70 acre farm - mixed quality - blank canvas - what would you do!?

Stationmaster

Hi all,

I've been following this forum for a while now and really impressed with the quality of contributions and advice given.

We're going building on the family farm later this year/early next year. I work 3 days a week, my wife works full time (well she's a teacher so not quite full time!!) and we have 2 young children who are minded nearby by my mother.

The farm consists of around 70 acres. 40 acres approx would be decent ground (not quite as good as it used to be but it hasn't been reseeded or anything in years). The remainder is made up of about 15 acres poorish, wettish ground and about 15 acres which is part peaty but has very good grass in the summer if the weather is fairly decent.

Traditionally my father would have farmed part time. Stocked about 30/35 suckler cows. We would have had about 40/50 ewes as well in the past but not in the last 10 years.

There is a big hay barn and a silage slab but no other buildings really.

So. my question is - if it was your choice to start from scratch what would you do?

I realise everyone has different preferences for farming and a lot of it is dictated by their own farming background.

I presume I should get the soil tested in all the fields and get as much info on the existing land quality as possible.

I don't think I'd have the time or experience to keep a large suckler herd.

After that, I'm open to any ideas! My wife is from a farming background as well and is also keen to get involved workwise.

Any ideas/advice would be gratefully accepted?!

stanflt

Stationmaster wrote: »

Hi all,

I've been following this forum for a while now and really impressed with the quality of contributions and advice given.

We're going building on the family farm later this year/early next year. I work 3 days a week, my wife works full time (well she's a teacher so not quite full time!!) and we have 2 young children who are minded nearby by my mother.

The farm consists of around 70 acres. 40 acres approx would be decent ground (not quite as good as it used to be but it hasn't been reseeded or anything in years). The remainder is made up of about 15 acres poorish, wettish ground and about 15 acres which is part peaty but has very good grass in the summer if the weather is fairly decent.

Traditionally my father would have farmed part time. Stocked about 30/35 suckler cows. We would have had about 40/50 ewes as well in the past but not in the last 10 years.

There is a big hay barn and a silage slab but no other buildings really.

So. my question is - if it was your choice to start from scratch what would you do?

I realise everyone has different preferences for farming and a lot of it is dictated by their own farming background.

I presume I should get the soil tested in all the fields and get as much info on the existing land quality as possible.

I don't think I'd have the time or experience to keep a large suckler herd.

After that, I'm open to any ideas! My wife is from a farming background as well and is also keen to get involved workwise.

Any ideas/advice would be gratefully accepted?!

Set it out to a progressive dairy farmer who will care for it- improve soil structure- swarth quality and the overall appearance of the place- he will fence it and put in proper road ways and water-


In return you could expect 14000 rent per annum and the place will look fantastic and cost you nothing

bob charles

stanflt wrote: »

Set it out to a progressive dairy farmer who will care for it- improve soil structure- swarth quality and the overall appearance of the place- he will fence it and put in proper road ways and water-


In return you could expect 14000 rent per annum and the place will look fantastic and cost you nothing

G, they would want to be a great farmer to first and foremost pay €200 an acre for it, then improve soil structure, reseed it, fence it, roadways and water on top of the 200 rent.

I must be doing things absolutely arseways because there isnt a hope in hell I could afford to rent land costing well over €300 an acre per year as set out above before I apply nitrogen etc to it, and it includes 30 acres of medium land. suppose the old saying holds - fools and their money are easily parted

Stationmaster

No interest renting it. It's the family farm, we'll be living on it and we both want to work it.

yellow50HX

it all depends very much on your knowledge of farming. If you are used to rasign cows and sucklers then that could be a good place to start. do you have plan for maybe going into dairy in a few years time?

if it were me, i'd start off with a few calves, raise some to be suckler cows and the rest for weanling for stores. This would give you options for both and you can see which suits your system best.

as your housig is basic i'd would look to see how suitable the place woul dbe for outwintering. With low stock number syou could put part of teh place in tillage, and kale. The kale can be used for winter fodder with the stubble from the corn to out winter. (the bales can be used to bed in the hayshed if suitable). Feed silage in ring feeders out side. The tillage round can then be rotated back into grass giving a new sward. If you want to stay solely in livestock you can reduce your tillage area and look to improve the winter housing.

from what your saying the land may need some work to get back up to scratch so soil sampling a long term plan for each area would be logical. Once the land has been improved you can then see what direction its best to go with.

upgrading your housing will be dictatced by what kind of livestock you keep and how you plan to winter them (if at all).

IF you were thinking of dairy then there would be a big outlay needed to get up and going espically from scratch.

I know nothing about sheep.

stanflt

bob charles wrote: »

G, they would want to be a great farmer to first and foremost pay €200 an acre for it, then improve soil structure, reseed it, fence it, roadways and water on top of the 200 rent.

I must be doing things absolutely arseways because there isnt a hope in hell I could afford to rent land costing well over €300 an acre per year as set out above before I apply nitrogen etc to it, and it includes 30 acres of medium land. suppose the old saying holds - fools and their money are easily parted

Bob sure you don't value grazed grass

Stationmaster

Definitely no interest in dairying. Thanks for the other ideas though. We currently winter stock outside and just use a few round feeders. Would look at putting up a small shed/slatted house maybe in a few years if I go into finishing cattle.

Muckit

I think there is some merit in what all posters have said so far.
You appear to have a very basic setup facility wise for wintering etc.
You have no stock. Buying in to stock 70 acres will require a lot of money, which you don't have facilities for anyway.
You need to rejuvenate/reseed a lot of ground.
The costs are quickly mounting up, where is money going to come from?

If it was me and was just starting out with 'blank canvas', I would be delighted to be neighbours with a progressive dairy or tillage farmer. Lease him out 20-25 acres on a 5year term. Burst out a gap and let him work away. You then have only 40-45 acres to concern yourself with for 5 years. You have more than enough to be getting on with. Stock the land. Buy in 10-15 weanlings and the same the next year. See can you put up a cheap and cheerful slatted shed. Use the money that you are guaranteed for 5 years (from lease) to do it plus help you get a relatively small credit union loan, which will give you breathing space and is very flexible and easily paid back.

5 years is not a long time. You'I have all land back after that time. If you could manage to get the 40-45 acres looking and producing grass as good as the dairy/tillage lad has with the rest, you'd have a lovely setup altogether. If you lease to tillage lad, stipulate that it has to be reseeded to grass by him before he goes out the gate.

This is just the way I would do it.

delaval

Muckit wrote: »

I think there is some merit in what all posters have said so far.
You appear to have a very basic setup facility wise for wintering etc.
You have no stock. Buying in to stock 70 acres will require a lot of money, which you don't have facilities for anyway.
You need to rejuvenate/reseed a lot of ground.
The costs are quickly mounting up, where is money going to come from?

If it was me and was just starting out with 'blank canvas', I would be delighted to be neighbours with a progressive dairy or tillage farmer. Lease him out 20-25 acres on a 5year term. Burst out a gap and let him work away. You then have only 40-45 acres to concern yourself with for 5 years. You have more than enough to be getting on with. Stock the land. Buy in 10-15 weanlings and the same the next year. See can you put up a cheap and cheerful slatted shed. Use the money that you are guaranteed for 5 years (from lease) to do it plus help you get a relatively small credit union loan, which will give you breathing space and is very flexible and easily paid back.

5 years is not a long time. You'I have all land back after that time. If you could manage to get the 40-45 acres looking and producing grass as good as the dairy/tillage lad has with the rest, you'd have a lovely setup altogether. If you lease to tillage lad, stipulate that it has to be reseeded to grass by him before he goes out the gate.

This is just the way I would do it.

He could part pay you with reared bull calves

Muckit

possibly... I'd have to think about that though, cash might be king :pac: Can't give calves to lad putting up shed or credit union! :pac:

Stationmaster

No dairy farmers nearby! All sucklers and dry cattle.

bob charles

stanflt wrote: »

Bob sure you don't value grazed grass

certainly not this year anyway, so do you consider bare grassland worth north of €300 an acre before putting N on it?

stick €150 of N + €50 other costs on it and your at 500 divide it by 5.5t DM and its costing €90 euro ton of DM, cheap if you say so:rolleyes:

I would forget about building until your a few years in when you may realise this maybe not for you and you decide to rent, alternatively if things are going well you can build. holding dry stock over winter is a mugs game anyway

Muckit

Grass is no good, holding cattle over the winter is a mugs game.......

Ah bob, make up your mind!!

1chippy

If you can id start by buying a bunch of calves and a bunch of weanlings. get either all bulls or all heifers for ease of management. That way after the first outlay at least you will have something following the weanlings and you can start into a system. light animals will be a lot easier to out winter until you get a shed together.Dont go fancy on the shed or the weanlings and both can be worked on as you get the run of things.

kowtow

bob charles wrote: »

certainly not this year anyway, so do you consider bare grassland worth north of €300 an acre before putting N on it?

If the locals here are to be believed that's a reasonable weekly rent.

bob charles

Muckit wrote: »

Grass is no good, holding cattle over the winter is a mugs game.......

Ah bob, make up your mind!!

Grass at over €300 an acre starting out, is no good. nobody in there right mind could pay this for grass, can people not use calculators. I can have two tons of maize in the barn cheaper than the grass costs for rent of an acre. I know what gives more calories.

I don't think I have ever made much money with cattle over winter, just kept money turning which is vitally important in my game

Mulumpy

Id start out small and have a reseeding program in place. You could reseed quarter of the farm this autumn. Buy 25 weanlings in spring fatten them on the reseeds for summer sell in the autumn. Make two cuts of silage from rest of farm and sell. Reseed another quarter in second year and so on. Ya wont make much money but ya will have farm nicely set up til u know what you want to do without too much outlay.

mf240

you could outwinter on the fields that you intend resseding the following year. It should be very easy buy small weanlings this autumn if you had the dry ground with a good cover of grass and a few bales youd get 20 weanling heifers through the winter very cheap.

blackdog1

Personally I would rent land out for 3-4 years continue in my part time job and use the rent money to upgrade/get the farm ready for when you take off.gives you time to appreciate what work you will have to do and what type cattle suite your land and system. .

JohnBoy

Not to put too fine a point on it, but how much cash have you got going into this?

There's no point in talking about large scale reseeding, or buying 20 weanlins if you dont have the price of them and their feeding

If you dont have much then give serious thought to muckit's suggestion, 5 years of stable income from a good farmer on 1/3 of the farm will give you cashflow to invest in the rest of the farm.

If you're over 40 it would be particularly atrractive as the first €12,000 rent would be tax free.

Selling silage off some of the rest may also be useful for cashflow/grass management purposes as you grow.


Invest your rent in drainage and reclamation first, stock second and concrete last. you dont have to keep cattle over the winter initially, and when you start you might be able to work in the wintering as suggested

Username John

Stationmaster wrote: »

Hi all,

I've been following this forum for a while now and really impressed with the quality of contributions and advice given.

We're going building on the family farm later this year/early next year. I work 3 days a week, my wife works full time (well she's a teacher so not quite full time!!) and we have 2 young children who are minded nearby by my mother.

The farm consists of around 70 acres. 40 acres approx would be decent ground (not quite as good as it used to be but it hasn't been reseeded or anything in years). The remainder is made up of about 15 acres poorish, wettish ground and about 15 acres which is part peaty but has very good grass in the summer if the weather is fairly decent.

Traditionally my father would have farmed part time. Stocked about 30/35 suckler cows. We would have had about 40/50 ewes as well in the past but not in the last 10 years.

There is a big hay barn and a silage slab but no other buildings really.

So. my question is - if it was your choice to start from scratch what would you do?

I realise everyone has different preferences for farming and a lot of it is dictated by their own farming background.

I presume I should get the soil tested in all the fields and get as much info on the existing land quality as possible.

I don't think I'd have the time or experience to keep a large suckler herd.

After that, I'm open to any ideas! My wife is from a farming background as well and is also keen to get involved workwise.

Any ideas/advice would be gratefully accepted?!

Hi Stationmaster,

How are you doing?

First off - I assume the farm doesn't need to support your parents, as you haven't mentioned this, and there are no outstanding loans or anything...

For starting off, letting some land, and farming a smaller amount it is a good idea. You can always take the land back, if you want to expand in time.

As a side note - I think what is becoming apparent for me, is letting some land may be the best overall option for me. I know lads may not like to hear / say that.
I like to farm, but I have to be realistic that farming must fit around my family life and full time job. And I can see, that the place isn't being used to its full potential... I can also see that the farm will never generate enough income to become full time...

I know this maybe a little disheartening to read, when you ask what to do, and a lot of lads say "let it"
Only you can decide what to do.

The big question here is "what exactly is it you want from the farm?"

Now, what to do once you have decided on 10 or 70 acres...
You say "I don't think I'd have the time or experience to keep a large suckler herd"

What would you like to have on the farm? Cattle? Sheep? Both?
If cattle, would you like sucklers, or buying in cattle?

I only have sheep, and don't know much about cattle, so I totally accept I am biased.
But maybe for someone in your circumstance sheep might be a good option to start with...
Buy a few ewes + ram this Autumn, have lambs in the Spring. (I assume the hay barn is somewhat closed in, a few gates to divide it up a little, and then make up some small pens, and you could lamb the ewes inside easily enough)

Its hard to say, as you say, everyone has their own bias. And only you know your own situation, interests and abilities, as well as the farm itself and what would work best.

Best of luck with it, whatever you decide.

Keep us informed.

PS - Keep an eye on the CAP deal, see what happens there before you decide to do anything. I know we cant all sit on the fence forever, but at the same time, you want as much info as you can before you make any decisions...

Stationmaster

Sound lads, loads of advice there. I'll be staying working part time for the near future anyway so will not be depending nor expecting to live off the farm income. To be honest, once it doesn't cost me big money over the next couple of years while I get it improved I would be more than happy. At a rough guess I would estimate I'd have about 5k per year for the next few years to invest in it on top of whatever small bit it can generate as well.

My parents won't need any income off so it's mine to do with what I like. I appreciate the advice from a lot of lads about letting it and I can see the merits of it but I don't think I'd go down that route to be honest. Reseeding it in sections and keeping weanlings on it for a few years along with maybe a small flock of sheep might be best for me. I can see how its going and add a small shed/slatted house etc if things go well.

The wife of course wants the few ponies, donkeys, pigs, hens, geese and duck on it as well so there'll prob be more bloody time spent looking after them than anything else!!

But to be honest, it's the way of life we want as much as anything else while obviously, at the same time, maybe making a small additional income for ourselves.

I know very little about the grant system as the father was and is claiming all that so that's definitely an area I need to get up to speed on.

Thanks again to everyone for all the advice - it's very much appreciated.

Muckit

It sounds like you are in the enviable position that money isn't an obstacle to you, so really the world is your oyster! (Was it you that won the euromillions?!?)

Best of luck with it all
Muckit

Markcheese

Put the really wet ground into forestry, then start an improvement plan ,soil testing, reseeding, fencing, water.. Possibly drains.... Concrete last ... If you can convert the old barn into loose housing... Maybe plan on getting into pedigree stock Angus or Hereford (long term)