What to do with the Empties ?

AlekSmart

Have we got evidence of a definitive strategy regarding empty property in Ireland ?

I'm referring to all forms of property,from the Ghost Residential Estate to the equally spectral Retail Park.

As I watch the resurgence of construction activity in Sandyford's Beacon Quarter I'm struggling to come up with an answer as to where the new owners/tenants are going to be found to occupy (and pay for) the completed units.

Equally,close to my own home,the tumbleweed blows across the semi-derelict Commercial Developments at the Airton Rd/Greenhills Road junction (Formerly Packard Electric and Gallagher Tobacco).

In some cases the developments were structurally complete but have lain empty for years,in other cases they are skeletal and decaying.

With so much of the Political huffin n puffin being centred on getting more new-stuff built,I'm kinda interested in how we are going to entice enough bodies (commercial or otherwise) to fill the existing spaces ?

Is this a conundrum,or am I missing something ?

thebman

It isn't on the political radar at the moment so there is no problem... as far as the government is concerned.

They are happy leaving people thinking people/business will move in shortly since we are on the edge of recovery...

johnnyskeleton

AlekSmart wrote: »

Have we got evidence of a definitive strategy regarding empty property in Ireland ?

Not officially. NAMA are slowly selling some property but have to hope no one notices. BOSI, UB and other non-NAMA banks are selling them as fast as they can.

There's an interesting thread on this issue here:

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29415

To be honest, I don't believe that NAMA or the government should decide to demolish these houses - they should be sold for whatever the market will bear (even if it is only €1) and the new owners can decide what to do with them.

As I watch the resurgence of construction activity in Sandyford's Beacon Quarter I'm struggling to come up with an answer as to where the new owners/tenants are going to be found to occupy (and pay for) the completed units.

Good news of sorts I suppose. There is still a market in Dublin anyway for apartments that meet the following criteria:
1) well located;
2) finished to a habitable standard;
3) reasonably priced.

You can buy a well located apartment but it will probably be of a very poor build quality, and if not then it will be asking an outrageous price. You can get a good quality cheap apartment but it will be miles from anywhere you want to be etc.

With so much of the Political huffin n puffin being centred on getting more new-stuff built,I'm kinda interested in how we are going to entice enough bodies (commercial or otherwise) to fill the existing spaces ?

Is this a conundrum,or am I missing something ?

Reduced rents. It is better to have a start up in your premises paying a nominal rent and taking care of the utilities, maintenance, security, rates etc than having it empty and incurring these costs, plus, after a year or two you can increase the rent to market levels.

But NAMA won't do this because of one or more of the following issues:
1) inability to micro-manage properties;
2) lack of co-operation from the developers who won't rent for less than its worth;
3) general government policy of keeping rents artificially high;
4) public sector distrust of start up firms getting a property "for a steal";
5) incompetence.

gaius c

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

To be honest, I don't believe that NAMA or the government should decide to demolish these houses - they should be sold for whatever the market will bear (even if it is only €1) and the new owners can decide what to do with them.

Big time. If people want to live in these places and endure the commutes, then prices should be reduced to the level at which people will consider buying them. It will reduce pressure on city stock for starters.

Scortho

gaius c wrote: »

Big time. If people want to live in these places and endure the commutes, then prices should be reduced to the level at which people will consider buying them. It will reduce pressure on city stock for starters.

I think a semi completed housing estate in Carlow (think it was Tullow sold last year for a couple of hundred grand. Better doing that than demolishing them.
They also had no effect on the local housing price, which the government is so worried about falling more, because they weren't completed and were being sold in one unit. Not to many individuals in Carlow buying a Hosue would be willing to buy a load of them these days out of fear.

Demolision is favoured by Nama as it protects completed projects.
As a successful developer family friend said back in 2009 when he sold their last developed estate, there was never a house built that couldnt be sold.
You just had to be realistic on the price.

AlekSmart

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

.

You can buy a well located apartment but it will probably be of a very poor build quality, and if not then it will be asking an outrageous price. You can get a good quality cheap apartment but it will be miles from anywhere you want to be etc.

But NAMA won't do this because of one or more of the following issues:
1) inability to micro-manage properties;
2) lack of co-operation from the developers who won't rent for less than its worth;
3) general government policy of keeping rents artificially high;
4) public sector distrust of start up firms getting a property "for a steal";
5) incompetence.

It's perhaps a tad uncool,but the point about the quality of design & build of Irish Apartment stock is very relevant with the much vilified Mick (TD) Wallace's developments widely praised for being far more sensibly proportioned and designed with real-live people instead of the laptop-spec tenants preferred by the greater Irish developer genus.

As for the NAMA question,I'd go for 1,3 and 5 as a quick pick here.

I feel that we,as a people,really are in a pickle here as the "connections" are still being herded along within the NAMA flock in the hope of reaching some oul mart where enough gillies are gathered to get a bidding war going.

gaius c

Scortho wrote: »

I think a semi completed housing estate in Carlow (think it was Tullow sold last year for a couple of hundred grand. Better doing that than demolishing them.
They also had no effect on the local housing price, which the government is so worried about falling more, because they weren't completed and were being sold in one unit. Not to many individuals in Carlow buying a Hosue would be willing to buy a load of them these days out of fear.

Demolision is favoured by Nama as it protects completed projects.
As a successful developer family friend said back in 2009 when he sold their last developed estate, there was never a house built that couldnt be sold.
You just had to be realistic on the price.

Any idea what the status of that development is now?
Flogging assets in a firesale and having a competent, solvent businessman do something with them is how the insolvency process should work, not demolishing or withholding them and telling folk "buy from me...or else".

buyer95

Be Grand.

Scortho

gaius c wrote: »

Any idea what the status of that development is now?
Flogging assets in a firesale and having a competent, solvent businessman do something with them is how the insolvency process should work, not demolishing or withholding them and telling folk "buy from me...or else".

Nope!:( I can't remember the name of it, just that there was 18 or so houses completed and planning permission for 50 or so more. Think it was outside tullow in Carlow.

Scortho

Somehow managed to find it!:) it was originally meant to be a retirement village at 200k a pop.
If it was a Nama sale, as Namawinelake believes, then it was certainly a lot cheaper than demolishing and returning to agricultural land where it might sell for 140k.

http://blogs.myhome.ie/2012/07/11/unfinished-carlow-estate-sells-for-e640k/

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/63-houses-sold-for-just-649000-but-10000-per-unit-was-four-times-the-asking-price-26874923.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/co-carlow-ghost-estate-sells-for-640-000-1.534615


http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/07/12/was-the-glendale-estate-sold-for-e10000-a-house-a-nama-sale/

_Kaiser_

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Good news of sorts I suppose. There is still a market in Dublin anyway for apartments that meet the following criteria:
1) well located;
2) finished to a habitable standard;
3) reasonably priced.

Well IMO (living/working in this area myself) these apartments don't fit the first one anyway.

There is feck all in the immediate vicinity save for a over-priced Dunnes, some celtic tiger era furniture shops and a LUAS line.. the place is in/right next to an industrial estate/business park and the traffic is chronic at rush hour.

Habitable standard: If they're finished to the same standard as so many properties built in the good ole days I'd question that one too.