Committee recommends optional crested school uniforms

Radiosonde

From RTE

A new report from an Oireachtas committee has recommended that pupils should not be obliged to wear crested uniforms and that schools should end the use of workbooks.
The Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Social Protection has been examining the cost of education in Ireland and is recommending that students should not be forced to wear expensive crested uniforms.
It also recommends that schools end the use of workbooks which cannot be reused, and suggests that voluntary contributions should be greatly discouraged, if not completely prohibited.
The committee is also calling for the introduction of a universal schoolbook rental scheme.
The recommendations, which will be published on Tuesday have been welcomed by the National Parents Council.

A very welcome move IMO. Quite aside from the cost issue, I hated school uniforms, they were one of the most knob-endy things about school.

The colours for starters "hmm, let's go with grey, that's a lovely colour that stresses our emphasis on boredom and repression of self-expression. And how about wool jumpers with crew necks, the kind popular with men in their 60s, that will go down well with today's young people. Oh! Oh! Slacks, grey slacks, we must have grey slacks!"

And having unique crests? Come on. You are a little school in Ireland, not a football team or the Knights Templar. You do not need a fecking crest.

Anyone against this move?

Amirani

Good to hear, on both counts.

TimeToShine

It'll be years before anything actually happens regardless.

kneemos

Tatoo their chests instead.

Iwasfrozen

Radiosonde wrote: »

Anyone against this move?

Yes, me. Uniforms are economic equaliser in school. Stops children banging onto their parents about the newest lighty up runners.

michael999999

Another report, Micheal Martin will be proud!

xzanti

Are they not just making the Crest optional.. i.e you still have to wear the school uniform.. just you have the option to buy a cheaper generic version of it from the likes of Mr. Price or somewhere?

IvySlayer

I agree in principle with having school uniforms. My friend in England went to a secondary school and you had options, brown or black shoes, black trousers but you could choose whether to wear a jumper, shirt or the school jacket (blazer). I would of preferred the choices.

Radiosonde

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, me. Uniforms are economic equaliser in school. Stops children banging onto their parents about the newest lighty up runners.

Tbh probably won't mean the end of uniforms, just ones with crests. Schools say "our uniform looks like this" and parents just go buy a generic thing out of Tesco's, not "our uniform looks like this, has the school crest, and can be bought from two shops in the town, one of which is owned by the vice-principal's wife."

The stuff about ending voluntary donations would probably be an even greater leveller.

eviltwin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, me. Uniforms are economic equaliser in school. Stops children banging onto their parents about the newest lighty up runners.

But when you can buy multiple pairs of those runners for the cost of the uniform it kinda defeats the purpose.

I think its a good idea. I paid nearly 350 for my teens school uniform last year. I'd rather keep that money and spend it on clothes instead of having to hand over 60 quid for a piece of crap jumper that falls to bits after a year.

ETA I think the idea of uniforms is a good one but a generic one. Not the one that can only be bought in one shop that can pretty much charge what it likes

Smidge

xzanti wrote: »

Are they not just making the Crest optional.. i.e you still have to wear the school uniform.. just you have the option to buy a cheaper generic version of it from the likes of Mr. Price or somewhere?

I think this is case and very welcome imo.
Both our primary and secondary have not only crested uniforms but crested, branded school tracksuits(which are only worn one day a week on P.E day and NOT allowed any other day).

Major extravagance in today's economic imo

BTW I agree with a school uniform but it should be a generic, affordable one ie jumper and trousers/skirt can be bought in Dunnes etc

whiteandlight

I had a pinafore, shirt and cardigan/jumper for all school years (90s onwards). I loved it, teenage years are tough enough, the uniform was just easy. No stress about clothes/brands/shoes. Also pinafores lasted 5-6 years (bought big). Nothing else would have worn as well!

wmpdd3

I work where we sell the generic uniforms and noone will send a primary school child in in them. They all comment on how cheap it is for a wool mix sweater but say they couldn't risk their kids getting singled out.

My kids aren't in school yet, but I said mine would be going in generic uniforms and I am always told, no you won't when the time comes you will buy the one from the uniform provider at 6 times the price.

At the moment it the tracksuit, polo and jumper thats crested and if the school uses a kilt, you cant buy a cheap one.

Radiosonde

wmpdd3 wrote: »

At the moment it the tracksuit, polo and jumper thats crested and if the school uses a kilt, you cant buy a cheap one.

Sorry, a kilt? There are schools that use kilts? What for?

FoxT

Schools should have a dress code, just like many workplaces do. School uniforms have always stuck in my craw, both as a student, and as a parent.School is stressful enough for young people without burdening them further with unnecessary rules & regulations.

I also agree that workbooks should be done away with - they are very expensive and cannot be reused.

-FoxT

jill_valentine

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, me. Uniforms are economic equaliser in school. Stops children banging onto their parents about the newest lighty up runners.

In theory. In reality, because they're customised for the school crest, it means that there's a monopoly on them, there's always only about one shop in the local town where you can get them. They cost more than they're worth and the quality is horrible - the jumpers for my old school were expensive, had to be ordered in, and were made of a fine and luxurious nylon blend that seemed to just dissolve after about two months.

Uniforms themselves are fine concept, IMHO, so long as there's some competition in them, so long as they're generic. As it is, that little crest diminishes any benefit in that regard by bumping up the price.

Augmerson

Tbh our family was not well off and if we had to wear clothes other than a uniform we couldn't have afforded it. One plain uniform for every school in the country, a basic white shirt, black jumper, grey pants scheme would work fine.

jill_valentine

Radiosonde wrote: »

Sorry, a kilt? There are schools that use kilts? What for?

It's the style of skirt the girls have to wear. It's a length of material that wraps around and buckles, rather than a single skirt of fabric. It's ideally designed so that any random lad can rip it off in a single Buck's Fizz flourish for a laugh at any point during the day.

It's about an inch thick, forged of some kind of bottle green and maroon brillo pad. I am fairly sure the one I went to school with could withstand a nuclear war.

Amirani

I never bought or wore a school jumper when I was in school. I wore the black trousers, white shirt, black shoes (all could be used outside school) and the school tie. School jumpers are horrible looking itchy yokes anyway.

Thoie

Our uniforms were available in some local shops, but also in Dunnes back in the day. We had crests, but you bought one once at the beginning (for about 50p iirc), and then you sewed it onto whatever jumper you had bought. At that point my mother used do the sewing. I'm no good at sewing, but even I could manage to sew a crest onto something once a year.

The only thing I hated about the school uniform was one teacher who used give me hassle when my chest grew too big for the school style shirts, and I had to switch to white blouses. She was a crawling bitch anyway, so it wasn't a big deal.

mitosis

Thoie wrote: »

The only thing I hated about the school uniform was one teacher who used give me hassle when my chest grew too big for the school style shirts, and I had to switch to white blouses. She was a crawling bitch anyway, so it wasn't a big deal.

I imagine the other boys gave you a hard time too, though...

daithi1970

the thing that really annoys me is the school uniforms with non-standard coloured jumpers,,there's few schools in Galway who really take the pi$$ in this regard..our local school has 2 different coloured jumpers- 1for the junior cycle and one for the senior (5th and 6th yr) cycle....the mind boggles..

daithi

PinkLemonade

eviltwin wrote: »

But when you can buy multiple pairs of those runners for the cost of the uniform it kinda defeats the purpose.

I think its a good idea. I paid nearly 350 for my teens school uniform last year. I'd rather keep that money and spend it on clothes instead of having to hand over 60 quid for a piece of crap jumper that falls to bits after a year.

ETA I think the idea of uniforms is a good one but a generic one. Not the one that can only be bought in one shop that can pretty much charge what it likes

Do you mind me asking exactly what that 350 was spent on? I'm trying to break it down

eviltwin

PinkLemonade wrote: »

Do you mind me asking exactly what that 350 was spent on? I'm trying to break it down

Jumper 60 quid

Skirt 50

Coat 70

Shirts worked out about 20 euros

PE uniform and runners about 70/80

School shoes, socks and tie made up the rest

StewartGriffin

xzanti wrote: »

Are they not just making the Crest optional.. i.e you still have to wear the school uniform.. just you have the option to buy a cheaper generic version of it from the likes of Mr. Price or somewhere?

Exactly. Hopefully this will end the way schools demand you buy x-colour jumper, but with the school crest, for 60 euro (and even specify a certain shop in town, usually owned by a rotary club mate of the principle)

Phoebas

Nothing wrong with school uniforms. The generic shirts, skirts, trousers, pinafores, cardigans etc are cheap as chips and make it really easy to dress kids for school.
I don't see why they can't keep the crests either. They do promote the school identity. But why can't the schools just get them produced by the thousand and give them to parents to stitch on to the cardigans themselves. They could charge a fiver from them and raise a few quid for the school.

PinkLemonade

eviltwin wrote: »

Jumper 60 quid

Skirt 50

Coat 70

Shirts worked out about 20 euros

PE uniform and runners about 70/80

School shoes, socks and tie made up the rest

That isn't that bad to be fair, the coat seems steep but how much do you really save going generic?

Feathers

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, me. Uniforms are economic equaliser in school. Stops children banging onto their parents about the newest lighty up runners.

Why not just ban clothes with obvious logos?

Or have a uniform, but one that's actual comfortable — jeans, polo shirt, jumper? Would be a lot cheaper than what they enforce at the moment, so even less of an economic burden. & would be clothes kids could wear outside of school & they'd be comfortable.

HurtLocker

I always hated wearing a school uniform. Used to be a couple of creepy teachers who would stand in the corridor and point at your waist if you didn't have your shirt tucked in. They were basically a reason to give out to students and give the vice principal something to do with his time. You would get a detention if you forgot your tie or wore your own shoes without a note. They had us buying a school jumper for €50 and a jacket/coat for €60. They banned wearing your own jacket/coat/hoodie so you had to fork out an extra €60 for a jacket that had no hood. Irish weather doesn't suit hoodless jackets. *shivers*

Should be made optional at the very least. I always hated them. Itchy yokes. Never again.

eviltwin

PinkLemonade wrote: »

That isn't that bad to be fair, the coat seems steep but how much do you really save going generic?

Quite a bit depending on where you shop. I was up North recently and saw jumpers for less than 15 euros. The quality was much the same too.

I think people sometimes assume that the crested clothes are somehow better quality than their generic counterparts and perhaps some are but in our school the quality is rubbish.

I don't mind paying for something if I'm getting value for money.

blindsider

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, me. Uniforms are economic equaliser in school. Stops children banging onto their parents about the newest lighty up runners.

Do schools include footwear in the uniform? Our school doesn't, nor any other I can think of.

I broached the subject a few yrs ago, and was told "You can't tell them what shoes to wear, that'd be too strict."

As others have said, why should a jumper with a crest cost 200% more than a better quality 'un-crested' jumper? Qui bono? Not the parents anyway!

PinkLemonade

eviltwin wrote: »

Quite a bit depending on where you shop. I was up North recently and saw jumpers for less than 15 euros. The quality was much the same too.

I think people sometimes assume that the crested clothes are somehow better quality than their generic counterparts and perhaps some are but in our school the quality is rubbish.

I don't mind paying for something if I'm getting value for money.

Could you really get a decent jumper for a secondary school student for that, natural fibers and all that? I do think the crested stuff is over priced but I dont think people compare the price of the uniform to what you'd be paying if there was no uniform. If you think how much this stuff is worn?

eviltwin

PinkLemonade wrote: »

Could you really get a decent jumper for a secondary school student for that, natural fibers and all that? I do think the crested stuff is over priced but I dont think people compare the price of the uniform to what you'd be paying if there was no uniform. If you think how much this stuff is worn?

The one they are wearing now isn't natural fibers. I think most parents are happy with the idea of a uniform, its just being unable to shop around and get one that suits your budget and that gives you value for money that is the problem. I can only buy the uniform in one shop in the entire country and have to pay well over the odds for it and all because of a tiny little emblem.

Feathers

PinkLemonade wrote: »

I do think the crested stuff is over priced but I dont think people compare the price of the uniform to what you'd be paying if there was no uniform. If you think how much this stuff is worn?

6 t-shirts, two pairs of jeans & a hoodie or two? That could be worn after school and at the weekends too?

Notorious97

I hated my uniform, but i can see why for a parent they are better than having kids driving them mad wanting the latest labels etc in school

The crest issue i dont get, my school used to give us the crest to stitch onto our uniforms, looked fine. Cost nothing really.

SpaceTime

I actually got sent home for wearing grey trousers that were slightly off the uniform colour.

The official ones were made out of some kind of acrylic yet they were some ridiculous price.

We were a bit broke that month so basically I had to put up with bring ridiculed by the principal and various teachers about it for the whole time.

they sent notes home, I got sent home, singled out, shouted at etc etc

What it had to do with education I will never know. it just seemed like extreme bullying to me.

We also had white shirts and if your wore anything visible through them like a t shirt you got shouted at and detention!

This was in the 90s and 00s!

Hated school! Really didn't enjoy one minute of it but loved university.

wmpdd3

My secondary school uniform cost £170 in 1992. I was reminded of this many times when I was caught ducking off.

The jumper was lambswool and the skirt was a wool mix. the shirt was the oddest colour possible and the tie was about £10.

I had one uniform for 5 years.

Noreen1

blindsider wrote: »

Do schools include footwear in the uniform? Our school doesn't, nor any other I can think of.

I broached the subject a few yrs ago, and was told "You can't tell them what shoes to wear, that'd be too strict."

As others have said, why should a jumper with a crest cost 200% more than a better quality 'un-crested' jumper? Qui bono? Not the parents anyway!

Yes, ours does.

Plain black closed shoes - no other colour, even on the soles.
There was an attempt to bring in black leather shoes, available only from the school, a few years ago.
Thankfully, they eventually decided to allow parents to decide what footwear their children should wear, just as long as it's plain black.
Oh, and the socks have to be plain black, too!

This year, they're changing the school jackets.
I've got two daughters, one asthmatic, one prone to tonsillitis.
I managed to find a company who would produce rain and windproof jackets, and embroider school crests on them last year, because the quality of the school jackets wasn't suitable.They look identical to the school jackets, the only difference being, they keep my kids warm and dry.
Needless to say, I will not be "upgrading" to the new jackets!

The move to discourage the use of workbooks is to be welcomed.
I've wasted a fortune over the years, having to either buy the workbook and book as a set, when I already had a perfectly serviceable textbook from an older child - or buying workbooks that were never used! :mad:

Now, if we could just get the publishers to stop issuing "revised" editions of the same books, (the revision mainly being moving a few chapters around!). every 2-3 years, hard-pressed parents might end up being "fleeced" a bit less!

Unfortunately, I can't see these recommendations being taken up by the schools, unless they're made mandatory.
The truth is, P.E uniforms, school jackets, etc. are sometimes used as a source of extra income for schools - and that's not going to change with the reduction in funding currently being experienced by the schools.

Gatling

This can't come quick enough my eldest is starting big school in September we've a choice pinafore and jumper and purchase an iron on /sew on crest or school tracksuit at 70e a go ,

jill_valentine

I remember having to trace everything from our workbooks into our copies, so they could be reused. But then the bookshop where everybody bought and resold their books wouldn't take them anyway, so it was just a pain in the arse for no reason.

Gatling

jill_valentine wrote: »

I remember having to trace everything from our workbooks into our copies, so they could be reused. But then the bookshop where everybody bought and resold their books wouldn't take them anyway, so it was just a pain in the arse for no reason.

E-readers is the perfect solution to the book problem ,

And not poxy iPads with Facebook access

shruikan2553

My school had these shirts which were a unique shade of grey and only sold by 1 shop in town for about 16 euro each I think. We all needed the uniforms to look "smart". Honestly if you want to have us looking smart have everyone wearing suits. Would look better and be cheaper.

blindsider

One of the advantages of being a DEIS school is that the Principal is in no position to impose costly school uniforms.

Thankfully, ours is quite reasonable - even if (s)he does need the odd reminder now and then....:)

Musefan

Our school uniform was completely over-priced.

You had to have a crested jumper (65), specific coloured shirts (pink-25 each) that you couldn't buy anywhere else but the uniform supplier, wine socks (10 a pack), wine skirt which you couldn't get anywhere else (55), wine fleece for cold days as you couldn't bring your own (45), wine jacket as you couldn't bring your own rain jacket (55), o'neill's brand tracksuit too, which they changed twice during my time there, can't remember the price but it was extortionate. You couldn't choose your own shoes, there were two options from local shops, both 50 euro each. I suppose the pupils looked well, but coming from a primary school where you could buy a plain navy jumper and get the crest off the school to sew on, it was a bit of a shock.

whiteandlight

My schools getting the 'poxy' iPads for first years next year. I've taken advantage and am writing my own textbook/workbook for them. It is all phrased so the work can be done in copies and best of all allows me to edit chapters/change things that don't work week on week and yearly. Sick of books/workbooks that are expensive and never done exactly the way you want. No more photocopying too, all worksheets can be accessed on the iPads. Can't wait.
Worked out if a student in leaving cert music was to buy all the books/scores they needed it would cost in excess of €110. Still researching but so far I'm down to €2u7 for two scores that are copyrighted. Book I'll write and two scores are available out of copyright.

anncoates

Not against school uniforms generally but school uniform crested jumpers are one of the biggest scams going.

Sickened me having to shell out for it