Land tax

Sam Kade

I just heard on the news where some councillor Tom Barry is proposing a €10/acre land tax :rolleyes: his excuse is that it will free up more land for younger farmers as there is land being left idle. He said with the lpt it is only right to tax farmland.

grazeaway

Sam Kade wrote: »

I just heard on the news where some councillor Tom Barry is proposing a €10/acre land tax :rolleyes: his excuse is that it will free up more land for younger farmers as there is land being left idle. He said with the lpt it is only right to tax farmland.

and what services are the councillers proposing they will provide in return??????

they dont even provide anything for the LPT, i doubt they'll come to trim the hedges or fix the storm drains

Dampintheattic

grazeaway wrote: »

and what services are the councillers proposing they will provide in return??????

they dont even provide anything for the LPT, i doubt they'll come to trim the hedges or fix the storm drains

99% of councils, and councillors in this country, should be culled.
City of Manchester, has a population equivalent to the whole of the ROI
Guess how many councillors and MP's represent that city, compared to this country??

redzerologhlen

Sam Kade wrote: »

I just heard on the news where some councillor Tom Barry is proposing a €10/acre land tax :rolleyes: his excuse is that it will free up more land for younger farmers as there is land being left idle. He said with the lpt it is only right to tax farmland.

It was only a matter of time before some dip**** proposed it

pakalasa

redzerologhlen wrote: »

It was only a matter of time before some dip**** proposed it

And you with a winterage in the Burren. :rolleyes:

Conmaicne Mara

Sam Kade wrote: »

I just heard on the news where some councillor Tom Barry is proposing a €10/acre land tax :rolleyes: his excuse is that it will free up more land for younger farmers as there is land being left idle. He said with the lpt it is only right to tax farmland.

Who is this Tom Barry, what party, urban or rural?

Markcheese

There are lots of reasons to encourage younger more productive farmers onto the land.... And lots of sensible ways to do it .... This ain't one ..
Urban councillor flying a kite !! And being a sh*te ,

Sam Kade

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Who is this Tom Barry, what party, urban or rural?

Some fg councillor in mallow.

mf240

pakalasa wrote: »

And you with a winterage in the Burren. :rolleyes:

I'd did laugh sorry redzer.

Sam Kade

Just heard it again he's a td and is proposing that farmers not actively farming their land should have to pay the tax. No doubt they will try to use it as a gateway to tax all farmland.

Muckit

Page 12 of today's indo has it all if anyone interested , along with a small articel on the consequences of the CAP proposals

yellow50HX

more populos BS. its like enda trying to wind up the senad to make himself look good. while seanad has become usless in recent years rather then dumping it it should be reformed to be a more useful instution. we're a small country of about 4.5million people.

It would make far more sense to reduce the number of TD and amalamate more constiitures. Likewise with the corpos and countty coucils. this LPT thing is just and excuse to prop up the local councils rathe then force them into doing some proper reforms and givng vale.

this rubbish of getting rid of the seand to reduce the cost of govermen is merly a smoke screen. FG control most of the councils in the country so it's not in their intrest to reduce the jobs for the boys. enda and his cronies are not much better then the FF/PD shower that were there before them. They have not problem looking out for their own when it suits them.

http://thestory.ie/2011/12/04/enda-kenny-overruled-two-ministers-to-give-e35000-pay-rise/

periodictable

Have to agree with him.
If you have an asset and are not using it productively, then you should not receive any headage or farm payments.
I know a lad with 70 acres of land on which he keeps 10 cows and a bull. He's young, has no medical condition that prevents him from physically working, has never bothered building a slatted shed, seems to spend 50% of his time cutting his lawn and weeding the flowerbeds, and he draws the dole.
His 5 kids get free college education and all the family have medical cards.
Something very wrong with this set up.

Sam Kade

periodictable wrote: »

Have to agree with him.
If you have an asset and are not using it productively, then you should not receive any headage or farm payments.
I know a lad with 70 acres of land on which he keeps 10 cows and a bull. He's young, has no medical condition that prevents him from physically working, has never bothered building a slatted shed, seems to spend 50% of his time cutting his lawn and weeding the flowerbeds, and he draws the dole.
His 5 kids get free college education and all the family have medical cards.
Something very wrong with this set up.

You must be very friendly with him to know all that information about him

redzerologhlen

mf240 wrote: »

I'd did laugh sorry redzer.

I wouldn't blame you, 300 acres here....would go a long way on keeping some scrounger on the dole for a year

paddysdream

How does the good man propose to ascertain which land is productive or otherwise?
Thats a very subjective question taking into consideration land quality,system of farming ,individual family circumstances etc etc.

Firmly believe that farming should be taxed ONLY on profits and not on a notional land valuation.
Who here remembers the attempt to introduce a land tax in the late 1980s?As far as I recall it ran for a year or two and was then abolished after a change of government.

Looking at the newspaper article it seems like a gobsh**e backbencher trying to stir up a few free column inches without first engaging brain.Anyone who has met the typical backbencher (government or opposition)would be well aware of the level of intelligence displayed by these people.Look around and think about your local councillors- would you go into business with any of them?In fact would risk lending them a fiver?

Good loser

I would be in favour of it. At €10 per acre for good/average land. The bad land could be adjusted - so 300 acres of winterage might equal 30 average.

It would be an offset against income tax, as rates are on commercial properties.

All business pays rates on commercial property.

€10 per acre wouldn't break anybody.

Restricting it to unused land is not realistic.

bob charles

Good loser wrote: »

I would be in favour of it. At €10 per acre for good/average land. The bad land could be adjusted - so 300 acres of winterage might equal 30 average.

It would be an offset against income tax, as rates are on commercial properties.

All business pays rates on commercial property.

€10 per acre wouldn't break anybody.

Restricting it to unused land is not realistic.

would the landlord or the tenant pay on rented ground or would the tax just shove up the rent:rolleyes:

Good loser

bob charles wrote: »

would the landlord or the tenant pay on rented ground or would the tax just shove up the rent:rolleyes:

Occupier would be liable. As commercial tenants are for rates. The tenant would/should pay a lower rent as a consequence as supply and demand, and therefore price (total) paid, should remain the same. The burden effectively comes on the land owner.

red bull

Ah boys get a life, we have enough stealth taxes

Damo810

Next they will try and tax us for the ****e from the cows...Or didn't they try that already :rolleyes:

iverjohnston

In their haste to tax the self employed and landowners, and thus increase their popularity with the "unwaged", Labour and various independent politicians need to consider a few points.
If the property assets by which you earn your taxed income are also to be taxed, can we see this applied universally, across the board?
Perhaps the good TD would like to have Dail Eireann valued and then pay a tax on its value, divided by total staff employed in the building? Would Joe Duffy like to hazard a guess at the current value of Montrose, and pay accordingly? The Dept. of Social Welfare own lots of property across the State, should not those who attain their income from such premises, staff and recipients, pay tax based on the property value? Now it could be argued that the TD does not actually hold deeds for the Dail buildings, but for many farmers the actual ownership of their land is also as surreal, either they inherited and will never sell, or the bank hold the deeds.

yellow50HX

iverjohnston wrote: »

In their haste to tax the self employed and landowners, and thus increase their popularity with the "unwaged", Labour and various independent politicians need to consider a few points.
If the property assets by which you earn your taxed income are also to be taxed, can we see this applied universally, across the board?
Perhaps the good TD would like to have Dail Eireann valued and then pay a tax on its value, divided by total staff employed in the building? Would Joe Duffy like to hazard a guess at the current value of Montrose, and pay accordingly? The Dept. of Social Welfare own lots of property across the State, should not those who attain their income from such premises, staff and recipients, pay tax based on the property value? Now it could be argued that the TD does not actually hold deeds for the Dail buildings, but for many farmers the actual ownership of their land is also as surreal, either they inherited and will never sell, or the bank hold the deeds.

like most politicans its a case i do what i say not what i do. most of these TD's and local concillers are just jockeying for position, the next local elections arent too far away and the next general election is about 2-3 years away so they need to be seen to be doing some work. ones like mr barry that are on thier 1st stint as a td need to get re-elected so that they can then ride the pension gravy rain for the rest of their lifes. its like brand managment having your name in the news for items that can be spun in a positive manner to appel to the majority of voters is the key for re-election. when we are looking at the ballot papers most people will think to what has this person done and more high profile items the better.

taxing farm land like a commerical property could be justified if the money raised was actually used to impove the land it was taken from like mainatence of the hedgerows on the road (these are cunnertly done the farmer) maintenace of water drains into and out the land, dregdging and maintence of streams and river bed, etc. as it is any land tax would just be put into the big tax pot to boost the lienster house pension fund like the LPT and motor tax.

Tipp Man

Good loser wrote: »

I would be in favour of it. At €10 per acre for good/average land. The bad land could be adjusted - so 300 acres of winterage might equal 30 average.

It would be an offset against income tax, as rates are on commercial properties.

All business pays rates on commercial property.

€10 per acre wouldn't break anybody.

Restricting it to unused land is not realistic.

commerical rates are meant to cover items such as footpaths, street cleaning, street lighting, sewage etc etc

What exactly will farmers get for the rates they would pay??

mf240

Tipp Man wrote: »

commerical rates are meant to cover items such as footpaths, street cleaning, street lighting, sewage etc etc

What exactly will farmers get for the rates they would pay??

Public footpaths for tourists probably.

Sam Kade

Good loser wrote: »

I would be in favour of it. At €10 per acre for good/average land. The bad land could be adjusted - so 300 acres of winterage might equal 30 average.

It would be an offset against income tax, as rates are on commercial properties.

All business pays rates on commercial property.

€10 per acre wouldn't break anybody.

Restricting it to unused land is not realistic.

This reminds me of the household charge it's only 2 euro a week :rolleyes:

nashmach

Mr Barry has a large farm himself from what I understand, perhaps if he wants to tax land he should take a voluntary cut in his own salary.:rolleyes:

Tipp Man

mf240 wrote: »

Public footpaths for tourists probably.

That's the next thing that's on the agenda - plenty of murmors about it already

They'll be trying to turn it into the UK with their ridiculous paths and walkways

grazeaway

nashmach wrote: »

Mr Barry has a large farm himself from what I understand, perhaps if he wants to tax land he should take a voluntary cut in his own salary.:rolleyes:

that'll never happen. if they take a cut in salary they'll only add it on in expense's or other perks. its amazign to think that they only added in offical clocking in and out of the dail and vouched expenses very recently and even then it dosent stop them from fleshing out the expenses. If they had to provide recipts and justify them the way we in the real world had to they would be in for a big shock.

Dont be daft

In the last few weeks we've seen
- A land tax
- A "Funny Friday" bill trying to establish Compulsory Public Right of Ways
- A call for the dye to be left out of Green diesel and a rebate system brought in (, Yeah, I know:rolleyes:)
How people come up with this crap is beyond me. Even more worrying is the fact that the Irish farmer seems a fair target in all this.

This in the same year that farmers have made the headlines for dramatically reduced profits (if he had any to start with), a countrywide cut in subsidies and a serious issue of suicides.

It begs the question, what the f*ck are they going to come out with when we have a few good years.

Conmaicne Mara

http://www.thejournal.ie/tom-barry-apologises-for-forcing-aine-collins-to-sit-on-his-lap-988277-Jul2013/?utm_source=facebook_short

hurling_lad

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/tom-barry-apologises-for-forcing-aine-collins-to-sit-on-his-lap-988277-Jul2013/?utm_source=facebook_short

Not much to say about that other than what an eejit.

As for the land tax proposal, it probably isn't the right way of going about it, but something needs to be done about land mobility in this country.

On my road (all dry land) there used to be five dairy farms and two cattle/cereals farms but now there is only one dairy farm and one cattle farm with the others all rented out, mostly on short or informal leases. The incentive to hold on to land for SFP purposes is leading to massive underutilisation of land and the country is missing out on a great opportunity to increase food production as a result, not to mention the fact that there are very limited opportunities for talented young farmers with small land blocks.