F1 Tyre situation

GarIT

The tyre situation in F1 is getting a bit ridiculous now, I think they should just drop tyre suppliers and regulations and let the teams bring their own tyres, opinions?

Firewalkwithme

GarIT wrote: »

The tyre situation in F1 is getting a bit ridiculous now, I think they should just drop tyre suppliers and regulations and let the teams bring their own tyres, opinions?

Where are they supposed to get the tires from before this Friday, Fast Fit???

liam7831

I know a fella that has pre owned german imports if that is anygood?

Cookie_Monster

TBH a few tyres blowing out while everyone races full bore is a lot less ridiculous than them tootling around 3-4+ seconds off the pace to save them.

GarIT

They would obviously have to keep the current tyre for a bit, before they can change anything. I think the current situation is just creating a false race.

Firewalkwithme

GarIT wrote: »

They would obviously have to keep the current tyre for a bit, before they can change anything. I think the current situation is just creating a false race.

While I agree that the current situation is a farce, there are many things to consider. Firstly the teams would all have to agree to a change and we all know how difficult it is to find consensus in F1.

Also, Pirelli have yet to decide if they even want to continue as a supplier beyond the end of the season and that needs to be cleared up soon because another supplier would need to be found and nobody appears to be very keen right now. And that's only considering a scenario where there is one supplier whereas you seem to be suggesting that there would be multiple suppliers.

Add to that the fact that the teams needs to know very soon what next years tyre regs would be in order to design their cars appropriately. It's not just about grip and tyre wear either, the profile of the tyre is part of the aero design too.

Frank Bullitt

The problem I think was the brief given to Pirelli on what they were asked to make, tyres that degrade, but now it has gone too far.

You do get the impression that Pirelli have really made a balls of this, and they could very well pay the price for it. Team have already talked to Michelin this year about coming back to the sport, but at this stage it looks too late.

It's a complex situation, but it should never have gotten this bad, Alonso was very close to getting his head taken off on Sunday, if that had happened then Pirelli would for sure be shown the door.

GarIT

As a temporary solution I think they should go back to last years tyres, they worked. In the long term I think the teams should be asked to bring their own tyres, the tyres the teams being should be a certain size and the rest is up to them.

Firewalkwithme

GarIT wrote: »

As a temporary solution I think they should go back to last years tyres, they worked. In the long term I think the teams should be asked to bring their own tyres, the tyres the teams being should be a certain size and the rest is up to them.

Have last years tyres been tested on a 2013 car? I don't know and it I don't think so. Even those would need testing because this years cars are faster and doing something rash like changing back to them might only make a very bad problem even worse.

The idea of asking the teams to bring their own tyres is impractical and prohibitively expensive.

Anyway it looks like they are going to settle on perhaps allowing Pirelli to make the earlier changes that Lotus, Ferrari and Force India previously objected to and also allow for some more testing.

RayM

Gintonious wrote: »

The problem I think was the brief given to Pirelli on what they were asked to make, tyres that degrade, but now it has gone too far.

That was a massive mistake. F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport; the tyre manufacturers should be told to strive towards building the grippiest, yet most durable tyres possible. Ideally, there should be at least two tyre companies competing against each other, constantly trying to achieve the perfect compromise between speed and durability.

Agent Smith

LIGHTNING wrote: »

:pac:

The Tyres are fine....


this is what really happened

deecaz

They are going to let the drivers test in the young driver's test but only if they are testing tyres to try and get a handle on the tyre issue. They may extend the test by a day.

As time goes on the blame seems to be falling firmly at Ferrari's, Force India's and Lotus' door step, for blocking tyre changes earlier in the season. But the thing that seems to have added to the dangerous element is the way Pirelli changed the bonding of the tyres in Silverstone so we didn't have the delaminations of earlier in the season, where the metal belt stayed attached to the tyre. Instead the metal belt coated in rubber went flying off.

deecaz

deecaz wrote: »

As time goes on the blame seems to be falling firmly at Ferrari's, Force India's and Lotus' door step, for blocking tyre changes earlier in the season.

You can't put the blame on them, teams are necessarily ruthless and selfish. If they think they are using the tyres better than their rivals then of course they don't want any construction change.

The problem is lack of testing. If you are going to have very limited testing then asking Pirelli to design tyres that degrade was a recipe for disaster.

death1234567

RayM wrote: »

Ideally, there should be at least two tyre companies competing against each other, constantly trying to achieve the perfect compromise between speed and durability.

When Michelen and Bridgestone were both in Formula 1 Michelen left because the FIA didn't want two tyre companies competing as it lead to too big an increase in the performance of the cars.

GarIT

death1234567 wrote: »

When Michelen and Bridgestone were both in Formula 1 Michelen left because the FIA didn't want two tyre companies competing as it lead to too big an increase in the performance of the cars.

Why did they not want an increase in performance, should this not be what they are going for? By now they shouldn't need to change tyres during a race.

Mitch Connor

GarIT wrote: »

Why did they not want an increase in performance, should this not be what they are going for? By now they shouldn't need to change tyres during a race.

IMO you need some limiting factors in the sport.

The RedBulls moan that the tyres are holding their car back - I would counter that they have designed their car incorrectly if that is the case.

I think at times the tyres have degraded too much - but some of the moaning has been too much as well. The times at Monaco were poor - but everyone was going for a 1 stopper. Change the tyres and go faster, the choice was there.

I think a compromise between extremes need to be found. Tyres should go off, there should be tactics to their application, there should be engineering skill applied to getting the most out of them, there should be driver skill applied to getting the most out of them. There should also not be a need for 4 stops for the majority in a standard race.

death1234567

GarIT wrote: »

Why did they not want an increase in performance, should this not be what they are going for? By now they shouldn't need to change tyres during a race.

I think they thought it was too dangerous, IIRC there was a 7 second a lap increase in performance or something like that. And the michelen tyres were miles better than the bridgestone tyres that Ferrari were using (Bernie likes Ferrari).

Jesus if they didn't change tyres during the race it would be the definition of watching paint dry. F1 is already boring enough as it is.

GarIT

death1234567 wrote: »

I think they thought it was too dangerous, IIRC there was a 7 second a lap increase in performance or something like that. And the michelen tyres were miles better than the bridgestone tyres that Ferrari were using (Bernie likes Ferrari).

Jesus if they didn't change tyres during the race it would be the definition of watching paint dry. F1 is already boring enough as it is.

The solution to that would be to let them refuel and/or change tyres if they want to.

steve_r

Now with added Kevlar: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23141389

paddy147

Pirrelli are now saying that some teams purposely underinflated the tyres and this caused the problems.

Pirelli say that their tyres are safe and theres nothing wrong with them.




Cant wait to see the look on Pirelli's face.....if they get more failures at the German Grand Prix this weekend.

Cookie_Monster

paddy147 wrote: »

Pirrelli are now saying that some teams purposely underinflated the tyres and this caused the problems.

I think there's some validity in that, all the teams jacked up the pressure in response once it started.

mickdw

Pirelli also blaming the teams for running the tyres on the wrong side of the car. I had heard about this a few weeks back. It seems that some teams were getting benefit from using them on opposite sides - running the tyre in the wrong direction. I can't believe a few people didn't come up with that theory immediately when the failures happened.
If it can be seen that all failures occurred on incorrectly fitted tyres, then Pirelli are 100% in the clear imo.

steve_r

I think people have been looking for an excuse to attack Pirelli directly and this is it.

It would be worthwhile to know how much the teams are to blame though, if the aobve turns out to be true.

It was reported several races ago that some teams were running their rear tyres backwards, I thik one team had been doing it for ages and somehow nobody really noticed (which is amazing in F1 given all the attention paid to new parts etc).

And there was an argument in 2011 about teams running camber outside Pirelli recommendations. It would not surprise me if teams were running with low pressures outside the Pirelli spec also.

steve_r

LIGHTNING wrote: »

If they have been running the tyres outside the recommended specs they have nobody to blame but themselves.

And to taht extent I'd have sympathy for Pirelli, who are taking all the flak. I would like to see the tyre situation resolved, it's gone from Bridgestone (no uncertainty) to Pirelli with too much uncertainty.