Copyright laws and samples etc...

shane9689

So ive been making some of my own stuff for awhile and trying to learn to dj and produce etc...the usual

ofcourse every now again i use samples bits of stuff mix mash and generally play around with everything and anything

but i often wondered, if i was to make an album of some sort or to go about things legitimately what should i consider in terms of copyright?

i know officially you have to get copyright and pay royalties for every tid bit, but lets be honest here, electronic music wouldnt be what it is today without the level of sampling and mixing that is used by nearly everyone, and i know its just not fee sable to chase 100's if not thousands of copyrights

just want to see what do all of you guys think/do in this case? im not talking about copying peoples music and calling it my own, i mean using lets say 4-8 bar loops and playing with it, or just sounds...maybe longer samples at times, but ofcourse for the longer ones id get the rights for it as otherwise it just feels wrong to call it my own, but for shorter almost unrecognisable samples, what do you do?

LeBash

shane9689 wrote: »

So ive been making some of my own stuff for awhile and trying to learn to dj and produce etc...the usual

ofcourse every now again i use samples bits of stuff mix mash and generally play around with everything and anything

but i often wondered, if i was to make an album of some sort or to go about things legitimately what should i consider in terms of copyright?

i know officially you have to get copyright and pay royalties for every tid bit, but lets be honest here, electronic music wouldnt be what it is today without the level of sampling and mixing that is used by nearly everyone, and i know its just not fee sable to chase 100's if not thousands of copyrights

just want to see what do all of you guys think/do in this case? im not talking about copying peoples music and calling it my own, i mean using lets say 4-8 bar loops and playing with it, or just sounds...maybe longer samples at times, but ofcourse for the longer ones id get the rights for it as otherwise it just feels wrong to call it my own, but for shorter almost unrecognisable samples, what do you do?

There is a good documentory about this called something like the "rip a mix manifesto" and it follows Girl Talk who makes mash ups. As far as it goes there is an undefined term of fair usage that can be used and argued but its generally frowned upon.

leggo

The Hood Internet recently put out an interview with DJTT discussing a range of issues, this among them. In it, they basically said that they're putting out anything with any questionable copyright issues for free on Soundcloud etc as nobody seems to be chasing up copyright issues anymore for freebies. They then make their money off live gigs. Tbh I think that's the way the wind is blowing in general, so probably your best bet to start out at least (besides you're not going to sell anything - thus needing to worry about going 'legit' - unless you have a following by putting out free stuff).

Besides, there's no real moral quandry with sampling, IMO, if you successfully re-imagine the original in a new light. Now if you do what a lot of others are doing these days (especially in deep house) by just adding a bassline to a known loop on repeat...then that'd be a bit questionable.

shane9689

Thanks guys
might watch that when i get the chance

yeah, i was reading up on it, and alot of what ye said seems to be the case, although i read an article that said soundcloud are cracking down on copyright since they've grown as a website, they might aswell shoot themselves in the head because it was electronic music that made that website so big, but mixcloud seems to be the alternative?

no, i wont be charging for my music...but even releasing free stuff can get hassle
kinda strongly against most creative copyrights in their current form..... the whole point of copyright is so the original creator gets the credit/reignition for their work, but now its being turned into a money racket and instead just making sure they get the credit, money making record companies are doing it just for the money, which isnt really what copyright was for.

i read somewhere that allegedly the Beasty boys said that if they tried to make their older albums today as legally as they did then, they wouldnt have made any money from it

but yeah, i think these copyright issues will eventually fade as the culture of the next generation is changing

mordeith

shane9689 wrote: »

kinda strongly against most creative copyrights in their current form..... the whole point of copyright is so the original creator gets the credit/reignition for their work, but now its being turned into a money racket and instead just making sure they get the credit, money making record companies are doing it just for the money, which isnt really what copyright was for.

I'd take a different view myself. Copyright is there to protect the rights of the original author of a work and to prevent others making money off it. It's not just there so he/she gets credit for it.
A record company has every right to demand royalties for samples used. After all they have put money into the marketing and production of the original in the first place. Of course this is probably less true today, at least with dance music as the producer is probably sending it to company as a complete package barring a bit of mastering.

LeBash

mordeith wrote: »

I'd take a different view myself. Copyright is there to protect the rights of the original author of a work and to prevent others making money off it. It's not just there so he/she gets credit for it.
A record company has every right to demand royalties for samples used. After all they have put money into the marketing and production of the original in the first place. Of course this is probably less true today, at least with dance music as the producer is probably sending it to company as a complete package barring a bit of mastering.

While in theory you are fully correct in practice it is hard. Anyway, typical of the music industry they only see the negitive and never look to exploit a potential good situation.

Who was Dido before her sample was used in Stan as an example. Imo they should look at it from the angle that they can release a track or get some further revenue by pushing the original a little as a mix or sample peeks on a chart. They infact should encourage it as currently a song has a heavy rotation of about 3-6 months and its gone. When Puff Daddy used the sample from the Police, there was talk of a Police tour and their own track was back on the radio.

Even if nobody gains anything from someone sampling bo diddly, nobody has lost it either but they have a fighting chance at selling a few bo diddly album or singles if it is used.

mordeith

LeBash wrote: »

While in theory you are fully correct in practice it is hard. Anyway, typical of the music industry they only see the negitive and never look to exploit a potential good situation.

Who was Dido before her sample was used in Stan as an example. Imo they should look at it from the angle that they can release a track or get some further revenue by pushing the original a little as a mix or sample peeks on a chart. They infact should encourage it as currently a song has a heavy rotation of about 3-6 months and its gone. When Puff Daddy used the sample from the Police, there was talk of a Police tour and their own track was back on the radio.

Even if nobody gains anything from someone sampling bo diddly, nobody has lost it either but they have a fighting chance at selling a few bo diddly album or singles if it is used.

while your point may be valid I think your examples don't back them up. The Dido sample made Stan the standout track on that album and Puff Daddy basically used the whole Police song. Either way the original artist also gained monetarily from the remixes which is the way it should operate.
Ps I agree with your sentiment about the music industry though. The system should be made easier while still protecting original works.

shane9689

I think we need to rethink what musics all about in the first place, getting rich and famous? or is it about creativity...if someones good, it shouldn't matter too much if people copy them because at the end of the day, they're the ones who have the talent to do it time and time again while everyone else is just a tag along copy. if you look at at Irish music, sourcing some of the music can be a tedious and impossible task sometimes and you get all sorts of leads, while sourcing the good Irish musicians is easy. i do believe some copyright is important, but these days it just seems all too much, it crushes the creativity and limits the amateur whos trying to learn to an extent imo

mordeith

shane9689 wrote: »

if someones good, it shouldn't matter too much if people copy them because at the end of the day, they're the ones who have the talent to do it time and time again while everyone else is just a tag along copy. . . .
It crushes the creativity and limits the amateur whos trying to learn to an extent imo

Again I have to take the opposite view here. You won't learn anything by just ripping off someone else's work. Sure a small sample may enhance one of your own compositions but creativity isn't about copying someone's work and adding a different kick and bassline. Copyright if anything encourages creativity but making sure artists strive to create their own sounds. I mean that tripe David Guetta had out where he just used the main riff from 'Better Off Alone'. He probably knocked that out in 5 mins. Where's the creativity in that? (he was much better before he made it in America)
Anyhoo I don't want to get into an argument or anything with ya Shane. Just my thoughts.

Executive Steve

Copyright isn't really an issue until you start getting tunes signed tbh, sample away.

Even when you do start getting tunes signed odds are if it's a small label and you're selling less than a thousand units nobody will be bothered; especially if you twist and process (as you really should be doing to make it your own and put your own stamp on it) your audio.

shane9689

thanks for the replys...anyways had this question on my mind as ive started sampling alot lately...ill show you guys what i mean when i post it up in the feedback page in a month or so