So what are our councillors worried about today.

kilburn

One of the highest vacant unit % in the city, one of the countrys unemployment blackspots, one of the highest commercial rates in the country and what are our councillors worried about today.....

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/politics/limerick-councillor-wants-monarch-s-names-stripped-from-quayside-1-5230978

I really dont know how some of these people get votes

Chucken

For gods sake! Has he anything better to be worrying about? What about all the other English named places around the city? Will he start on them too?

Insect Overlord

Was that the same councillor who made a fool of himself arguing with dancers last year?

goulders

unlike lots of other councillors, lots of them are busy attending there summer schools or conferences on housing in Beijing.

washman3

Also the same councillor that rubbished rumours a few years ago that Dell was about to lose thousands of jobs, telling people that they should not believe what they read in 'tabloid rags'
The newspaper in question was The Wall Street Journal...:)
incidentally the decision had already been made in Texas when he said this.
Might be the fine weather that brings him out....;)

Kess73

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Was that the same councillor who made a fool of himself arguing with dancers last year?

The very same.

Just another example of the calibre of person that gets a say in how the city is run and at how the city is developed.

padma

Ah sure, what harm to change the names. Having two names of our quays named after monarchy's from a foreign country is ridiculous in this day and age. We are no longer a colonial outpost and we would be better suited to wiping that shameful part of our history out.

Onwards and upwards, name suggestions would be a good way to forward this thread. So in the spirit of change I suggest one of the quays be named after Richard Harris, Harris quay, sounds pretty cool.

seachto7

Jes*s, what's the bloody obsession with Richard bloody Harris!!!???

While we're at it, if we're renaming quays, back alleys or flipping public jacks, we should knock every building and town in Ireland that was constructed during the "British Empire"......

Does anyone actually care it's called George's quay?

It's hypocrisy. Go the extra mile and rename all townlands and counties to their proper titles as Gaeilge...

Complete bullsh*t....

padma

Theres no obsession with the guy, likewise theres no obsession with king george or his lady charlotte just a name change, why not. name these townlands and spots after someone more interesting than some guy from the 17th century who couldn't give a fiddlers about Ireland and it's people. He squashed the Irish rebellion, Introduced a few extra Penal laws. Lets face it the man was a tyrant and we have a quay named after him.

A2LUE42

padma wrote: »

Ah sure, what harm to change the names. Having two names of our quays named after monarchy's from a foreign country is ridiculous in this day and age. We are no longer a colonial outpost and we would be better suited to wiping that shameful part of our history out.

Onwards and upwards, name suggestions would be a good way to forward this thread. So in the spirit of change I suggest one of the quays be named after Richard Harris, Harris quay, sounds pretty cool.

I can see the signage now..

Harris Quay. NO DANCING ALLOWED.

Kess73

padma wrote: »

Ah sure, what harm to change the names. Having two names of our quays named after monarchy's from a foreign country is ridiculous in this day and age. We are no longer a colonial outpost and we would be better suited to wiping that shameful part of our history out.

Onwards and upwards, name suggestions would be a good way to forward this thread. So in the spirit of change I suggest one of the quays be named after Richard Harris, Harris quay, sounds pretty cool.

Guess you want to see all the Georgian architecture in Limerick knocked and done away with as well. After all that harks back to the "shameful" part of Irish history.


John's Cathedral, Mary's Cathedral, Munchin's Church and the like should be knocked then going by your logic. All english built.

All the Victorian and Edwardian architecture on the Shelbourne road and O'Connell avenue should be flattened as well yes? Nasty English stuff that.


And what about the bridges? Sarsfield bridge is named after Patrick Sarsfield. He was a Jacobite who swore allegiance to England. Sarsfield barracks is named after him as well.

Whilst we are at it, maybe Thomond park should be done away with and rugby outlawed. Best not to be glorifying an english sport.:P


The idea of wiping out history is a shameful one in my eyes. It is that very history that made and shaped Limerick for you. It is that same history that gives Limerick any character she has. It is that same history that should make people thankful for the age they live in, and it is by acknowledging history that past mistakes should not be repeated.

peckerhead

+1 to all the above.

Enough goddam siege mentality around this town as it is.

padma

Kess73 wrote: »

Guess you want to see all the Georgian architecture in Limerick knocked and done away with as well. After all that harks back to the "shameful" part of Irish history.


John's Cathedral, Mary's Cathedral, Munchin's Church and the like should be knocked then going by your logic. All english built.

All the Victorian and Edwardian architecture on the Shelbourne road and O'Connell avenue should be flattened as well yes? Nasty English stuff that.


And what about the bridges? Sarsfield bridge is named after Patrick Sarsfield. He was a Jacobite who swore allegiance to England. Sarsfield barracks is named after him as well.

Whilst we are at it, maybe Thomond park should be done away with and rugby outlawed. Best not to be glorifying an english sport.:P


The idea of wiping out history is a shameful one in my eyes. It is that very history that made and shaped Limerick for you. It is that same history that gives Limerick any character she has. It is that same history that should make people thankful for the age they live in, and it is by acknowledging history that past mistakes should not be repeated.

No need to be ridiculous Kess, Though what did King George do for Ireland apart from enslave it's people and introduce insane laws to oppress a people who begged for their daily survival. So, we will keep the buidings that were built here, but as for naming those quays after the guy, come on, the man was a tyrant.

He oversaw the growth of the British empire, which included slavery, the mass use of slaves from Africa shackled off to the US and the carribean. Why should we honour the guy by having his name on our walls? Give me one good reason Kess?

seachto7

If Gilligan is so worried about "de Brits", he should be promoting the active use of the Irish language around Limerick. That would serve more of a purpose than renaming some landmark....

jmch81

Kess73 wrote: »

John's Cathedral, Mary's Cathedral, Munchin's Church and the like should be knocked then going by your logic. All english built.

St Mary's is Irish built:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mary's_Cathedral,_Limerick

europa11

seachto7 wrote: »

If Gilligan is so worried about "de Brits", he should be promoting the active use of the Irish language around Limerick. That would serve more of a purpose than renaming some landmark....

Better still if he made his future pronouncements entirely "as Gaelige", then we could ignore him completely.

Come to think of it, why is he speaking in the language of the 'hated invader' in the first place?

Another oaf feeding from the trough while city businesses are set upon and hounded by rates collectors to pay for the likes of this idiocy.

edit:

Just an afterthought....If he succeeds in renaming those offensive "English" quays, will he then call for a change to the name of King's Island to this?


:rolleyes:

juneg

padma wrote: »

Ah sure, what harm to change the names. Having two names of our quays named after monarchy's from a foreign country is ridiculous in this day and age. We are no longer a colonial outpost and we would be better suited to wiping that shameful part of our history out.

Onwards and upwards, name suggestions would be a good way to forward this thread. So in the spirit of change I suggest one of the quays be named after Richard Harris, Harris quay, sounds pretty cool.

And then once we got rid of the monarchy, our very own fabulous governments took over and did such a wonderful and terrific job year after year that today we are the ( broke ) laughing stock of Europe with nothing to show for our Independence from said monarchy.

seachto7

I wonder does Gilligan have Sky Sports?

europa11

I see Councillors Maurice Quinlivan and Cormac Hurley (...who in their right mind voted for...oh! why bother..!) are now trying to outdo Gilligan for crass stupidity, or might that be more accurately put as vote-grabbing exercise with the permanently irate local residents who decided to build and live in houses next to a stadium.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/local-business/concern-over-pub-plans-in-limerick-for-gaa-final-1-5241781

The first time in donkeys' years that Limerick gets to stage a Munster Final and this is what we get from our esteemed Councillors.

Silly season indeed

padma

europa11 wrote: »

I see Councillors Maurice Quinlivan and Cormac Hurley (...who in their right mind voted for...oh! why bother..!) are now trying to outdo Gilligan for crass stupidity, or might that be more accurately put as vote-grabbing exercise with the permanently irate local residents who decided to build and live in houses next to a stadium.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/local-business/concern-over-pub-plans-in-limerick-for-gaa-final-1-5241781

The first time in donkeys' years that Limerick gets to stage a Munster Final and this is what we get from our esteemed Councillors.

Silly season indeed

I agree with Maurice. That's an incredibly stupid place to put a tent. There is a lot of elderly people living there on park view drive. Would you like it if hundreds of people arrived outside your house drinking all day and night. No thanks.

They have the wood field house and the ardhu bar for drinks. Not a tent outside someone's house.

roast

What



the f*ck.

Does Gilligan really believe this is something the people of Limerick give a sh*t about?
Or is he just chancing his luck with this crud again just because his ingenious notion was shot down 20 years ago? Bitter perhaps?

bigpink

Councillors objecting to a bar marquee for the Munster Final,won't help any future plans for a concert

Kess73

padma wrote: »

No need to be ridiculous Kess, Though what did King George do for Ireland apart from enslave it's people and introduce insane laws to oppress a people who begged for their daily survival. So, we will keep the buidings that were built here, but as for naming those quays after the guy, come on, the man was a tyrant.

He oversaw the growth of the British empire, which included slavery, the mass use of slaves from Africa shackled off to the US and the carribean. Why should we honour the guy by having his name on our walls? Give me one good reason Kess?

You do realise that Ireland was given to England by the Vatican right? Funny how that bit usually gets left out of any 800 years of oppression type speeches.

If having his name on a quay is such a problem, funny how it seems to have gone unnoticed by councillors for decades, and funny how all the insulted folk have not kicked up a massive stink over it either.

The reason why is most likely that most people who passed that quay did not have a clue about the history of the city they live in or are from. It only becomes a big deal when someone brings up the whole 800 years rubbish.

You want a good reason why the name should stay. Well if the name staying where it is gets even one kid to look into the history of his city and then of his country in some detail, then that name has done something good. If that name being on the quay gets some feelings of local pride bubbling to the fore then that is good. If that name educates even one person to Limerick's very varied historical past then it is a great thing.

Or we could have some bland name put on the quay instead. Maybe some no mark councillor's name. Some joker who has had no major impact on the history of the city, be it positive or negative.


A lot of what George did to Ireland whilst he was alive was horrific, but those acts were of their time, and those acts helped shaped the path the city took.

Limerick has a historical past that takes in many heroes and villains. None should be forgotten.

But if widespread suffering and slaughter is a reason to try and wipe something from the records, should we not be trying to rid ourselves of any mention of guys like Brian Boru? That lad was behind some savage culls of fellow Irish folk, and those that he saw as being against him were persecuted to extremes.

Might as well go back and wipe out the viking history of Limerick as well, because those guys when they first arrived were not handing out bunches of flowers either.

Kess73

jmch81 wrote: »

St Mary's is Irish built:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mary's_Cathedral,_Limerick

So it is. I could have sworn it was originally English built. Am wrong about that one then.

Turns out it was the tower part that was english funded as well as the english funding of the repair/rebuild of the cathedral in the late 1600's.


But I could add the Sacred Heart Church, the Franciscan Church, and Johns church to my list of prominent Limerick buildings that were paid for by the English.


I just think that Limerick's varied history, warts and all, should be embraced rather than it becoming some sort of dumbed down pick and mix take on the past where only certain facts get remembered/noted.

kilburn

Out of curiousity what do you mean by Ireland was giving to England by the Vatican or have i missed something earlier

padma

I understand your loyalty to Britain, tis all well and good. I'm half british myself, but as you said yourself the mans activities in Ireland were horrific, they were also horrific all over the world, isn't it about time that we removed ourselves from the colonial past and modernised our city instead of these old areas named after long dead monarchs of Britain. In this George the thirds case I'd happily see another name there. It wouldn't be nice to see Adolf Hitler street in downtown warsaw would it, so why have a tyrant like the mad king George here.

Insect Overlord

Most of our own aren't worth naming streets after either.

europa11

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Most of our own aren't worth naming streets after either.

Dillie O'wee Boulevard..........Jim-Il-Long Place...........Leddin Dynasty Park............Maria Byrne Road:eek::D


Yeah IO, you're right about that.

Kess73

padma wrote: »

I understand your loyalty to Britain, tis all well and good. I'm half british myself, but as you said yourself the mans activities in Ireland were horrific, they were also horrific all over the world, isn't it about time that we removed ourselves from the colonial past and modernised our city instead of these old areas named after long dead monarchs of Britain. In this George the thirds case I'd happily see another name there. It wouldn't be nice to see Adolf Hitler street in downtown warsaw would it, so why have a tyrant like the mad king George here.

You understand my loyalty to Britain? What loyalty is this exactly, and what has your "understanding" of something that does not exist got to do with my opinion on this topic?


My accent may be a scouse-German hybrid, but my place of birth was right here in Limerick. Yes I am a british citizen, but I am an Irish citizen through birth. I am also a naturalised german citizen, does that mean my loyalties to Bundesrepublik Deutschland counter my British loyalties? And what of my Irish loyalties, where do they come into play? Who knows how my time living and working in Japan effects all of this.

My opinion of history is based on fact, not some outdated jingoistic notion regarding loyalty towards some a sovereign state made up of four seperate countries. My life to this point has seen me live in too many different countries, and immerse myself in too many cultures for me to regard myself as anything other than a mongrel of many nations rather than a die hard loyalist to one flag or ideal.

And bringing Adolf into it? Poor thread did not make it beyond two pages before Godwin's law kicked in.

As for George, I would wager that the vast majority of folk in Limerick did not have a clue who the quay was named after, and even less would have known the historical background to that name. My point is that if the name on that quay or any of the other current names on streets or quays in and around Limerick cause some kids or adults to pick up a boook or go to a search engine and learn something new, then it is only a good thing. If it fosters some local pride within a person and that person then goes on to try and improve something in their locality, then even better.

There are plenty of place names and building names that have links to the catholic church. Should all of those be renamed given what that church did in Ireland?

My own take is that the talk of renaming quays is nothing more than a self serving attempt at publicity. One that is being timed as the current terms of councillors are winding down and we move towards the next set of local election in 2014. I would suggest that we can expect to see plenty of frankly idiotic suggestions/proposals from various councillors in the next six to nine months as they all scramble for a share of the attention that over the top suggestions brings. Just a shame that they cannot put as much effort into trying to solve the long list of problems that Limerick has, many of those problems sitting smack in the middle of the areas the same councillors got their votes.

padma

Are you alright their Kess? You flamed me as some nationalist in earlier posts you made, I merely pointed out the fact that you don't see any reason why we should change the name of the quays. I on the other hand have given some very good reasons why i feel we should change the name of the quays. One being that King George the third was a tyrant.

Agreed by you, so on that note alone wouldn't it be grand to have a name change. What historical benefit would there be to us to have his name continued in the city is beyond me. Should we have his name honored simply because it's a part of our history as you suggest? Because in fairness thats what naming a quay after someone is really about, an honor.

As for Adolf Hitler, he was also a tyrant, but his name is not marked anywhere, whereas we have someone who could be classed as worse than Hitler who has his name honored on our quays. This is not good and we as a nation do deserve to have such tyrants remembered, but not honored by having quays named after them.

This is a debate and I can see the vast majority of folk here couldn't care less about the name and it is only to ridicule the councilor in question about his suggestion rather than debate the merits of that councilors suggestion.

On the post above where the person said plonker it was directed as me as he has quoted my post, giving the impression he thought I was a plonker for posting what I did.

Kess73

padma wrote: »

Are you alright their Kess? You flamed me as some nationalist in earlier posts you made, I merely pointed out the fact that you don't see any reason why we should change the name of the quays. I on the other hand have given some very good reasons why i feel we should change the name of the quays. One being that King George the third was a tyrant.

Agreed by you, so on that note alone wouldn't it be grand to have a name change. What historical benefit would there be to us to have his name continued in the city is beyond me. Should we have his name honored simply because it's a part of our history as you suggest? Because in fairness thats what naming a quay after someone is really about, an honor.

As for Adolf Hitler, he was also a tyrant, but his name is not marked anywhere, whereas we have someone who could be classed as worse than Hitler who has his name honored on our quays. This is not good and we as a nation do deserve to have such tyrants remembered, but not honored by having quays named after them.

This is a debate and I can see the vast majority of folk here couldn't care less about the name and it is only to ridicule the councilor in question about his suggestion rather than debate the merits of that councilors suggestion.

On the post above where the person said plonker it was directed as me as he has quoted my post, giving the impression he thought I was a plonker for posting what I did.

I called you a nationalist in earlier posts? That is nothing more than a lie, and you had better point out the posts where I called you a nationalist pretty quick.

Also you did not simply point out the "fact" why I cannot see a reason why the quay names should be changed, you posted that it was understandable why I would be loyal to Britain despite the fact I was born here in Limerick.



So what you can do now is show me the posts in which I was flaming, as flaming is against the rules on Boards and making up that someone is flaming is also against the rules.

You can also point out exactly where I called you a nationalist a number of times, and be sure to show each time as you said it was in posts rather than in a post.

padma

Kess73 wrote: »

Guess you want to see all the Georgian architecture in Limerick knocked and done away with as well. After all that harks back to the "shameful" part of Irish history.


John's Cathedral, Mary's Cathedral, Munchin's Church and the like should be knocked then going by your logic. All english built.

All the Victorian and Edwardian architecture on the Shelbourne road and O'Connell avenue should be flattened as well yes? Nasty English stuff that.


And what about the bridges? Sarsfield bridge is named after Patrick Sarsfield. He was a Jacobite who swore allegiance to England. Sarsfield barracks is named after him as well.

Whilst we are at it, maybe Thomond park should be done away with and rugby outlawed. Best not to be glorifying an english sport.:P


The idea of wiping out history is a shameful one in my eyes. It is that very history that made and shaped Limerick for you. It is that same history that gives Limerick any character she has. It is that same history that should make people thankful for the age they live in, and it is by acknowledging history that past mistakes should not be repeated.

Kess73 wrote: »

You do realise that Ireland was given to England by the Vatican right? Funny how that bit usually gets left out of any 800 years of oppression type speeches.

If having his name on a quay is such a problem, funny how it seems to have gone unnoticed by councillors for decades, and funny how all the insulted folk have not kicked up a massive stink over it either.

The reason why is most likely that most people who passed that quay did not have a clue about the history of the city they live in or are from. It only becomes a big deal when someone brings up the whole 800 years rubbish.



A lot of what George did to Ireland whilst he was alive was horrific, but those acts were of their time, and those acts helped shaped the path the city took.

All of the highlighted parts are implying that I am a nationalist harking on about 800 years of oppression. Saying and implying that I would like to wipe out anything English built buildings, hell even get rid of Rugby because it's an english sport. So there you go, Earlier posts of yours kess making me out to be some nutcase because I agree with councillor gilligans suggestion.

Kess73

kilburn wrote: »

Out of curiousity what do you mean by Ireland was giving to England by the Vatican or have i missed something earlier

Sorry, missed this post when you asked the question.


The first major invasion of Ireland came at the request of the then King of Leinster (an Irish man called Diarmaid mac Murchadha) as he was squabbling with the high king of Ireland and asked for English help.

King Henry II needed Vatican approval to do such a thing, and Pope Adrian changed some papal law to ensure the invasion happened.

Then some years later the next pope, Alexander, went even further by issuing a papal decree to Henry II to make the Irish church pay a tax to the vatican, and he gave lordship of Ireland to Henry as payment for this.

The money people put in the basket during a regular mass nowadays is the continuation of that levy as it was never got rid of by the catholic church in Ireland even after Ireland became an independent country.

I never knew about it myself until I was listening to the radio a few weeks back and there was an author/historian being interviewed who was bringing out a book regarding the English conquest of Ireland and the facts that often get left out by mainstream hiostory education in schools across Ireland and Britain.

Kess73

padma wrote: »

All of the highlighted parts are implying that I am a nationalist harking on about 800 years of oppression. Saying and implying that I would like to wipe out anything English built buildings, hell even get rid of Rugby because it's an english sport. So there you go, Earlier posts of yours kess making me out to be some nutcase because I agree with councillor gilligans suggestion.

Good man. Thanks for backing up that you lied when you said I called you a nationalist, and thanks for lying about me flaming. I also did not say you were a nutcase, nor did I hint at it.


Also you neglected to mention that other posters replied to you mentioning that all the buildings built by the Britiush empire should be knocked, and made passing remark to a siege mentality. So if I was implying (seeing as you have changes it from me calling you something to me now implying it instead) what you said, then all those posters must have being doing likewise.

The conversation between you and I is over. I am going to ask for your accusations to be looked into because there was no mention of any nationalist insults by you until I responded to your little british loyalty post.

padma

Kess73 wrote: »

Good man. Thanks for backing up that you lied when you said I called you a nationalist, and thanks for lying about me flaming. I also did not say you were a nutcase, nor did I hint at it.


Also you neglected to mention that other posters replied to you mentioning that all the buildings built by the Britiush empire should be knocked, and made passing remark to a siege mentality. So if I was implying (seeing as you have changes it from me calling you something to me now implying it instead) what you said, then all those posters must have being doing likewise.

The conversation between you and I is over. I am going to ask for your accusations to be looked into because there was no mention of any nationalist insults by you until I responded to your little british loyalty post.

You need to read my post, I never said you DIRECTLY called me a nationalist, point that out Kess to me please. I said that you flamed me as being SOME kind of a nationalist. This was due to all the highlighted points of earlier posts. This in turn implies that anyone who agrees with Councillor Gilligan is some form of a nutcase who wants to knock everything english built in the city. Of course it implies Im a nutcase as you make it out in such a way.

Why don't you just say, Sorry Padma, I got in to the heat of the moment and decided to have a rant at you

dcmm

europa11 wrote: »

I see Councillors Maurice Quinlivan and Cormac Hurley (...who in their right mind voted for...oh! why bother..!) are now trying to outdo Gilligan for crass stupidity, or might that be more accurately put as vote-grabbing exercise with the permanently irate local residents who decided to build and live in houses next to a stadium.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/local-business/concern-over-pub-plans-in-limerick-for-gaa-final-1-5241781

The first time in donkeys' years that Limerick gets to stage a Munster Final and this is what we get from our esteemed Councillors.

Silly season indeed

My son lives in Clareview, believe me if you lived there you would see and hear the knock-on effects of excessive drinking and mindless "sober parking", before the match. Good luck to the teams and their supporters,hope they have a great day,but please go to town or home to your own pubs to celebrate.UP LIMERICK:)

Ash.J.Williams

seachto7 wrote: »

If Gilligan is so worried about "de Brits", he should be promoting the active use of the Irish language around Limerick. That would serve more of a purpose than renaming some landmark....

that's actually a great idea

Clareman

Godwin's Law has been met in this thread I see, also, I don't see the point in having a thread about the history of Ireland in the Limerick forum so I'm locking this thread.

There'll need to be a full review of this thread so I have hidden some posts, don't worry, nothing has been deleted.

The Hill Billy

I've reviewed the thread as requested by Clareman & can find no evidence that Kess has flamed padma as "some nationalist" as alleged.

@padma - In my opinion you have read too much into some posts & taken things personally when there was no need to.
I suggest that you desist from making such allegations in future & report posts that you have issue with.

If you all wish to have a civil debate on the naming of Limerick's highways, byways & other places of note - start a new thread & don't let it get bogged down in to a historical debate.

tHB