PM if you want.

FiachDubh

Woah.
OK, with my limited emotional experience i think your main problem is that you don't want to be gay because you're bro is.
If your brother had not come out, and you had, do you think you would have gotten over the acceptance issue? And what's more if you had come out first, would your brother have stayed in the closet?

I don't have any experience of the gay scene (too young).... i don't even know any gay guys. However on a recent trip to dublin i passed the aviava, the night rihanna was playing and i saw these these two gay lads holding hands and wearing skinny jeans. One of them was putting makeup on his lips with his free hand and the other was making one of those "fabulous" hand gestures, y'know, like a cat swatting a hand. And it really made me uncomfortable and i had that "I'm too manly to be gay" thought that seems to be running through your mind.
I'm hoping to be more out at college, that bit you said about college people being as unaccepting as secondary school students scared me a bit.

But here, i don't think you should lessen the quality of your life for the sake of your ma's hopes of a daughter in law.You only have one life- you can either spend it failing to be straight or accepting that you are who you are and to f*ck with people's opinions and stereotypes.

I hope you get passed this soon man.

Beruthiel

willblackberry wrote: »

I think I sort of painted a really bad picture of my mother. I think she would accept me eventually but I think she would love to have grand kids and she would kind of deserve them.

Speaking as a mother myself, I didn't have my daughter so she could produce some grandchildren for me.
That's not my call or my decision to make.
I cannot project my expectations onto her.
She has to live her own life in what ever way makes her the happiest.
I get the feeling that your Ma thinks the same. She just wants her son to be happy.

It's time for you to quit carrying the world on your shoulders.
I live my life according to my own wishes, not the wishes of my parents. I expect my daughter to do the same.
I expect you to do the same.
If you don't, you will be miserable. What's the point in that?
You get to live only once.
If you do not come to terms with who you are and what you need in order to by happy, then again, what's the point to your life?

As for being normal, whatever you imagine that is, it's not.
You are no more normal or abnormal than the rest of us.

Being gay to me just feels weird and I would loose the friend ships that I have because of it.

It only feels weird because you have convinced yourself that it is.
I don't consider it weird.
What difference does it make who you love? Being loved is all that matters.

As for loosing friends over it, they might surprise you.
If they can't handle it, they were never a friend to begin with, so no loss there.
Whatever the future holds for you, it's not going to be anything as bad as you appear to be imagining.
Take the risk, you won't be sorry.
Best of luck.

willblackberry

Thanks for the replies guys!
Well to start off with I do like the people I am friends with but these are country lads and a lot of them just wouldn't get the gay thing. The thing is I find these guys really funny and sound and we would always stand up for one another if anybody ever had a problem.
I actually don't really get on with my brother. He was always a but more camp than me but that's not the issue. I always found that we didn't get on because our interests are just totally different. I could never see myself talking to him about being gay.
I wonder tough would I ever fit into the gay scene to be honest because even since my brother came out he has started wearing flowering shirts around and the photos on facebook he has with out guys are just not my thing. When I was on gaydar I got a lot of attention of guys who were a lot older looking for sex with a young lad. These guys were married and I just found this disgusting EVEN The young guys on there only ever talked about cock size and sex.
Is there any gay bar out there that is like a normal bar. My experience of the gay bar was really off putting..

FiachDubh wrote: »

I'm hoping to be more out at college, that bit you said about college people being as unaccepting as secondary school students scared me a bit.

College is better than secondary as regards people being out and open about there sexuality. I simply just didn't click with the guys that were gay because they were all hand gestures and bitchy. I would say the girls in the class were more open to them than the the straight guys. But the lads were friendly to there face but they were horrible behind there back. The stuff that was said about them was horrible say that if they had there way they would be lined up and shot. People said this in front of me thinking that I was a straight lad but would they have if they knew I was gay? No. I would even have being invited along to these parties.
So this really shows me what a lot of people think of gay guys behind there back. This is part of the reason why I hate being gay so much because I know that people would hate me so much because I was gay. I would also loose out on so much I wouldn't be invited or asked to these places anymore. Even going to the pub the conversation would be so different. We always spend a lot of the time talking about women and who's hot etc. I find this great crack and all these elements of my life would be gone.

Pai Mei

willblackberry wrote: »

This is part of the reason why I hate being gay so much because I know that people would hate me so much because I was gay.

You mention hate twice as regards you being gay and how others would hate you being gay. If you are serious about actually hating the fact that you are gay it might help to talk to someone, maybe a counsellor or something. I don't want to offend you or anyone by saying you should talk to a counsellor but it could help you to get to the bottom of things and maybe you could then learn to accept yourself, because as was said before you can't change being gay. But again hope I'm not overstepping the line or anything.

Plus if say that none of the camp thing appeals to you and all that then it is possible that if you do come out to your friends that they might realise that being gay doesn't mean that you are going to change. Maybe if they see that you are still the same person and not like all the other "camp gays" then maybe their attitudes might change and you can still go to all the parties you love so much . But as I said before self acceptance is key.

smcgiff

These friends - awkward question alert. Do you have a crush on any of them?

willblackberry

smcgiff wrote: »

These friends - awkward question alert. Do you have a crush on any of them?

No! This is part of the problem I could be accused of attracted to these guys when I wouldn't be take for instance if we ever went to a gig or some way away from home on a night out we'd all stay in the one hotel room and get ready before we headed out. This would all be gone because I would be accused of being attracted to these guys!!

smcgiff

willblackberry wrote: »

No! This is part of the problem I could be accused of attracted to these guys when I wouldn't be take for instance if we ever went to a gig or some way away from home on a night out we'd all stay in the one hotel room and get ready before we headed out. This would all be gone because I would be accused of being attracted to these guys!!

I asked because I used hang out and was friends with girls, which on occassion spilled into more.

Unless you maybe see them as brothers or such it would make sense that you'd fancy them. Why wouldn't you. I do see where this wound be a problem. I suppose it's also not beyond the bounds of possibility that one of them is also gay but afraid to come out like you.

Pai Mei

This is kind of a hang up that many straight guys get about gay guys, i.e. that they are automatically attracted to them. Just make it clear that you're not and you could do it in a joking way by just slagging them about being ugly or whatever :pac:

floggg

smcgiff wrote: »

I asked because I used hang out and was friends with girls, which on occassion spilled into more.

Unless you maybe see them as brothers or such it would make sense that you'd fancy them. Why wouldn't you. I do see where this wound be a problem. I suppose it's also not beyond the bounds of possibility that one of them is also gay but afraid to come out like you.

Bull****. Utter bull****.

Gay men aren't all out of control lustful cock monsters. We are more than capable of just being friends with straight people.

That sort of crap isn't going to help the OP. it's only going to make him more paranoid - unnecessarily so.


OP, if your friends aren't all immature children, it shouldn't make any difference at all and they should realise that you aren't about to jump their bones.




Honestly OP, do you think you will be happier on 20 years time if you are

(a) in a happy, open gay relationship with support from family and friends (even if they are new friends); or

(b) still closeted for the sake of your "friends", who you say less and less of because they put their happiness over yours (in the normal course) and started relationships and ultimately families?

Where are you in college OP?

Beruthiel

willblackberry wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys!
Well to start off with I do like the people I am friends with but these are country lads and a lot of them just wouldn't get the gay thing. The thing is I find these guys really funny and sound and we would always stand up for one another if anybody ever had a problem.

Take it from someone who is twice your age, friends come and go.
Everyone changes as they grow and get older. As a result of that, we all tend to loose people along the way and make new friends who we have more in common with.
That's normal and natural.

Most importantly, you CANNOT live your life according to your friends. The whole point of having a good friend is that they accept you for who you are, not who you pretend to be.

If you continue to live your life as you do now, you will be unhappy, miserable and wasting your precious life.
Don't you want to be happy?

I simply just didn't click with the guys that were gay because they were all hand gestures and bitchy.

That's like me saying I met a few women, they were all bitchy, so now I'm never going to associate with any woman ever again.

You are tarring every gay person in the world with the same brush.
In fact, you are doing your level best to talk yourself out of admitting that you are gay.

floggg

Beruthiel wrote: »

In fact, you are doing your level best to talk yourself out of admitting that you are gay.

I think this is definitely the case - and I can understand where he's coming from.

I think ultimately the person needs to accept it themselves before they can take what might seem like such life altering steps as coming out etc.

Eventually he'll get there, but until he's ready to accept it there's not much we can ultimately do to help other than be a sympathetic ear.

bikeman1

OP, I was in your exact position three years ago about the fear of coming out to my friends. My brother isn't gay, but that shouldn't matter. You are your own person after all.

Some of my friends at the time used to be extremely homophobic and said all the bad things about being gay. It used to enrage me. I didn't have a problem being gay, but I feared I would loose the lads, being the same as them. Talking about normal lads things from cars to girls football rugby and what not.

Fast forward 3 years, I am totally open to everyone, noone says one bad thing about being gay. All are very supportive. Even the toughest and hardest of lads don't give a ****. We still go on as normal.

My bf sits amongst them from time to time with some of their girlfriends. Rightly nobody gives a ****.

And even more recently one of my good friends who was going out with a girl for 5 years and we all thought would get married, came out as bisexual.

If knew things would be as they are now over 3 years ago I would have said f##k off, no way.

So I would say, give your friends some credit, show them that like me, not all gay guys are raging queens and your the same guy as always, just its lads not girls that you like.

Petey89

all my friends are country lads and I feared I would loose them when I came out. They really surprised me when I did no problems what so ever. they just wanted me to be happy. We still go to the local when im around and still have the same conversations as we did before nothing has changed.

LegacyUser

Couple of things:

From my experience, in Ireland these days, a lot of homphobia is "aesthetic". It's looking, acting and talking "gay" that attracts homophobic responses, not really the actual fact of being gay. Stereotypically gay behaviour disturbs certain people's deep-seated sense of gender norms. It's probably not dissimilar to people being disgusted by even straight public shows of affection. Some people internalize rules of behaviour deeper than others.

If you ask these people why they hate gays, they'll probably come up with nothing better than "it's just not natural". The obvious response to that being - there's a huge number of gay, lesbian and bi people in the world; what's more natural, being who you are or faking it to fit in?

Sometimes I also think homophobia has an element of popularity to it. I wonder to what extent being socially well liked shields people from homophobia and whether homophobic behaviour is a way to get rid of those who are not well liked.
I've said it before to closeted guys, that overall their mates might actually accept it pretty well, but to be wary of any member of the group that not so secretly hates you beforehand. They may use your sexual orientation as a way to drive a wedge between yourself and the others.

Also, if you don't have one good friend who you think will accept you for who you are and keep your secret, then maybe you should be on the lookout for better friends anyway?

As far as your mother is concerned, as long as hiding your sexual orientation from her isn't impinging on your life, I'd keep it from her for just a little longer. It would give you some time to think about what you really want out of life. Maybe by the time you come out to her, it would be easier for gay men to adopt children together? Or maybe you'll be confident that you'll one day have the money to father your own children via surrogacy?

It's a shame you couldn't have gone to one of the boards student meet-ups. They seem to have an almost therapeutic effect on young gay/bi men.

Locker10a

I hear ya OP ! I thought college would be such an open and accepting place, and well it can be but that doesn't come automatically unfortunately, and your group of friends in school and college feels like the world to you and that things will never be different from what they are now, but things do change, college ends, people move on with their lives, they move away, get married, some die, some have huge careers, some dont, but life always moves on, and friends become people we used to know and strangers become new friends!
I know you love the mates you have right now! I love my mates, and id love if we could never grow old and continue having the craic without a care in the world everyday but thats not an option, i know i will loose contact with allot of my current friends and i know i will make new friends thats just how life goes! So dont worry about what your current friends think, "Understand that friends come and go, but with a precious few you should hold on" :- Mary Schmich. The friends that will always be in your life will not care about you being gay. In fact friends who know you are gay and dont care and support you are truly good friends that you should hold on to.

willblackberry

Thanks for the advice guys.
I do think my mam would accept it eventually but I don't think se would be happy that she had two gay sons. She is of a generation that she would feel like it was here fault. One thing I do know is that you'd often fear about guys being gay because they were gay because they well close to there mother and not to there father. This in my case is correct.
I am also wondering is there any gay bars out there that would be straight acting. Most of the pictures I've seen online remind me of the one I was in a!!

willblackberry

I have being getting a lot of hassle off an admin on this site because I posted here when I was younger and I didn't really take the advice back then. I explained that I wanted to start a fresh with this new account and be open and give being gay and getting a bit of advice a really go at this time. It looks like it was not meant to be and I don't know how things will pan out for me.
I would like to thank all the people who did give advice tough and that trued there best.

LegacyUser

Hey,

Just wanted to chime in and say that my older brother is also gay, he came out first, and we are my parents only children so I can understand some of what you're going through there. It's a little different because I've never heard my parents say anything about wanting grandkids, but I did feel like I was trapped in his shadow. I felt he had made things even harder for me because I wouldn't just be telling them that I was gay anymore, I'd be telling them that both of their sons are gay, which felt like a lot of extra pressure.

That made it harder to accept myself for a time but I eventually realised that my happiness had to come before anyones elses expectations, and my parents of all people would want to see me happy. So I bit the bullet and told them just after I graduated college. They responded by saying "That's ok, we're glad you felt you could tell us". Life has gone on as normal since and they've been very welcoming to my boyfriend, treating him as part of family since day one.

You don't owe your parents grandkids, you owe it to yourself to be happy.

Pai Mei

Not to sound blunt but "it was not meant to be" is just a way for you to put this whole "being gay" thing out of your mind again. All members on boards are here to give you advice but ultimately it is up to you. Things will "pan out" the way you decide to let them pan out and continued denial is only going to make it worse for you in the future.

Annasopra

willblackberry wrote: »

I have being getting a lot of hassle off an admin on this site because I posted here when I was younger and I didn't really take the advice back then. I explained that I wanted to start a fresh with this new account and be open and give being gay and getting a bit of advice a really go at this time. It looks like it was not meant to be and I don't know how things will pan out for me.
I would like to thank all the people who did give advice tough and that trued there best.

Apologies folks

The OP is a rereg

normal lad

mango salsa wrote: »

Apologies folks

The OP is a rereg

The guy was only looking for advice why had he to close his account? From his opening post is was obv he is going through a tough time....why didn't u let him get a bit of help instead of taking out the black book...


p.s. don't ban me

Annasopra

normal lad wrote: »

The guy was only looking for advice why had he to close his account? From his opening post is was obv he is going through a tough time....why didn't u let him get a bit of help instead of taking out the black book...


p.s. don't ban me

Sorry moderation is never discussed on thread. He closed the account himself. I can't answer any further questions on this.

jaydoxx

For anyone looking for a very casual gay bar, and I'm not being paid to say this btw but the Pantibar, although run by the most fabulous drag queen in the country is always very low key as far as clientele. And they have a pool table, the measure of a good bar as far as I'm concerned haha

Unsurewhattodo

Hi Will, I know you've closed your account but perhaps you're still checking this thread. I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time. You remind me of a friend of mine only he's mid-30s.

He first experimented at 19, came out to friends and siblings, kissed a number of guys, had a short relationship and then explained it away as drug induced experimentation. Only dated girls for a few years.

Then mid-20s he decided as the urges had not gone away to explore things more fully. Sought out a gay flatmate, began dating a friend of his, they were together for two/three years, came out again, brought the boyfriend home to meet the parents as a "friend", met his boyfriends parents & siblings, put him through emotional hell, dumped him, and identified as bisexual with a preference for women. Only dated women for a few years.

Now he's broken up with his girlfriend of a few years and is identifying as gay for the third time. Once again he's told his friends and family and is dating men. Hopefully, he's closer to accepting himself this time.

At 19 he worried about acceptance from friends but they're all still there fifteen years later. At 25 he worried about his parents but although he's never had an open conversation with them about it (they'd be very respectful of privacy and wouldn't bring it up) his dad did pull him aside at the time of his boyfriend's visit and tell him that they loved him and were proud of him regardless of anything (he knew he meant his sexuality though not actually mentioned).

So why is he 34 and still struggling? Well he says it's telling his parents, he says it's telling people from work (I work with him, genuinely no one would be negative, if anything very supportive) ... I think the most difficult thing is to accept yourself. He still hasn't fully done so. He's known since his teens that he likes men, he has acknowledged numerous times over the years that he doesn't really find women attractive at all (and has to imagine men when having sex with a woman), his friends support him, his family supports him ... But he doesn't want to be gay. Unfortunately, he's caused tremendous hurt to the men and women who've loved him over the years. Most particularly his recent girlfriend who's also mid-30s and had no idea!

Maybe being gay wasn't what you'd imagined for yourself. Maybe it's not how you'd ideally view your future. Maybe the stereotypes associated with it are not how you see yourself. Forget about parents, friends etc.. that's the easy stuff ... if they love you then they'll just want to see you happy. BUT start to open your mind a bit. You sound like a lovely person. There is absolutely nothing wrong with who or how you are. You can have a wonderful, happy future that you'll be proud of or you can make yourself and others miserable living a lie.

lyinghere

Hey, pity your account is closed it may have been handy to have some contact with some of the lads on here wihout having to always post publicly. I know having communication with what was at the time of my coming out relative randomers encouraging me via boards was a help. Now I consider these randomers friends and we go for beers and communicate via facebook like I do with my straight friends. I no longer need a gaydar account to chat to gay lads in same situation and don't need to associate with the many sleazebags only after one thing on there. What I'm trying to say is that I also used to find the idea of being gay being very weird but little things like having normal communication with a fairly normal bunch of lads in the same situation was and is a major help.

You say you are looking for a straight acting kind of gay bar, have you considered going along to the next meet organised on here, you will meet gay lads in a straight environment which may make it seem less intimidating, if you feel comfortable join them heading to gay bar after. The time you went with your mates you were not able to maybe wander around and see what other sort of people were about you were right down in the thick of it by the sounds of things!

Some of the people I have came out to made the exact same derogatory remarks that you say you hear constantly and they definitely did not care once I told them, things won't change that much so consider at least talking to one of them. One of the lads I recently told had not so long ago made some very derogatory remarks but once he knew he was very supportive, he just didn't realise he we was making fun of his mate, I've helped change his attitute to gay people. As I'm not completely out and supposedly very straight acting I still hear the derogatory remarks, it used to ruin my day but now that I've sort of come to terms with everything I dont really care too much.

It's a tricky situation with your brother but it can't be changed. I know you don't get on great but is there any way you can try talk about this with him, it would lighten the load on your mind, just a suggestion.

I think you have got loads of good advise already but I just wanted to add my support , in its simplest terms for my situation which I feel is quiet similar to yours only that I dwelled on it for an extra 3 years , I had to ask myself can I see this predicament changing in time and realised its not going to change so I may as well get on with it, its much easier said than done I understand but I hope you consider tackling this one anyhow. you mentioned you thought you were going to do it after Christmas only for your brother - I reckon you can get back to that with support . Then you can get on with life as normal. I also hope you can maybe get back on here with a new account or something to let us know how your getting on.