copper

td5man

Injection,bolus or dispenser in water trough?

mahoney_j

td5man wrote: »

Injection,bolus or dispenser in water trough?

Bolus for me,did all the calves with them yesterday and cows and bulling heifers in April.

moy83

Ours need to be done aswell , I know the injection would be handier on me because I havent a notion of getting a bolus into some of them .

I threw a handful of bluestone into the trough for a few bull weanlins , they wouldnt go within an asses roar of it for a drink . I had to clean it out and they were still scooby dubios about drinking from it . Do they like the taste from the stuff in the dispenser ?

blue5000

td5 is it just low copper or is it locked up due to high molybdenum? Chelated mineral lick might work, but for me it's bolus all the way.

Farmer Pudsey

moy83 wrote: »

Ours need to be done aswell , I know the injection would be handier on me because I havent a notion of getting a bolus into some of them .

I threw a handful of bluestone into the trough for a few bull weanlins , they wouldnt go within an asses roar of it for a drink . I had to clean it out and they were still scooby dubios about drinking from it . Do they like the taste from the stuff in the dispenser ?

If you want to feed bluestone mix it with molasses. About 1T-spoon to four cattle. dissolve in hot water and mix with molasses. They will come and go from the trough. once ever 10 days.

I imagine that the copper in dispenses is cleated and so there is less also if you threw bluestone in if was enough for a week to 10 days so they would notice the taste.

td5man

blue5000 wrote: »

td5 is it just low copper or is it locked up due to high molybdenum? Chelated mineral lick might work, but for me it's bolus all the way.

Low in copper,a few with brown hair on their backs

TEAT SQUEEZER

td5man wrote: »

Low in copper,a few with brown hair on their backs

my nutritionist maintains its the molybdenum that causes the brown hair and that panda eyes are the outward symptom of copper def. ...

anyway whether its non existant or locked up its the same effect really......
i inject dry stock and get extra chelated copper put in the dairy cubes .....

does anyone solve copper issues through using flomag and trace elements in the water..( i think this has chelated copper in it)

Dampintheattic

TEAT SQUEEZER wrote: »

my nutritionist maintains its the molybdenum that causes the brown hair and that panda eyes are the outward symptom of copper def. ...

anyway whether its non existant or locked up its the same effect really......
i inject dry stock and get extra chelated copper put in the dairy cubes .....

does anyone solve copper issues through using flomag and trace elements in the water..( i think this has chelated copper in it)

Could you explain what you mean by panda eyes?
New term for me in relation to cattle.

Thanks

TEAT SQUEEZER

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Could you explain what you mean by panda eyes?
New term for me in relation to cattle.

Thanks

in lay mans terms its (dis)coloured rings around eyes .... am high mol here so have the rusty hair here .. often think you can see defined rings around aa cattle especially......

Dampintheattic

TEAT SQUEEZER wrote: »

in lay mans terms its (dis)coloured rings around eyes .... am high mol here so have the rusty hair here .. often think you can see defined rings around aa cattle especially......

Ok, but isn't high molybdenum and low copper the same thing at the end of the day.
My understanding, is that high molybdenum levels in the soil, locks up the available copper. Plant (grass) unable to take up the copper, leading to deficiency in the cattle.
As it happens, I have four incalf springers, right now. All showing the brownish tinge to the hair. Must give them a copper shot.
None of the other animals (cows, calves, yearlings) showing signs of it. Maybe, young in calf stock, more likely to show it up, considering demands on their system, due to being in calf. Could that make sense?

Sami23

Just wondering when ye are injecting with copper do ye prefer to inject in the neck or in the back ?
Do ye find either better (more responsive) or does it make any difference ?

pakalasa

I always do them with the BVP Copper injection. Into the neck is best as the quality of meat there is poorer.
I did a young heifer down into the leg muscle this year and she swelled up big time. In a hurry to do them. She was acting up, so did her the easy way. Big mistake. Called the vet for her and it was only when he was looking at her, that I remembered injecting her with the copper. She had gone all scoury and sick in herself.
I've been injecting them for years the right way and never had a problem. If you look at the instructions, it shows how to pull the skin to one side when doing them. That way the hole in the skin moves away from the injection site and stops infection.

TEAT SQUEEZER

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Ok, but isn't high molybdenum and low copper the same thing at the end of the day.
My understanding, is that high molybdenum levels in the soil, locks up the available copper. Plant (grass) unable to take up the copper, leading to deficiency in the cattle.
As it happens, I have four incalf springers, right now. All showing the brownish tinge to the hair. Must give them a copper shot.
None of the other animals (cows, calves, yearlings) showing signs of it. Maybe, young in calf stock, more likely to show it up, considering demands on their system, due to being in calf. Could that make sense?

springers and youngest calves here are the worst here.....my point with the rusty coat is that a copper def is not always caused by high mol.. i think sulphur and iron inhibit absorbtion aswell........

pakalasa wrote: »

I always do them with the BVP Copper injection. Into the neck is best as the quality of meat there is poorer.
I did a young heifer down into the leg muscle this year and she swelled up big time. In a hurry to do them. She was acting up, so did her the easy way. Big mistake. Called the vet for her and it was only when he was looking at her, that I remembered injecting her with the copper. She had gone all scoury and sick in herself.
I've been injecting them for years the right way and never had a problem. If you look at the instructions, it shows how to pull the skin to one side when doing them. That way the hole in the skin moves away from the injection site and stops infection.

yeah always the neck doing the"trap door" method.... i use an inch needle to really bury it in there..can leave a nasty lump alright

Sami23

How many weeks do you need to leave before giving a repeat injection if there is no sign of improvement ?

moy83

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If you want to feed bluestone mix it with molasses. About 1T-spoon to four cattle. dissolve in hot water and mix with molasses. They will come and go from the trough. once ever 10 days.

I imagine that the copper in dispenses is cleated and so there is less also if you threw bluestone in if was enough for a week to 10 days so they would notice the taste.

One t-spoon is where I went wrong ! Two big fisfulls into the water trough for 6 weanlins is what dumbo here felt would be a good dose rate

Floody Boreland

Will try bluestone in the troughs but where is it sold?

moy83

Floody Boreland wrote: »

Will try bluestone in the troughs but where is it sold?

I presume most hardwares have it . I got it in Mc Donaghs in galway .

kowtow

We've had the same "panda eye" (in the calves) and retained reddish coats in FR Dams this year more or less since calving. For the last month or so we've had chelated copper & other mins etc. in the form of allsure (there is also a copper only version) in the troughs.

Small net bags, one tablet of each per animal per week - although they don't all dissolve in a week, might be a result of multiple troughs?

The coats do seem to be improving and going back to black - although I suppose it could also be a result of better condition generally with good grass available and better feeding... interestingly the youngest calves, which are mainly on milk - seem the slowest to recover. Maybe copper doesn't transmit from the Dam in the milk easily?

I didn't use injections or bolus because I read something somewhere about difficulty re-breeding if not done well before bulling. This could be complete rubbish or I may have misunderstood it so don't take my word for it.

Will certainly be putting copper in the troughs in the house over the winter - There's enough bloody ginger on this farm as it is.

mf240

would it not be a case of it needing to be done well in advance of breeding so as to get the benifit. more so than it being harmfull around breeding. Im not sure now but thats my take on it.

kowtow

mf240 wrote: »

would it not be a case of it needing to be done well in advance of breeding so as to get the benifit. more so than it being harmfull around breeding. Im not sure now but thats my take on it.

You could be right, because if the next round of estrumate doesn't work I'm going to have to start handing out DVD's of whatever is the bovine equivalent of "Debbie does Dallas"

mikeoh

Use. this too great value compared to those prefilled syringes

[/quote]

pakalasa

mf240 wrote: »

would it not be a case of it needing to be done well in advance of breeding so as to get the benifit. more so than it being harmfull around breeding. Im not sure now but thats my take on it.

I read somewhere that injecting early in pregnancy can cause embryonic death, can't remember where though - so not 100% certain. Anyway, I always try and get it done well before breeding them.

whelan1

kowtow wrote: »

We've had the same "panda eye" (in the calves) and retained reddish coats in FR Dams this year more or less since calving. For the last month or so we've had chelated copper & other mins etc. in the form of allsure (there is also a copper only version) in the troughs.

Small net bags, one tablet of each per animal per week - although they don't all dissolve in a week, might be a result of multiple troughs?

The coats do seem to be improving and going back to black - although I suppose it could also be a result of better condition generally with good grass available and better feeding... interestingly the youngest calves, which are mainly on milk - seem the slowest to recover. Maybe copper doesn't transmit from the Dam in the milk easily?

I didn't use injections or bolus because I read something somewhere about difficulty re-breeding if not done well before bulling. This could be complete rubbish or I may have misunderstood it so don't take my word for it.

Will certainly be putting copper in the troughs in the house over the winter - There's enough bloody ginger on this farm as it is.

we used those last year worked well on pb angus heifers, i know what you mean by the whole lot not dissolving, i rang the rep about it and he said its just the shell thats left to dispose of them after the week and put in new ones

reilig

whelan1 wrote: »

we used those last year worked well on pb angus heifers, i know what you mean by the whole lot not dissolving, i rang the rep about it and he said its just the shell thats left to dispose of them after the week and put in new ones

I left the undissolved ones in the drinkers. I just added to them every week. They all dissolved after a few weeks.

kowtow

whelan1 wrote: »

we used those last year worked well on pb angus heifers, i know what you mean by the whole lot not dissolving, i rang the rep about it and he said its just the shell thats left to dispose of them after the week and put in new ones

Didn't look like just a shell to me, in any event I chucked them in the slurry lagoon in the hope that they will find their way into the grass in due course..

awaywithyou

would a soil test be any good in determining the level of copper available and not locked up...?

and if the soil is high molybdenum... does that automatically mean copper will be locked up...

we have a few cows with the rusty hair.... i assume blood samples from those cows would be the only job to find out about the copper?

Volkswagen20

Do you inject it under the skin or into the muscle ?

Lady Haywire

Volkswagen20 wrote: »

Do you inject it under the skin or into the muscle ?

Muscle. Use the neck muscle & not the arse is what I was told last time i used it.

Base price

Volkswagen20 wrote: »

Do you inject it under the skin or into the muscle ?

Deep intramuscular into the neck muscle, i.e. high up on the neck where the neck is thickest. Use a long needle for adult cattle (38mm) and in case you are due a herd test inform your Vet (in advance) that you have injected them with copper.

lab man

How much do u give ?

Bullocks

lab man wrote: »

How much do u give ?

On the bottle we get it says between 4-6ml per cow