bought in heifers fed ragwort

johal

hi i bought in 3 yearling heifers from the mart 1 died after 7 weeks another started showing signs drooling. vet suspected it was ragwort poisning and said to send the other 2 heifers to the factory straight away . vet sent samples to lab and confirmed it today. 2 week ago a farmer who bought 2 heifers at the same mart from the same seller phoned me if my heifers were ok as his 2 had died after 8 weeks
my other heifers are ok not from same farm as dead heifers . not dealer cattle but very good charolais suckler heifers. i am down aprox 1800 euros no bill from vet yet . what to do

bob charles

johal wrote: »

hi i bought in 3 yearling heifers from the mart 1 died after 7 weeks another started showing signs drooling. vet suspected it was ragwort poisning and said to send the other 2 heifers to the factory straight away . vet sent samples to lab and confirmed it today. 2 week ago a farmer who bought 2 heifers at the same mart from the same seller phoned me if my heifers were ok as his 2 had died after 8 weeks
my other heifers are ok not from same farm as dead heifers . not dealer cattle but very good charolais suckler heifers. i am down aprox 1800 euros no bill from vet yet . what to do

contact the mart and tell them your story and put the ball in their court. surely the seller will have to come to some sort of agreement if they are anyway straight at all

johal

i got onto the mart and he got onto the seller and said seller was very un cooprerative and left it at that dept vets do not have any intrest either rgsj

yellow50HX

johal wrote: »

hi i bought in 3 yearling heifers from the mart 1 died after 7 weeks another started showing signs drooling. vet suspected it was ragwort poisning and said to send the other 2 heifers to the factory straight away . vet sent samples to lab and confirmed it today. 2 week ago a farmer who bought 2 heifers at the same mart from the same seller phoned me if my heifers were ok as his 2 had died after 8 weeks
my other heifers are ok not from same farm as dead heifers . not dealer cattle but very good charolais suckler heifers. i am down aprox 1800 euros no bill from vet yet . what to do

thats a fair dose. cattle wont eat ragwoth if its in the field so i'm assuming its from silage as they were proabbly beign fed it up until they were sold.

i'm just thinking could this issue be more common this year? with the shortage of fodder this year i reckon lads cut and baled anything they could back in the spring, and i'd say there were planty of lads who baled bad fileds and sold the bales at a nice handy price. For the cattle to die they must have injested a fair amount of the stuff. There was a place covered in ragweed near here that i saw knocked last summer, thought the lad you had it was going wrapping it but he was after spraying and was going to reseed but wanted the grass knocked to make it easier to plough.

pakalasa

Whelan1 went through all this, If I remember right. She might be able to help you.

whelan1

pakalasa wrote: »

Whelan1 went through all this, If I remember right. She might be able to help you.

still going through it, will pm the op....

whelan1

yellow50HX wrote: »

thats a fair dose. cattle wont eat ragwoth if its in the field so i'm assuming its from silage as they were proabbly beign fed it up until they were sold.

i'm just thinking could this issue be more common this year? with the shortage of fodder this year i reckon lads cut and baled anything they could back in the spring, and i'd say there were planty of lads who baled bad fileds and sold the bales at a nice handy price. For the cattle to die they must have injested a fair amount of the stuff. There was a place covered in ragweed near here that i saw knocked last summer, thought the lad you had it was going wrapping it but he was after spraying and was going to reseed but wanted the grass knocked to make it easier to plough.

they will eat ragworth in the field if they have nothing else to eat, also will eat it in toppings or if it is not fully dead after being sprayed, ragworth is palatable when dying.... what other symptoms did they have?

buffalobilly

How much would they need to eat for it to kill them

whelan1

buffalobilly wrote: »

How much would they need to eat for it to kill them

3kg fresh weight is enough to do the damage, if you are pulling ragworth dispose of it away from where livestock can get at it

mf240

Remember herding rented land one sunday and seen a bb weanling eating ragworts that we're growing he was eating the yellow flowers.

Spent the whole day with me head down and arse up pulling ragworts.

The weanling was on farm untill slaughter and was perfect.

I think large volumes in silage are the only real danger.

Oh and the weanling had lots of grass.

vanderbadger

in this case surely the mart cant just say seller is uncooperative and leave it at that, i wonder do they have an obligation to the buyers if the seller wont look after them directly and then persue the seller themselves?

whelan1

mf240 wrote: »

I think large volumes in silage are the only real danger.

Oh and the weanling had lots of grass.

see this is the problem, its not only in silage, when spraying you have to make sure all plants are dead before grazing, also toppings are very palatable.... they can also eat it in hay but its not as palatable as in silage as it has been preserved- have done alot of research on this http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CFEQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.veterinaryirelandjournal.com%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fpdfs%2Fla%2Fla_feb_2012.pdf&ei=_qbKUcD-JIyQ7AbchIHoDw&usg=AFQjCNFCWQmvDg7PTy-oxY-R011Z2K5pZQ&sig2=DBCqmuklLBjRgzzfHT58EQ&bvm=bv.48340889,d.ZGU

whelan1

vanderbadger wrote: »

in this case surely the mart cant just say seller is uncooperative and leave it at that, i wonder do they have an obligation to the buyers if the seller wont look after them directly and then persue the seller themselves?

most cattle are sold as seen in the mart, i think.... i suppose the fact there are 2 farmers in the same boat is good , as in they both have the same problem from the same source

hugo29

whelan1 wrote: »

see this is the problem, its not only in silage, when spraying you have to make sure all plants are dead before grazing, also toppings are very palatable.... they can also eat it in hay but its not as palatable as in silage as it has been preserved- have done alot of research on this http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CFEQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.veterinaryirelandjournal.com%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fpdfs%2Fla%2Fla_feb_2012.pdf&ei=_qbKUcD-JIyQ7AbchIHoDw&usg=AFQjCNFCWQmvDg7PTy-oxY-R011Z2K5pZQ&sig2=DBCqmuklLBjRgzzfHT58EQ&bvm=bv.48340889,d.ZGU

good article that

Dampintheattic

mf240 wrote: »

Remember herding rented land one sunday and seen a bb weanling eating ragworts that we're growing he was eating the yellow flowers.

Spent the whole day with me head down and arse up pulling ragworts.

The weanling was on farm untill slaughter and was perfect.

I think large volumes in silage are the only real danger.

Oh and the weanling had lots of grass.

Made 15 bales in a grazing field last week. Had a good few ragworts last year, which I pulled.
Had some growing in the crop of silage this year, but not so visable, as they have'nt yet flowered.
Still, I walked the field, ten times before cutting, and pulled everything I could see. Say 30 plants. Walked the rows again after cutting, to see if I could find more. Got only three.
Have kept the bales one side. When feeding, I will fork it in piecemeal to the stock, and keep a sharp eye out.
Hopefully, that will be enough to keep them safe

johal

one heifer 3 weeks after buying her got thin but was still eating and looked healthy so i dosed her for fluke .then about 2 weeks later started drooling i called the vet he injected her . the next day she was walking around the field non stop dragging her rear leg and drooling,the next day she died. 2 days later another heifer started drooling so vet advised to send to the factory straight away as he suspected ragwort. all other heifers fine .

nashmach

vanderbadger wrote: »

in this case surely the mart cant just say seller is uncooperative and leave it at that, i wonder do they have an obligation to the buyers if the seller wont look after them directly and then persue the seller themselves?

I'd agree with this - you need to talk to someone on the board of management of the mart if you are not having any success with the manager.

bob charles

nashmach wrote: »

I'd agree with this - you need to talk to someone on the board of management of the mart if you are not having any success with the manager.

marts usually dont want to know of problems after purchase which is all wrong considering that its with the mart you make the transaction and not with the previous owner.

whelan1

johal wrote: »

one heifer 3 weeks after buying her got thin but was still eating and looked healthy so i dosed her for fluke .then about 2 weeks later started drooling i called the vet he injected her . the next day she was walking around the field non stop dragging her rear leg and drooling,the next day she died. 2 days later another heifer started drooling so vet advised to send to the factory straight away as he suspected ragwort. all other heifers fine .

no harm to get liver biopsy done on remaining ones as they might also have eaten it.... symptoms can occur upto 6 months after ingestion..good luck with it

nashmach

bob charles wrote: »

marts usually dont want to know of problems after purchase which is all wrong considering that its with the mart you make the transaction and not with the previous owner.

Need to shout louder then but I agree with you that it is all wrong....:mad:

bob charles

farmer that owned them before will just say they may have consumed the ragwort on your place and likewise for the other buyer that lost animals. You should have gotten the livers back off the slaughter house so as to show it was ragwort problems as now your and your vet are speculating without proof. I presume this would be a very hard case to win if you go the legal route. I have had similar problems in the past and just take it on the chin as would waste more time, money and energy chasing it up. I have a dead cow today that has being pining for the last 5 weeks and not interest in eating, tried everything but as usually lead was the only cure - she may have something along the lines to your ones as similar symptoms

johal

the vet did a post mortum on the dead heifer and sent it to the lab. got the result on monday confirming ragwort. so i have proof of one heifer and a vets opinion on the others. my other option was to keep the other 2 heifers and watch them die and send their livers to the lab to confirm ragwort poisning. and still get nothing in the end

bob charles

johal wrote: »

the vet did a post mortum on the dead heifer and sent it to the lab. got the result on monday confirming ragwort. so i have proof of one heifer and a vets opinion on the others. my other option was to keep the other 2 heifers and watch them die and send their livers to the lab to confirm ragwort poisning. and still get nothing in the end

No, you could have gotten the livers back after the animals were slaugthered and then sent them for further testing to provide proof. give me proof anyday over professional opinion if heading up the steps.

mf240

Would stay after the Mart about it. Make it that they can't ignore you.

Wouldn't head up the steps over it though. No winners only the solicitors once you go that road.

bob charles

Seems that ragwort poisoning is very prevalent this year. I have had on myself (didn't joint the dots till you's started talking about it on here) and reckon there is another young heifer the same way. From talking to a few people they are of the opinion that allot of the imported hay contained ragwort. I did see some of the wrapped bales and there were plant of stems protruding out through the plastic

The cow I lost was perfect when bought in the mart but she was on imported hay as i left her at another persons yard. I wont be going back as she was a cow bought for around €600 and with those cows its a sold as seen job:D.

This could become a very costly problem for anyone that has bought stock this year as it can just linger for a few months. Most of animals come out of areas that had the worst fodder problems. If an animal is starving it will eat ragwort but if there is plenty of grub in front of them they will sort them out and leave behind. Its a cost I hadnt factored in and considered up until now. hope these are just isolated incidents

Dampintheattic

Always thought ragwort in hay, was not a serious problem. Cattle able to identify it, and leave it behind them.
Different story in silage though, as its less easy for cattle to sort it out.

bob charles

Dampintheattic wrote: »

Always thought ragwort in hay, was not a serious problem. Cattle able to identify it, and leave it behind them.
Different story in silage though, as its less easy for cattle to sort it out.

usually not a serious problem but many cattle were starving this spring waiting for grub

johal

it seems to affect younger animals worse as their liver is smaller and not fully grown but a larger animal will still die when the liver fails it just depends on the amount eaten. good info on symptoms on a us website as the symptoms may vary from animal to animal. i will try and find it again

yellow50HX

bob charles wrote: »

Seems that ragwort poisoning is very prevalent this year. I have had on myself (didn't joint the dots till you's started talking about it on here) and reckon there is another young heifer the same way. From talking to a few people they are of the opinion that allot of the imported hay contained ragwort. I did see some of the wrapped bales and there were plant of stems protruding out through the plastic

The cow I lost was perfect when bought in the mart but she was on imported hay as i left her at another persons yard. I wont be going back as she was a cow bought for around €600 and with those cows its a sold as seen job:D.

This could become a very costly problem for anyone that has bought stock this year as it can just linger for a few months. Most of animals come out of areas that had the worst fodder problems. If an animal is starving it will eat ragwort but if there is plenty of grub in front of them they will sort them out and leave behind. Its a cost I hadnt factored in and considered up until now. hope these are just isolated incidents

yeah thats my theroy too. lads ended up getting silage anywhere they could find it/afford it. the quality in many places was questionable. was talkign to a lorry driver in work last week and he was talking about how he has noticed that places he would have seen witha lot of ragworth in them now have nice green fields. he tought that maybe there was a mad need to re seed but reckons now that these palces were cut for silage in the spring and that its regrowth he is seeing.