Beaten by the crankshaft bolt

Kencollins

Hi all,

I conceded defeat to a stubborn crank bolt yesterday...

95 Honda Civic, crank bolt torqued to 185NM (supposedly). Due to this model not having the crank lock shape inside the crank pully it is nearly impossible to lock the crank.

Used my trusty electric impact wrench which has been tested on bolts that have more than 200NM on them....no dice.

Ran the impact gun for 10 mins with no luck. Then it was time for mister blowtorch for 10 mins. No dice. WD40. No dice. PB bolt spray. No dice. 1m breaker bar. No dice. Broken extension though!

I had to give up after 90 mins at this stupid bolt.

Does anyone think that a tyre shop gun would be more powerful than my clarke impact gun? I was going to ask the guys there to blast the bolt with whatever they have and hopefully get that stupid silly bolt out.

gctest50

The 1inch guns should go to 3000Nm - should get it out or break it

Kencollins

I hope it doesn't break, the thread on it is really fine and i'm not sure I could drill it out!

It really is a stupid design having such a tight bolt with no way to lock the crank pulley. The engine also rotates counter-clockwise so blipping the starter motor isn't even an option on these cars

Tea drinker

No idea how you will get it out other than BF+I , but it would be a good idea to order one up if you haven't already ;-)

Kencollins

It's not my car, I was just going to do the well over due timing belt and water pump.

I would be surprised if it breaks or shears, it is M14 so hopefully it can withstand the abuse it is going to get!

shamwari

Do these thing have a left hand threaded bolt, particularly if the pulley is on the passenger side...?

congo_90

im surprised there's no way to lock it. does it have reverse thread? eg like a fan pulley?

Kencollins

No, the thread is normal, anti-clockwise to loosen. I checked the service manual and it shows the engine rotation as anti-clockwise, and warns that the crank bolt may loosen while turning the engine by hand.

I can't think of a way to lock it...maybe a big ass screwdriver in the fly wheel. I tried putting the car in 5th and using the breaker, but the pulley still rotates after about 150NM torque.

cruizer101

Maybe I'm missing something but could you put a brick on the brake pedal while its in gear.

And yeah I would have thought there be some way of locking it alright with a hole in the pulley that you can stick a screwdriver in.

Kencollins

I had someone on the breaks too, made no difference to the pulley moving

There are 4 holes in the pulley, but they don't line up with anything on the housing.

Chimaera

Just out of curiosity, is definitely a bolt and not a nut? If it's a nut then maybe one of these fellows might do the job for you:


Alternatively, blowtorch should do it eventually, though you may have to go through a few heating/cooling cycles to break the bond.

congo_90

anything on google or even a honda forum?
Call a dealer and ask the service dept. for some advice?

Gary ITR

A decent impact gun should release it. Just be aware if you use heat you'll need to change the front crank oil seal

Renegade Mechanic

Ford and Honda Cranks are the worst... A bigger gun is the only way unfortunately. At the very least, 850/900nm will be required. And a six sided air socket, as short as possible.
God speed....

Kencollins

Thanks!

My friendly local Tyre Stop mechanic said he will air impact it tomorrow. He seemed pretty confident that their compressor is big enough to handle it. The do tractor tyres and all the big stuff so I imagine they can handle it!

I asked him to torque it back to 100NM for the drive across town back to my place. I presume this is enough to prevent it coming off for the 2km trip, and 100NM is well within the range of my impact gun.

Now.....tomorrow's weather....not something that brute force will sort out!

Stella Virgo

http://www.google.ie/webhp?source=search_app#output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=removing+crankshaft+pulley+bolt&oq=removing+crankshaft+&gs_l=hp.1.1.0l4.1769.12568.0.16790.20.13.0.7.7.0.332.2490.2j3j7j1.13.0...0.0.0..1c.1.17.psy-ab.ObcFUhmBOLc&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48572450,d.ZGU&fp=5971deed4ee41e2d&biw=1120&bih=623
some of these might work
disclaimer, if u kill yerself,the wife.or dog,tryin these out....DONT BLAME ME:D

Renegade Mechanic

Stella Virgo wrote: »

http://www.google.ie/webhp?source=search_app#output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=removing+crankshaft+pulley+bolt&oq=removing+crankshaft+&gs_l=hp.1.1.0l4.1769.12568.0.16790.20.13.0.7.7.0.332.2490.2j3j7j1.13.0...0.0.0..1c.1.17.psy-ab.ObcFUhmBOLc&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48572450,d.ZGU&fp=5971deed4ee41e2d&biw=1120&bih=623
some of these might work
disclaimer, if u kill yerself,the wife.or dog,tryin these out....DONT BLAME ME:D

Actually the one with the chain is bloody clever!! Might improve on it and keep an old fanbelt on the,pulley to protect the grooves but THAT is going straight into the notebook! Disclaimer duly noted of course

A word of advice to the victim in all of this too. If its just a short drive from the tyre place to yours, I'd leave the fan belt off, have as little load as possible on that semi-tight pulley.

dgt

Rent one of each



That'll take it out without locking the crank

Kencollins

I've been beaten again!

The guys at the tyre shop used their biggest wrench with the biggest compressor. It is the one they use for truck tyres. The bolt is still well and truly stuck. They hit it with the gun for 4 or 5 minutes, with no luck.

As for the chain method, I might give it a try but I don't think I will be able to get enough torque on my breaker bar and an extension. I tried to jam the fly wheel from beneath with a hammer handle and it did hold the engine. I was standing and bouncing on the breaker bar (I'm 80KGs) and it held solid. I even used a jack and some wood to rest the breaker bar on to square off the angle.

I give up, the owner can bring it to a main dealers and let them worry about it!

canhefixit

dgt wrote: »

Rent one of each



That'll take it out without locking the crank

A mate had the engine out of a landcrusier and had to get the crank bolt off and he tried everything but it wouldnt move, he took the engine to a local bus company were they have a big impact like the one in the above pic and it loosened it straight away

Kencollins

The bolt is off! More on that later.

Quick question, after tensioning the belt, I can twist it about 150 degrees.

It feels tight enough, and isn't skipping teeth when hand cranked.

Is this normal for a Honda?

Pj!

How did ya get it off in the end?

Renegade Mechanic

Kencollins wrote: »

The bolt is off! More on that later.

Quick question, after tensioning the belt, I can twist it about 150 degrees.

It feels tight enough, and isn't skipping teeth when hand cranked.

Is this normal for a Honda?

Im sorry to say Im not sure..
But any engine that tightens up at any stage of rotation isnt right. Id look up timing marks for that engine. Theres bound to be good advice on the honda forums too.

scudster

Next time instead of putting it into 5th gear try 1st instead, that'll stop the engine from turning.
I always thought a fully tensioned timing belt should only twist about 90 degrees. 150 degrees sounds too much to me.

aidanki

was going to suggest a torque multipler

but prey tell how did you get it off

Kencollins

Hi all,

Thanks for all the input!

In the end I brought it to the local Polish mechanics. He is pretty big and muscles everywhere so i though he might be able to do it!

He put the car on the lift, and had a chain and vice contraption that he wrapped around the crank pulley. He held that in one hand, and got a two meter breaker bar on the bolt.

It took him 15 minutes of swearing in Polish and putting all his weight on the bar.

Eventually it just twisted off!

As for the tension, I set it according to the manual and can not tension it any more. It advises to turn the camshaft three teeth to get tension on the belt, then lock the tensioner with 45nm. I did this and it was too loose so I did it again but put some extra pressure on the tensioner with a bar. The belt feels tight enough so I am not too worried. I had to put a good bit of pressure to get it to turn 150 degrees

I rang the guy who owns the car earlier, and he had done a 90 mile trip with no noises or anything funny, so I can only assume the tension is right. It just FELT weird not having it tight tight, but it is obviously tight enough.

firefly08

scudster wrote: »

Next time instead of putting it into 5th gear try 1st instead, that'll stop the engine from turning.
I always thought a fully tensioned timing belt should only twist about 90 degrees. 150 degrees sounds too much to me.

I would have thought 5th gear would be better no?. 1st gear is easiest for the engine to turn, 5th is the hardest.

OP, just out of curiosity, did putting it in gear hold it solidly in place, or was there a bit of springy movement from the clutch as you tried to break it loose? That can make it much harder.

Renegade Mechanic

5th gear is best for turning the engine, 1st gear is besf for holding it. Cant speak for op, but ive often put it in 1st, blocks on wheels, friends foot on the brakes. The spring action of the clutch can sometimes be overcome if the bolt isn't too tight. But I was on a focus where the clutch actually slipped!

Kencollins

I didn't realise that 5th gear isn't the best gear for holding!

The civic had a very springy clutch alright. It was almost like that awful feeling before you shear a critical bolt and remove most of you knuckles on the subframe!