NECI sets it sights on the PSA

2011

Fresh from their recent court victory the National Electrical Contractors of Ireland sets it sights on the PSA:

NECI is here for the long Haul will continue to work tirelessly for the benefit of our members. With this in mind we have turned our attention to the Private Security Authority (PSA) and its unwarranted interference with the scope of work carried out by electrical contractors. While this interference will now become our main focus, we will keep a watching brief on industry developments and stamp out any attempt to impose agreements made by others on our members.

See article full here

KoolKid

I'm no fan of the PSA by any means, but can you tell us whats the Unwarranted Interference referring to?

Jnealon

Since your last post on the subject I have seen of heard nothing from this lobby group.
Hot air imo

2011

KoolKid wrote: »

I'm no fan of the PSA by any means, but can you tell us whats the Unwarranted Interference referring to?

Just to be clear: I am not a spokesman or member of NECI (or an electrical contractor).

Having said that my guess is that the "Unwarranted Interference" of the PSA is the that the way that they legally block electrical contractors from carrying out certain aspects of electrical work. The work that I am referring to is primarily related to security systems. Pre PSA electrical contractors did this work then in my opinion they took their eye off the ball and let the PSA take this from them without a fight.

fred funk }{

Can you be more specific? What work do you think electricians should be allowed to do now that they aren't allowed to do since the PSA was established, CCTV, Burglar alarms?

2011

Jnealon wrote: »

Since your last post on the subject I have seen of heard nothing from this lobby group.

You must not read the papers or listen to national news so. They are soley responsible for the Registered Employment Agreements being found unconditional in the Supeme Court.

2011

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Can you be more specific? What work do you think electricians should be allowed to do now that they aren't allowed to do since the PSA was established, CCTV, Burglar alarms?

I did not give my view. I stated what I think the NECI view is.

fred funk }{

2011 wrote: »

I did not give my view. I stated what I think the NECI view is.

What is you view?

2011

fred funk }{ wrote: »

What is you view?

Get rid of the PSA, RECI the ECSSA and self certification for a start.

KoolKid

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Can you be more specific? What work do you think electricians should be allowed to do now that they aren't allowed to do since the PSA was established, CCTV, Burglar alarms?

I would be more interested in hearing your answer to Fred's question

fred funk }{

2011 wrote: »

Get rid of the PSA, RECI the ECSSA and self certification for a start.

Self certification doesn't work.

Jnealon

2011 wrote: »

You must not read the papers or listen to national news so. They are soley responsible for the Registered Employment Agreements being found unconditional in the Supeme Court.

In relation to the PSA, that's what this post is about

2011

Jnealon wrote: »

Since your last post on the subject I have seen of heard nothing from this lobby group.
Hot air imo

Jnealon wrote: »

In relation to the PSA, that's what this post is about

I assume that you mean what have the NECI got to do with the PSA?

I don't know how you missed this (it has been all over the TV, papaers and internet) but the NECI are responsible for a Supeme Court ruling that "has serious implications for hundreds of thousands of workers whose pay is governed by registered employment agreements." This goes way beyond electrical contractors and the entire construction industry.

You can read all about it here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/supreme-court-finds-pay-agreements-unconstitutional-1.1387374


The last time I started a thread on this forum about the NECI was here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83447229

In this thread the NECI link stated: "The PSA (Private Security Authority) is under pressure from the European Commission to reduce its exorbitant fees."

Followed a few days later by:

"Following extensive lobbying by Electrical Contractors and their Trade Associations the Private Security Authority (PSA) has been forced to introduce legislation which would reduce the sectorial fee for contractors with a turnover of less than €300,000 by €1000."


Regardless of your opinion of the NECI if they are publicaly declaring war on the PSA I think that it is fair to say that it has something to do with the PSA.

Are you honestly trying to suggest that this has nothing to do with the PSA??

Stoner

2011 is speculating/guessing on the position of the NECI. Clearly it's just guessing on a third party position, no need try to draw anything else from this IMHO.

I know that there is now an element of work that electrical contractors can't undertake if they are not paid up members of a group, this was work that they previously carried out before but now can't unless they pay a fee.

Also looking back there was little regulations as to whom could install security systems, guys were popping in alarms after two weeks of classes and many were under the counter cash jobs.

What the NECI have to offer to standards of work? I don't know. there is not much in the document to say that they want to regulate anything, just that they seem to view any barriers to getting work as a negative thing.

Maybe their stance will frustrate things enough for a solution to be found, but at the end of they day they are a union. the industry needs regulation and people need to pay tax all once again IMHO.

currently electricians can join a union and get a union card. There may have been issues in the past where non qualified people received unions cards, but this is a legacy issue dating back to a time served apprenticeship.

will membership of a union then allow paid up members to undertake security work?.

I don't know how far this thread can go to be honest. It's all just speculation so far and talk of unions gets people worked up.
We will have to watch it and it will be closed if it gets hairy.

Jnealon

[QUOTE=2011;85294059

You can read all about it here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/supreme-court-finds-pay-agreements-unconstitutional-1.1387374

[/QUOTE]
No mention of the PSA in that article either

2011

Stoner wrote: »

2011 is speculating/guessing on the position of the NECI. Clearly it's just guessing on a third party position, no need try to draw anything else from this IMHO.

Excatly, in my reply to Koolkid I stated "Just to be clear: I am not a spokesman or member of NECI (or an electrical contractor)". I went on to describe what "my guess is". The only information that I have is what I read in the link that I posted, I have not stated what my view is.

2011

Jnealon wrote: »

No mention of the PSA in that article either

Read my 1st post. PSA specifically mentioned & link provided.

In subsequent posts I have tried to explain to you the gravity of the impact that the Supreme Court decision that the NECI are responsible for will have on the industry and the entire country.

Jnealon

No mention of the PSA in the Times article.
The only time the two are mentioned together is in their own propaganda.
Maybe you should change the title of the thread as it is quite misleading

2011

Jnealon wrote: »

The only time the two are mentioned together is in their own propaganda.

As you have now found the references to the PSA I take it you can now see the relevance.

Maybe you should change the title of the thread as it is quite misleading

I feel that anyone that reads the 1st post will have instant clarification.

Jnealon

I'm sorry their own propaganda on their own website is not enough. There was no mention of the PSA or neci, in the same sentence, in the times article or any other press for that matter.
They stated back in February that they were pursuing the PSA over their fees, what happened there now they've jumped on another band wagon.
As I said it's all hot air and until I see other wise I'll reserve judgement

altor

2011 wrote: »

Fresh from their recent court victory the National Electrical Contractors of Ireland sets it sights on the PSA:



See article full here

Looks interesting, hopefully they will have a bigger sway than any of the PSA members. Still no sign of the reduced fee although they will acknowledge its on the way

2011

Jnealon wrote: »

I'm sorry their own propaganda on their own website is not enough.

I have no idea what you mean, not enough for what??

There was no mention of the PSA or neci, in the same sentence, in the times article or any other press for that matter.

I am struggling to see the relevance of PSA and NECI appearing in the same sentence, but I will take your word for it.

They stated back in February that they were pursuing the PSA over their fees, what happened there now they've jumped on another band wagon.

Yes, they did state that they were pursuing the PSA over their fees and having won that (or so it would seem) they now appear to have now shifted their focus. Perhaps that is part of an overall strategy, who knows?

As I said it's all hot air and until I see other wise I'll reserve judgement

It may well be, time will tell. You made a similar remark on the other thread about the PSA fee reduction, but it would appear that the reduction will happen. The TEEU thought that they would beat the NECI and seemed to be doing so for about 5 years yet they lost in the end.

Somehow I think that you are confusing me with somebody that has stated that it is a good idea for the NECI to come after the PSA, (I don't have a position on this). As it happens I am using the services of a contractor that is registered with the PSA as part of a large project at the moment. It actually suits me that none of the other approved contractors on site are able to tender for his work. He does a fantastic job and knows the plant inside out.

Evolution1

Mod edit.

OK guys read the charter, we cant make comments that could expose the privately owned boards.ie to legal action.

Electricman

Latest news on NECI website
http://www.neci.ie/2013/08/private-security-authority-officially-announce-token-reductions/

The problem that electricians have is that they are now required to pay out €2101 per year, simply to contuine to do work on CCTV and Access systems. I for one support them. In my opinion the PSA is a quango which pander to the wishes of large security company's who are ringfencing work for themselves and attempting to squeez out the small operator. NECI have a track record of winning against the odds. Good luck to NECI l, this battle will be interesting.

fred funk }{

Certification and licencing are two separate bodies. The PSA have only recently reduced their fees from €2250 to €1250 every two years.

Certification is done by the likes of the NSAI and EQA. Certification prices vary depending on who you are going with. The price quoted in your link is on the high side.

Do you think any joe soap should be able to install a security system in, for example, a bank without any back ground checks?

Electricman

http://www.neci.ie/2013/10/psa-directors-get-e1923-75-per-meeting/

PSA Directors get €1923.75 per meeting

WOW !!!!:mad:

kub

Electricman wrote: »

http://www.neci.ie/2013/10/psa-directors-get-e1923-75-per-meeting/

PSA Directors get €1923.75 per meeting

WOW !!!!:mad:

Guys would any of you here be kind enough to nominate me to be a director of the PSA. God knows it must be a rough position.

daxander

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Do you think any joe soap should be able to install a security system in, for example, a bank without any back ground checks?

I think any of joe soap will be such a stupid to take a job from bank as also any of bank will give a contract to a joe soap, but for single sole trader who works himself with experience its simply to dear to get a licence.

kub

daxander wrote: »

I think any of joe soap will be such a stupid to take a job from bank as also any of bank will give a contract to a joe soap, but for single sole trader who works himself with experience its simply to dear to get a licence.

A lot of us are sole traders and have had licences for years, even when they were expensive.
We as security installers do follow the law of the land, if others choose to do otherwise then there are consequences.

Electricman

See article on NECI website re PSA Harassment

kub

Electricman wrote: »

See article on NECI website re PSA Harassment

OK I can see both parties position on it. My own thinking is that PSA are wasting their time. I have always been an advocate of them knocking on people's doors who have blank bell boxes especially the HKC Mark 3 units which was introduced after the PSA criteria.

AFAIK it is an offence for an unlicensed installer to fit a system what ever one, but it is also an offence by the customer. I am disappointed that from my own knowledge they have yet to prosecute a customer, especially a house holder.