A Goal worth four Points !

Xenophile

A Goal worth four Points !

In both hurling and football, is there merit in this suggestion? I think so.

frag420

Xenophile wrote: »

A Goal worth four Points !

In both hurling and football, is there merit in this suggestion? I think so.

Why stop there? Make it seven points for a goal and three for a wide but only if it was close to the posts and a good effort!!

mickdw

Xenophile wrote: »

A Goal worth four Points !

In both hurling and football, is there merit in this suggestion? I think so.

Wouldnt fancy it. It's just right as it is.

Clareman

I'd be interested in giving the whole sideline puck 2 points thing ago again, it was a real risk/reward thing.

Indie.

Xenophile wrote: »

I think so.

Care to expand?

68Murph68

Make a goal worth 7 points, a traditional point worth 2 and a fisted point worth 1

lycan238

Clareman wrote: »

I'd be interested in giving the whole sideline puck 2 points thing ago again, it was a real risk/reward thing.

this I would like to see. hitting a point over the bar from a sideline ball or kicking the point will make it more exciting and add a different dimension to play.

68Murph68 wrote: »

Make a goal worth 7 points, a traditional point worth 2 and a fisted point worth 1

Not sure I agree on the goal worth 7 points big jump from 3. the rest I agree with.

Fireball07

Clareman wrote: »

I'd be interested in giving the whole sideline puck 2 points thing ago again, it was a real risk/reward thing.

I used to think this alright, it's a great skill.....and there are some players that are able to do it regularly (although seemingly less in the last year or two??) but I wonder would it lead to teams playing for sidelines in attacking positions??


Not an easy thing to do, but if you had someone who could pretty reliably put them over, I bet teams would try.

Hibbeler

How about matching the goalposts and scoring with the international rules series?

Dirty Dingus McGee

lycan238 wrote: »

this I would like to see. hitting a point over the bar from a sideline ball or kicking the point will make it more exciting and add a different dimension to play.



Not sure I agree on the goal worth 7 points big jump from 3. the rest I agree with.

Its only a small jump seeing as a point has doubled in value.Basically with his suggestion a goal would be worth a small bit more than it is currently

Dirty Dingus McGee

The scoring system is the one thing I would never change with GAA.Its perfect as it is.The greatest skill in football is scoring a point if you increase the value of a goal relative to a point you decrease the reward for scoring a point.

No way should sideline cuts be worth 2 points..

Scenario A

A player makes a brilliant block the ball goes out for a sideline cut, the sideline cut goes over the bar a good piece of defending is punished by conceding 2 points

Scenario B

A players jersey is deliberately pulled, he takes the free and scores 2 points.A lazy piece of defending and cynical play is punished by conceding 1 point.

A sideline cut is a great skill but so are many other scores skillful should we award bonus points for particularly skillful scores of any kind.Being able toscore a poiint that most players can't is reward in itself

68Murph68

lycan238 wrote: »

Not sure I agree on the goal worth 7 points big jump from 3. the rest I agree with.

Basically it's to reduce fisted points and increase the number of attempts at goal.

At the moment getting a goal is only worth 3 times a fisted point.

It requires very little skill to fist a point.

At the moment the scoring system doesn't sufficiently reward a player for the risk and greater skill needed to score a goal.

Imagine how much more likely players would be to go for a goal as opposed to fisting over a point if it were worth 7 times a fisted point.

I'd also like to the number of yellow/black cards be used to decide a result if a match finished level.

Both team finish on 10 points a piece but one side have 4 yellow cards and the other have 2. In that case the team with less yellows gets the win. Very little chance of it happening but it would increase the penalty for foul play.

knotknowbody

I think the scoring system is pretty good as it is I think 3 points is about right for a goal, I have talked about this before with friends and the only suggestion that had any significant level of approval was to give 2 points for a long range point so anything kicked/pucked from outside the 45/65 metre line got double, this would in theory reward the extra skill involved in scoring from distance.

It wouldn't work though as I think it would lead to a crowding out of the midfield area as teams and players try for long range points, and the opposition move the defence out somewhat to counter this, which I suppose could lead to more space inside and more goals or goal chances if you can feed the ball in quick.

Fr Tod Umptious

68Murph68 wrote: »

Basically it's to reduce fisted points and increase the number of attempts at goal.

At the moment getting a goal is only worth 3 times a fisted point.

It requires very little skill to fist a point.

At the moment the scoring system doesn't sufficiently reward a player for the risk and greater skill needed to score a goal.

Imagine how much more likely players would be to go for a goal as opposed to fisting over a point if it were worth 7 times a fisted point.

I'd also like to the number of yellow/black cards be used to decide a result if a match finished level.

Both team finish on 10 points a piece but one side have 4 yellow cards and the other have 2. In that case the team with less yellows gets the win. Very little chance of it happening but it would increase the penalty for foul play.

I think the fisted point is a great part of the game.
Great to see a good intelligent player fist over a point when a a game is in the balance rather than take on an impossible shot of a goal or a point

Great example here by your own countyman Thomas O' Se getting the winning point from the fist (about 1mn 49sec in)

Cake Man

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The scoring system is the one thing I would never change with GAA.Its perfect as it is.The greatest skill in football is scoring a point if you increase the value of a goal relative to a point you decrease the reward for scoring a point.

No way should sideline cuts be worth 2 points..

Scenario A

A player makes a brilliant block the ball goes out for a sideline cut, the sideline cut goes over the bar a good piece of defending is punished by conceding 2 points

Scenario B

A players jersey is deliberately pulled, he takes the free and scores 2 points.A lazy piece of defending and cynical play is punished by conceding 1 point.

A sideline cut is a great skill but so are many other scores skillful should we award bonus points for particularly skillful scores of any kind.Being able toscore a poiint that most players can't is reward in itself

I think a better way of looking at it would be that the player who cuts the ball over the bar from a sideline is rewarded for a sublime piece of skill, as opposed to a more cynical way of looking at it saying that a player is punished by making a great block and the ball going out for said sideline.

Like, another example would be if in the last minute of a game with both teams level, a forward of one team gets a ball and drills it top corner, keeper makes an unbelieveable save diving across the goal to tip it around the post and then from the resultant 65’, the other team put it over the bar to win the game. You could also make the point that that’s unfair but that doesn’t mean 65’s should be gotten rid of!

I’d be in favour of 2 points for a sideline but just my opinion!

Xenophile

Further reflection, yes a goal be worth four points, would lead us back to the more traditional game of high fielding and long kicking. Nervous backs would be more inclined to cynical fouling, but points can add up. Less hand passing the better, get the ball in quickly and into the back of the net for four points.

theoneeyedman

Imo there is little or no skill in a fisted point. It should be removed from the game. This would encourage players to think about working a goal chance rather than taking the soft option

harpsman

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Imo there is little or no skill in a fisted point. It should be removed from the game. This would encourage players to think about working a goal chance rather than taking the soft option

Agree-said same thing on forum here a while back and got attacked by somebody claiming it would cuase lots of ugly goalmouth scrambles!

lycan238

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Imo there is little or no skill in a fisted point. It should be removed from the game. This would encourage players to think about working a goal chance rather than taking the soft option

the soft option eh. I have seen on many occasions (both live and on tv) scoring chances being lost as the player has decided not to take the chance at a fisted point. This reluctance has resulted in games been lost a higher wide count as players have tried to fashion to kick a point resulting in the initial chance being lost or the resulting kick missing.

By the way I am not talking about a player being one on one with the keeper and fisting over I am talking general play.

megadodge

This is Martin Breheny's old baby rearing it's ugly head up yet again. Every year for about 10 years during the off-season when he had little to write about, Breheny would suggest that making a goal worth 4 points would mean more goal-seeking and more imaginative attacking play.

He never once in those 10 years thought about what defenses would do to counteract 4 point goals!

There would be even more negative and cynical play, with even more packed defences to make sure that a goal wasn't scored under any circumstances. I genuinely believe there would be less goals scored if they increased the value.

The scoring system is fine as it is.

Dirty Dingus McGee

harpsman wrote: »

Agree-said same thing on forum here a while back and got attacked by somebody claiming it would cuase lots of ugly goalmouth scrambles!

Sometimes a fisted point can be a way out if a player is bottled up close to the goal.I hate to see players do it when they are clean through for a goal but if a full forward gets surrounded quickly then a shot for goal is not an option and so a fisted pointed is really his only choice.

randd1

Think the 4 point goal would be worth looking at in the football, if to encourage more attacking and reward a positive attitude in going for goal.

I think hurling is too open a game to have a goal worth 4 points, and there tends to be more goals in hurling anyway.

InchicoreDude

It requires very little skill to fist a point.

Imo there is little or no skill in a fisted point. It should be removed from the game. This would encourage players to think about working a goal chance rather than taking the soft option

That is not true. It takes a lot of skill to work the ball into a position where you can fist the ball over the bar.

However, an experiment with a goal = 4 points would be an interesting one.

2 points for a sideline cut is too much however.

Lucena

InchicoreDude wrote: »

That is not true. It takes a lot of skill to work the ball into a position where you can fist the ball over the bar.

I agree, it's part of the play. I don't see any reason to only reward things that are "skillful".

It's a bit like making a goal in hurling only worth two points because the guy played along the ground as opposed to rising the ball, running along for 20 metres with the sliotar on the end of the stick and then whacking it in the back of the net.

All these skills exist as part of a tool-kit that the player and the team have to use as efficiently as possible.

antoobrien

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

A sideline cut is a great skill but so are many other scores skillful should we award bonus points for particularly skillful scores of any kind.Being able toscore a poiint that most players can't is reward in itself

Sideline cuts being scored are so rare - there are maybe 3 lads in each county that can do it regularly - that it should be rewarded, if for no other reason than to make players try harder to keep the ball in play.

Lucena

antoobrien wrote: »

Sideline cuts being scored are so rare - there are maybe 3 lads in each county that can do it regularly - that it should be rewarded, if for no other reason than to make players try harder to keep the ball in play.

Lads scoring by facing away from the goal and shooting behind them is rare as well, let’s make that worth double as well.

As regards keeping the ball in play, I don’t see that as a problem, the penalty for knocking the ball out of play is giving away possession.

grenache

There are a few things that need changing in the world of GAA (mainly in football) but the value of a goal is certainly not one of them! Move it to four points and suddenly teams will be going for goals at almost every available opportunity, which means defences will be even more packed than they already are. It will make things worse rather than better.

3 points for a goal is perfect as it is. No need to fix something that isn't broken.

efb

Cake Man wrote: »

I think a better way of looking at it would be that the player who cuts the ball over the bar from a sideline is rewarded for a sublime piece of skill, as opposed to a more cynical way of looking at it saying that a player is punished by making a great block and the ball going out for said sideline.

Like, another example would be if in the last minute of a game with both teams level, a forward of one team gets a ball and drills it top corner, keeper makes an unbelieveable save diving across the goal to tip it around the post and then from the resultant 65’, the other team put it over the bar to win the game. You could also make the point that that’s unfair but that doesn’t mean 65’s should be gotten rid of!

I’d be in favour of 2 points for a sideline but just my opinion!

Why would the forward go for goal? Clean over the bar- game won, given a resultant 65 was the final play