upgrading PC while the deal is hot

ibstar

Looking to upgrade to i7 (to be more future proof, as I am not willing to upgrade for a very long time). So need a mobo, processor and RAM. Looking for 4 dimm slot Mobo (for easier upgrade in future). Was never good at deciding about Mobos. 8 gig RAM, maybe overkill now, but I think it's best for future proofing the system. Processor I want is i7 ( but keep getting advices to go for i5/i3)

Here is what I have in mind atm:

http://www.dabs.ie/products/intel-core-i7-3770-s1155-3-4ghz-8mb-7YXH.html

http://www.dabs.ie/products/asus-p8h77-m-s1155-intel-z77-ddr3-matx-80TS.html

http://www.dabs.ie/products/corsair-16gb--2x8gb--ddr3-1866mhz-cl10-vengeance-red-performance-desktop-memory-kit-81QG.html

This comes to 475 with free delivery, and with 25e off for two days, it comes out 450. Not sure if I can go wrong on this, but advice is always welcome.

1. What is your budget? [€xxx] 500e ( looking to save due to a nice offer in dabs)

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? [Gaming/Video editing/3D Modelling/HTPC/Internet] (If gaming include which games)

Gaming,Movies,browsing. Looking into buying 3d TV to hook up to computer in near future.

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? [Yes/No] No.

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? [Hard drive/DVD Drive/Case/PSU/etc.] (If possible state brand and model of the parts to ensure compatibility) HDD Sata, DVD drive, Case, power supply (600w), GTX560 (will SLI in future)

5. Do you need a monitor? [Yes/No] No.

5a. If yes, what size do you need. [19'/20'/22'/24'/etc.]

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? [1920x1080/1440x900/etc.] [Yes/No] 1920x1080 24''

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? [Keyboard/Mouse/Wireless Card/Card Reader/Speakers/etc.] NO

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? [Yes/No] Maybe in future if system becomes outdated.

8. How can you pay? [Bank Transfer/Credit Card/Laser] Card

9. When are you purchasing? [In x days] today/tomorow due to deal on dabs

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? [South Dublin City/Cork City/Kerry/etc.] no need for help.

ibstar

Forgot to add. I also would like to record my game play time to time with fraps or any other recording SW.

Monotype

You can only overclock "K" CPUs, so you'd have to switch to a 3570K or 3770K or 4670K or 4770K if you want to overclock and the appropriate "Z" motherboard.

The only benefit the i7 offers is hyperthreading. This has very little benefit in games - some games actually show poorer results. This might change in the future, and there is evidence at present that it will be of some use, but you'd be nearly as well off getting a 3570K and overclocking if you want to maximise your performance for the next couple of years as you'd be getting a very powerful quad core.
Also, if you are not aware, the 3570/3770 Ivy Bridge CPUs have been succeeded by Haswell - which will give you better performance for a given clock speed, but they don't overclock that well. Still, it should definitely be a consideration if you want to have more future upgrade options as it has a new socket and if you are not overclocking, the downsides aren't as big an issue.

Now, if you still want to stick with hyperthreading and Ivy Bridge and not going to overclock, I would suggest that you get the E3-1230v2 instead. This is much the same CPU as the i7 except that it doesn't have integrated graphics. You have a graphics card anyway, so there's not much of an issue. You save €60 though!
http://www.dabs.ie/products/intel-xeon-e3-1230v2-s1155-3-30ghz-8mb-87WM.html

What is the make and model of the power supply unit?

Edit: You could get a Z77 motherboard if you thought that you might use an overclockable CPU in there in the future. You'd pretty much only have the 3770K to upgrade to though and there'll be no more CPUs for the socket.

That RAM is quite high speed. There's no benefit really for using high speed RAM on an Intel system unless it is overclocked. Save some money and get 1333MHz, or even 1600MHz. Also avoid the high heat spreaders as they can get in the way of CPU heatsinks.

Edit 2: That motherboard doesn't support SLI.
http://www.dabs.ie/products/msi-z77a-g45-s1155-intel-z77-ddr3-atx-80KQ.html
http://www.dabs.ie/products/msi-z77a-gd55-s1155-intel-z77-ddr3-atx-80KP.html

ibstar

Thank you for a nice review.
Completley forgot about K CPUs and Haswell (haven't upgraded since Q6600 Q2Q)

Here is what I have in mind after your advice and some research:

http://www.dabs.ie/products/intel-core-i5-4670k-s1150-3-4ghz-6mb-haswell-quad-core-processor-unlocked-8NFZ.html

http://www.dabs.ie/products/corsair-8gb--2x4gb--ddr3-1333mhz-cl9-value-select--desktop-memory-kit-7JGM.html

http://www.dabs.ie/products/gigabyte-z77x-d3h-s1155-intel-z77-ddr3-atx-8006.html


This is my power :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341010

Thank you.

game4it70

You need this mobo or at least Z87 chipset as that one you linked is for ivy/sandybridge.The rest is fine.
http://www.dabs.ie/products/gigabyte-z87x-d3h-s1150-intel-z87-ddr3-atx-8PXG.html?refs=492820000-50509&src=3

I have that cpu so be warned they run damn hot when overclocked :mad:

BloodBath

How about this lot for €373? That cooler would get you to about 4.5ghz. If you only have 1 hard drive I would advise you to get another one or a decent sized ssd. If you are recording games you want a seperate hdd to record to. Not recording to the same hdd the game is running off of. Also try MSI afterburner to record games. It's free and runs better than fraps.


I5 3570k £147

CM 212 evo £25

Asrock Z77 Extreme 4 £102

Crucial 8gb ram kit £46

Monotype

Other option is to get an AMD 8320. It's a bit cheaper than the Intel CPUs, and the extra cores should become more useful down the line. The extra money might allow you to squeeze in the SSD.

ibstar

BloodBath

Looks like a good deal, but im convinced to upgrade to haswell.

BloodBath

It's €410 for the parts you linked without a cpu cooler meaning you won't be able to overclock much. The parts I listed are €40 cheaper with a good cpu cooler that will net you overclocks in the 4.5ghz region. That leaves you enough to get a samsung 840 120gb ssd or even 250gb would be in your budget.

What has you so set on Haswell? Is it worth an extra €130 for 10% more cpu performance? The cpu, board and cooler required are all significantly more expensive.

A 250gb ssd would give you enough room to install a good few games, your os and programs which will give you much bigger noticeable performance gains than the Haswell and allow you to record to your hdd.

Danger781

+1 for the 8320

likeyouI

Danger781 wrote: »

+1 for the 8320

Same here, comparisons on a lot of sites are showing the 8320 to be beating or on par with the 3570k for a lot of games and other games the 3570k is the clear winner like in Starcraft.

I tested these benchmarks against my PC with a 8320 and 660 TI overclocked and a friends 3570k overclocked also with a 660 TI. They seemed very accurate and friend couldn't believe it bet his 3570K in a lot of games

https://teksyndicate.com/videos/crysis-3-benchmarks-amd-fx-8350-vs-intel-i7-3770k-both-overclocked

Danger781

likeyouI wrote: »

Same here, comparisons on a lot of sites are showing the 8320 to be beating or on par with the 3570k for a lot of games and other games the 3570k is the clear winner like in Starcraft.

I tested these benchmarks against my PC with a 8320 and 660 TI overclocked and a friends 3570k overclocked also with a 660 TI. They seemed very accurate and friend couldn't believe it bet his 3570K in a lot of games

https://teksyndicate.com/videos/crysis-3-benchmarks-amd-fx-8350-vs-intel-i7-3770k-both-overclocked

I went with an 8350 in my own build.. I know it's only 0.5Ghz faster but sure..

likeyouI

Danger781 wrote: »

I went with an 8350 in my own build.. I know it's only 0.5Ghz faster but sure..

Yea great CPU but a lot of people are Intel fanboys! No difference really in the processors and heck of a lot cheaper!!

BloodBath

A 3570k at that price is a far better gaming option than an 8320. Did you not notice the price of €170 for a 3570k?

There are 0 games where the 8320 wins. The ones that are on par are being gpu limited before the cpu is a problem.

Per core performance is significantly higher on the 3570k.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/701?vs=698

Danger781

BloodBath wrote: »

A 3570k at that price is a far better gaming option than an 8320. Did you not notice the price of €170 for a 3570k?

There are 0 games where the 8320 wins. The ones that are on par are being gpu limited before the cpu is a problem.

Per core performance is significantly higher on the 3570k.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/701?vs=698

But we have more cores.. :pac:

ibstar

Wow! was never following AMD as I never understood their model names etc, and intel was always in your face type of thing. 70e saving is amazing.

Can someone link a good mobo in 120e range for this processor which supports SLI?

likeyouI

BloodBath wrote: »

A 3570k at that price is a far better gaming option than an 8320. Did you not notice the price of €170 for a 3570k?

There are 0 games where the 8320 wins. The ones that are on par are being gpu limited before the cpu is a problem.

Per core performance is significantly higher on the 3570k.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/701?vs=698

Ur wrong and clueless, check the benchmarks even at 1440p. Its all a myth unless you have two Titan SLI'ed then maybe and going 200 FPS then maybe
u will see the gain with i5, otherwise you won't even notice. When games start using more cores and people recording games the 8320 is the clear winner

BloodBath

Danger781 wrote: »

But we have more cores.. :pac:

That do nothing for games at the moment.

likeyouI wrote: »

Ur wrong and clueless, check the benchmarks even at 1440p. Its all a myth unless you have two Titan SLI'ed then maybe and going 200 FPS then maybe

Harhar good one. Care to provide some evidence that i'm wrong?

Danger781

likeyouI wrote: »

Ur wrong and clueless, check the benchmarks even at 1440p

Ah now.. To be fair most benchmarks would back him up on that but I still refuse to agree with him

When they 3570k does win. it doesn't win by much a lot of the time. Other times it annihilates it's competition.

BloodBath

Danger781 wrote: »

Ah now.. To be fair most benchmarks would back him up on that but I still refuse to agree with him

When they 3570k does win. it doesn't win by much a lot of the time. Other times it annihilates it's competition.

As I said already the only games it draws level with the 8320 in are being gpu limited. If you turned down the graphics settings in these games you would see the intel dominating them again.

It's a simple fact the per core performance is 35%- 45% faster and it shows.

Don't get me wrong the 8320 is a great chip, especially when you overclock the crap out of it but that i5 at €170 is a better deal and has a higher price/performance ratio in games than the 8320.

Danger781

BloodBath wrote: »

As I said already the only game it draws level with the 8320 are being gpu limited. If you turned down the graphics settings in these games you would see the intel dominating them again.

It's a simple fact the cores are 35%- 45% faster and it shows.

35% seems far too high in my opinion, based on what benchmarks I looked at.

You're like an intel salesman. Shoo!

BloodBath

I recommend amd graphics cards more than anything else here and I own shares in AMD. I'm far from an Intel fan boy.

How do you explain the single core benchmarks and the cpu limited game benchmarks like starcraft 2 performing 40-50% better on the intel?

Danger781

BloodBath wrote: »

I recommend amd graphics cards more than anything else here and I own shares in AMD. I'm far from an Intel fan boy.

How do you explain the single core benchmarks and the cpu limited game benchmarks like starcraft 2 performing 40-50% better on the intel?

You are a very confusing person BloodBath

BloodBath

My opinions change all the time. I recommend whatever I think is best at the time based on price/performance and peoples budget's. A 3570k for €170 is a far better gaming option than an 8320 for €144 (amazon prices). You will need a better cooler and a better board to get good overclocks on the 8320 pushing the price roughly on par.

If games start using more threads then the 8320 will close the gap. I don't think we will be seeing 8 thread games anytime soon though. Maybe 6 if we're lucky.

marco_polo

Looks like that price on amazon was a pricing error anyway, back to 205 or thereabouts

ibstar

marco_polo wrote: »

Looks like that price on amazon was a pricing error anyway, back to 205 or thereabouts

I think he was looking at sterling, which roughly comes out to 200e.

The longer this thread goes on, the more I am confused......

I came up with this now. No cooler, as I am thinking of OC when I decide to SLI my gfx.

http://www.dabs.ie/products/amd-fx8-8320-black-edition-vishera-8-core-am3--3-5ghz-16mb-125w-8BXG.html

http://www.dabs.ie/products/asrock-970-extreme4-am3--amd-970-ddr3-atx-7RCB.html

http://www.dabs.ie/products/crucial-8gb--2-x-4gb--ballistix-sport-ddr3-1600mhz-cl9-1-5v-240pin-7Y8S.html


If I go the AMD path, I will have extra cash for an SSD as suggested above.

likeyouI

The benchmarks I posted showed the 8320 on par with the i5 3570k for newer and most demanding games far cry 3 and crysis 3 particularly in windows 8. i5 is better for starcraft but there is nothing in them really with most new games. Apparatly new games like battlefield 4 are going to be using eight cores as they said it is going to be optimized for the newer AMD processors. AMD processors actually work better in Windows 8 as it allows them to utilize all cores better

More comparisons http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28146724-More-real-world-3570k-vs-8350-benchmarks-from-linus.

THis one saying AMD beets Intel in Far Cry 3 and only 2 FPS behind the i5 for crysis 3. Also get more FPS with AMD for battlefield 3!!!

BloodBath

Ah too good to be true. I was talking euro prices. It was down as £140 sterling.

The benchmarks I posted showed the 8320 on par with the i5 3570k for newer and most demanding games far cry 3 and crysis 3 particularly in windows 8. i5 is better for starcraft but there is nothing in them really with most new games. Apparatly new games like battlefield 4 are going to be using eight cores as they said it is going to be optimized for the newer AMD processors. AMD processors actually work better in Windows 8 as it allows them to utilize all cores better

A few things. That's an 8350 clocked 400mhz higher than the i5. As I've explained already though the games where they perform similar or on par the limiting factor is the gpu not the cpu. The graphics settings the games are using are causing the gpu to limit the frames way before the cpu does. If you were to turn the graphics settings down the i5 would be getting a way higher frame rate.

How the next gen consoles change the landscape and how games are programmed is hard to say yet.

Monotype

I don't want to get into a moaning argument, but there was this set of tests where they turned the detail of crysis down to 720p.
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Crysis-3-PC-235317/Tests/Crysis-3-Test-CPU-Benchmark-1056578/
Graphics processing shouldn't be a limiting factor. Looks like they used a titan as this was the only GK110 card released at the time of the review.
EA did say that they were also going to optimise the new Frosbite engine for more cores, which will be running quite a few games.


To be fair, there's little doubt that a 3570K is far more useful as it is now - better raw power, pretty good at overclocking and more frugal with its power when overclocked too. On the other hand, the 8320 should be sufficient now when paired with a good GPU. In the long run, I think that it should match up to the 3570K (well maybe at 8350 speeds or overclocked, but you can overclock the 3570K too by quite a bit, so it gets hard to compare). The money you save can go towards an SSD which makes a huge difference to a system.
If it doesn't keep up with the 3570K? At least you'll have Steamroller to upgrade to, which looks like it will also be coming to AM3+.

The Crysis 3 benchmark is only one game and the testing situation could be slanted towards AMD's favour, but it does show a sample of the way games are headed. Let's just hope that we'll see a few more games in the lifetime of the CPU head that way; games do take a few years to develop, so not everyone will be writing games to maximise use of multiple cores for a while yet.

Edit: But if you wanted the best system and didn't want to upgrade anything or overclock, I think the Xeons are the best deal.

beno619

Bioshock Infinite and Tomb raider and BF3 also do very well on AMD hardware.

Being able to fit an SSD into the build makes more sense the paying the premium for the i5.