Proposed Cork greenway

Roger Hassenforder

Cant see €60,000 going a long way once the consultants get their noses in the trough, but could be great..188km of dedicated off road cycle way...

Cork/Kinsale and Ballinascarthy/Courtmac first out of the blocks.
http://www.build.ie/construction_news.asp?newsid=164528

enas

As a lover of the West Cork railways, I'm delighted to hear that. It will incorporate the Chetwynd Viaduct! Can't wait to see that! Thanks for the information, I'm surprised I hadn't heard of it.

Of course, having a pleasant route to Kinsale will be of a huge benefit for tourism, since the current situation is rather unpleasant on the main road, and not ideal on alternative routes.

Here's s few more links: Irish Examiner (with a wrong photo for the viaduct), an older articel from the Southern Star (mentions the idea of extending the path from Monkstown to Carrigaline), and an even older report from the county council.

All that is very exciting, although it sounds a lot like sweet dreaming

wandatowell

That is fantastic news and should be extended to other tourism driven areas close to major urban areas across the country.

I can only see this being a good thing. I hope the money doesn't get sucked up by leeches

michaelm

Great news! The figure quoted is obviously just for feasability studies so this is going to take some time. Having recently cycled from Kinsale to Cork on the main road I was surprised at how intimidating the route is, particularly the last few Kms before the airport (I'm not from the area and had assumed that such an attraction as Kinsale would be easier accessed by bike from the city).
Greenways are the way to go "If you build it they will come" is particularly apt here. Cork has so much to offer and this project with the viaduct, tunnel and obvious attractions would, I have no doubt, make it a huge success, bring it on! As a matter of interest I really love the quantity and quality of bike stands in the centre of Cork City - best I have seen anywhere!

I've always wanted to see the view from the top of the Viaduct! Would love this to happen.

The more greenways there are the more I'll be able to get my partner to come cycling with me, hooray.

enas

Some good progress happening on this one: http://www.eveningecho.ie/2013/08/01/engineers-to-assess-viaducts-for-use-on-cork-to-kinsale-greenway/

New2bike

enas wrote: »

Some good progress happening on this one: http://www.eveningecho.ie/2013/08/01/engineers-to-assess-viaducts-for-use-on-cork-to-kinsale-greenway/

Sweet this sounds awesome but let's hope they make distinguishable cycle lanes from walking/running lanes as people down the line by Blackrock always give out about cyclists

dogsears

New2bike wrote: »

Sweet this sounds awesome but let's hope they make distinguishable cycle lanes from walking/running lanes as people down the line by Blackrock always give out about cyclists

Even if they do, dogs and kids don't have much regard for cycle lanes, and few enough adults (including cyclists) do too. The lines from Rochestown to Passage and Carrigaline to Crosshaven are signed to indicate which side is for cyclists and which for walkers but it makes no difference and because cyclists are the fastest movers on the track it always looks like they were being reckless whenever there's a close call.

I never bother with them because of that. It would be great if the new greenway was cyclist only but its hard to see that happening (indeed the Echo article attached above refers to walkers also).

ShimanoSid

It looks like this is being killed in the crib.

Without anyone saying, planning on this is stalling. Meantime, they're pushing through an application for a huge marina in Monkstown. Right on the proposed route.

That marina wants to have 174 - ! - car spaces and take up the whole width of the road for a turning lane into it.

So, no Greenway. No room for it. Instead pf a public amenity a huge, private development blocking off the water on what's supposed to be a scenic route.

Instead of a cycle path, existing cyclists will be squeezed into narrower traffic lanes, up against stone walls, six foot fences and traffic cutting across them. In other words, impossible.

And the "public consultation" for that was in Glanmire!

Meanwhile, Passage Town Council votes for this marina and stalls the Greenway.

Of you're a cyclist, start raising Cain about this, fast, before it's killed off sneakily. Forever.

ShimanoSid

It gets better on that one.

The Local Development Plan was changed last year to say no-one could develop anything that even threatens the route of a Greenway. That's being ignored.

Turns out these guys didn't pay their levies. But instead of chasing them, the money's being taken off a playground in the area to pay for the Greenway this mega-marina makes impossible!

Can't post links, but if you Google "Monkstown Marina development levies", you'll get the non-payment, and the playground one is in today's Examiner, page 7, so you can get the link off their website.

This one stinks. It stinks to high heaven.

superhooper

enas wrote: »

Some good progress happening on this one: http://www.eveningecho.ie/2013/08/01/engineers-to-assess-viaducts-for-use-on-cork-to-kinsale-greenway/

Update... I enquired recently to Cork County Council and this project is no more as there was no support from landowners!!!

superhooper

http://www.southernstar.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/04/11/4138049-passage-west-in-new-greenways-plan-but-kinsale-is-shelved-for-now/

Pity

NBar

If the farmers didn't get their Euro grants etc they might be more accepting in the proposal. This country is too slow to develop for the good of its health and people/tourism. How much land would be taken up for a cycle/walkway. Ballygobackwards is alive and well, should have got these going during the recession and compulsory purchase orders for a bit of a ditch/hedge row

TheBlaaMan

NBar wrote: »

If the farmers didn't get their Euro grants etc they might be more accepting in the proposal. This country is too slow to develop for the good of its health and people/tourism. How much land would be taken up for a cycle/walkway. Ballygobackwards is alive and well, should have got these going during the recession and compulsory purchase orders for a bit of a ditch/hedge row

Easier said than done.
Where the land is privately owned, or even if 'squatting' is taking place (eg CIE land long abandoned and farmers 'using it') it can be a nightmare to deal with the individual owners. Ironically, the more agreement you get and the fewer that remain to get, the more the price goes up as the hold-fasts hang on for a pay-out. CPOs are rarely used for 'non-essential' projects.

Add to that the fears of isolated rural communities that greenways will bring an increased risk of burglaries and easy get-aways and it all bogs down.

But you're right, this country seems incapable at times of making headway on many projects that seem to be no-brainers for the majority, and a minority opinion wins the day. Democracy in action, I guess....

PoorFarmer

Farmers get their "Euro grants" so they can produce the top quality food that you eat every day without you having to pay an exorbitant price for it. I'm a farmer and a cyclist and most of the issues that cause these projects to be shelved are because of access. If somebody implemented a CPO on your front lawn and afterwards restricted your access from the road to your front door would you be happy?
Is a pity that this route is being shelved as it would be a major boost for cycling tourists in cork.
Councils and farming groups need to consult more about these projects and come to a proper agreement without automatically swinging the CPO hammer at people

plodder

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Add to that the fears of isolated rural communities that greenways will bring an increased risk of burglaries and easy get-aways and it all bogs down.

Easy get-aways on a greenway? I've heard it all now.

benneca1

Fairly simple really, if there is no personal benefit then landowners say let them go through someone else's land which is understandable.Everyone is in favour of the common good so long as they personally are not impacted. Hard to know what to do about it as current CPO provisions are a bit of a nightmare and very expensive.

LennoxR

I was told in Wexford that there are plans to make the disused railway between New Ross and Waterfrod into a greenway too. It's in teh five year county plan apparently.

ford2600

benneca1 wrote: »

Fairly simple really, if there is no personal benefit then landowners say let them go through someone else's land which is understandable.Everyone is in favour of the common good so long as they personally are not impacted. Hard to know what to do about it as current CPO provisions are a bit of a nightmare and very expensive.

As the Kerrymen say "easy to be generous with the neighbours ass"

From a keyboard it might seem like the farmers here could only be cnuts but there could be a lot of issues; which I've come across in identical projects
*disease control where route splits farms, especially with regard to dogs
*farmers signed up to Borders Bia schemes where there is stipulations on farm access
*construction costs of underpasses/bridges to segregate farm from cycle path or the insurance cost in their absence
*effect on site development where route runs parallel to road access

There is probably more

CapnHex

But North Haverbrook has a (monorail) greenway, why can't Cork.

benneca1

ford2600 wrote: »

benneca1 wrote: »

Fairly simple really, if there is no personal benefit then landowners say let them go through someone else's land which is understandable.Everyone is in favour of the common good so long as they personally are not impacted. Hard to know what to do about it as current CPO provisions are a bit of a nightmare and very expensive.

As the Kerrymen say "easy to be generous with the neighbours ass"

From a keyboard it might seem like the farmers here could only be cnuts but there could be a lot of issues; which I've come across in identical projects
*disease control where route splits farms, especially with regard to dogs
*farmers signed up to Borders Bia schemes where there is stipulations on farm access
*construction costs of underpasses/bridges to segregate farm from cycle path or the insurance cost in their absence
*effect on site development where route runs parallel to road access

There is probably more

I very deliberately did not mention farmers not all landowners are farmers. However, all of the problems you mention are genuine and from my experience all can be solved with a large cheque from the taxpayer. I lived near the area subject to CPO for the Dublin Cork motorway and when the cheque was big enough the problems went away.
No judgement on anybody but that is the way it is.

ford2600

benneca1 wrote: »

I very deliberately did not mention farmers not all landowners are farmers. However, all of the problems you mention are genuine and from my experience all can be solved with a large cheque from the taxpayer. I lived near the area subject to CPO for the Dublin Cork motorway and when the cheque was big enough the problems went away.
No judgement on anybody but that is the way it is.

I don't think we are disagreeing!

The better way is getting farmers involved in the process.

The Sheeps Head Peninsula walking routes/Waterford Greenway might be better models.

On the underpasses for example , in order to comply with Part M the amount of soil that needs moving can be huge and the major cost with haulage etc. Often farmers can move this on their own farm for minimal cost with project paying for someone to erect bridge (which are just press cast slabs or pipes)

All issues above taken care off, no one getting rich and value for taxpayer all with local buy in.

The effect of Waterford Greenway on west of county in particular has been huge and will only grow.

All these things are doable with the right attitude

plodder

benneca1 wrote: »

Fairly simple really, if there is no personal benefit then landowners say let them go through someone else's land which is understandable.Everyone is in favour of the common good so long as they personally are not impacted. Hard to know what to do about it as current CPO provisions are a bit of a nightmare and very expensive.

afaik, the Mayo greenway was developed without CPOs and a purely "permissive" approach from landowners, ie. no personal gain. There are one or two places where it looks like they didn't get permission and instead had to route around, but the vast majority of landowners co-operated.

vinnie_cork

re permissive access, sections of that failed due to farmers applying for planning permission and being refused, they pull the agreed permissive access, this option has been ruled out for all future greenways. Not great to be held to randsom