Question on contactor daily rate, what's a fair rate?

dannny1

Hi,

I am currently at the end of my first contract. I have been developing mainly in ASP.NET MVC, Entity Framework, Linq, some newer stuff like knockout and SignalR, SQL Server, and all the usual web stuff.

I was hired in quite a junior role, but ended up re-writing an entire application which is used broadly in the company.

My daily rate was 220, they offered me an extension and I said I would need an increase. Now they say an extra 20 a day, and the recruitment agency I work for are trying to get something on their end.

As this is my first contract I want to know from more experienced developers in the same areas what they think a fair daily rate would be for this kind of work.

The company have been impressed with the quality of my work, hence the extension, and I know myself that I have came a long way in regards TSQL, C# and asp.net, and also generally as a programmer, implementing design patters, documentation etc. You get the picture.

So, any ideas? Is what they are offering ok or on the low side? I feel it's a little low, but would like another opinion.

Thanks

John_Mc

dannny1 wrote: »

Hi,

I am currently at the end of my first contract. I have been developing mainly in ASP.NET MVC, Entity Framework, Linq, some newer stuff like knockout and SignalR, SQL Server, and all the usual web stuff.

I was hired in quite a junior role, but ended up re-writing an entire application which is used broadly in the company.

My daily rate was 220, they offered me an extension and I said I would need an increase. Now they say an extra 20 a day, and the recruitment agency I work for are trying to get something on their end.

As this is my first contract I want to know from more experienced developers in the same areas what they think a fair daily rate would be for this kind of work.

The company have been impressed with the quality of my work, hence the extension, and I know myself that I have came a long way in regards TSQL, C# and asp.net, and also generally as a programmer, implementing design patters, documentation etc. You get the picture.

So, any ideas? Is what they are offering ok or on the low side? I feel it's a little low, but would like another opinion.

Thanks

How many years were you full time before this contract? It depends on your experience but 350-450 a day for someone who can use those technologies to a professional high quality standard.

You'd also need to be good at design, documentation, planning and everything else that goes with the job at a senior developer level.

€220 is very low. There's very little chance of them replacing you with an experienced contractor on that rate and they know it.

dannny1

John_Mc wrote: »

How many years were you full time before this contract? It depends on your experience but 350-450 a day for someone who can use those technologies to a professional high quality standard.

You'd also need to be good at design, documentation, planning and everything else that goes with the job at a senior developer level.

€220 is very low. There's very little chance of them replacing you with an experienced contractor on that rate and they know it.

Hi John, thanks for your reply. I was working full time for three years before I started the contract. From the off I have been using the technologies above, apart from the newer stuff like knockout or signalr. I think I'm at a pretty high standard. In my first position I worked on an application with a very senior, very talented programmer. I think what I'm writing now would be comparable to his work, with a few flashes of brilliance here and there from him that I can remember being the exception . But I'm definitely at the advanced end of MVC with n-tier, dependency injection/IOC, repository/service layers etc.

As far as planning and documentation go, the company I am at now are terrible, and I have been pushing with another to improve this. I document and use source control and plan as much as I can, even more with this crowd to sort of prove how important I think it is.

It's hard for me to know exactly where I am, but I think I'm at higher level than the rate they're offering anyway. Thanks again for the input, always good to get a more experienced view. I 'm just not sure how to handle it if they flat refuse more than that.

In your experience, if you don't mind another question, how likely is is that the recruitment agency will take a cut on their end?

John_Mc

dannny1 wrote: »

Hi John, thanks for your reply. I was working full time for three years before I started the contract. From the off I have been using the technologies above, apart from the newer stuff like knockout or signalr. I think I'm at a pretty high standard. In my first position I worked on an application with a very senior, very talented programmer. I think what I'm writing now would be comparable to his work, with a few flashes of brilliance here and there from him that I can remember being the exception . But I'm definitely at the advanced end of MVC with n-tier, dependency injection/IOC, repository/service layers etc.

As far as planning and documentation go, the company I am at now are terrible, and I have been pushing with another to improve this. I document and use source control and plan as much as I can, even more with this crowd to sort of prove how important I think it is.

It's hard for me to know exactly where I am, but I think I'm at higher level than the rate they're offering anyway. Thanks again for the input, always good to get a more experienced view. I 'm just not sure how to handle it if they flat refuse more than that.

In your experience, if you don't mind another question, how likely is is that the recruitment agency will take a cut on their end?

In my experience, they wont offer you the going rate unless they know they'll lose you. It's their job to keep costs down and is nothing personal.

Would you walk? The jobs market for your skill set is very buoyant at the moment.

capefear

Don't forget to factor in things like accountants fees, unpaid sick leave and holiday pay. Also you will be on a class s stamp not a class a stamp so you won't have the same social welfare entitlements as paye workers.

Have a look at some recruitment websites for similar roles and see what rates are on offer.
Hth

dannny1

John_Mc wrote: »

In my experience, they wont offer you the going rate unless they know they'll lose you. It's their job to keep costs down and is nothing personal.

Would you walk? The jobs market for your skill set is very buoyant at the moment.

I'm not sure If I would walk. I do like it there, the people are good and the IT manager is good at what he does, gives you time, insulates you from distractions etc.

I've noticed there are a good number of jobs out there, but I don't think I would be up for the rigmarole of setting up a new contract and having to deal with recruitment agencies until after the Summer as I'm moving and going away.

I initially asked for 320, but said I would go to 300. The recruiter keeps saying that such a big jump on the first contract is very unlikely and almost unheard of. The company, as I said offered another 20 a day and the recruiter is seeing what they can do. To be honest, I think everyone involved knows what I asked for is fair enough considering what I'm doing and the recruiter is bull****ting me. There is only three weeks left in the contract, and they are dragging their feet, I think to put pressure on me, which is working, so I'm torn as to whether be a complete hard ass about it and throw the pressure back on them, or accept a slightly better offer with the understanding that the next jump has to be on par with industry standard levels.

dannny1

capefear wrote: »

Don't forget to factor in things like accountants fees, unpaid sick leave and holiday pay. Also you will be on a class s stamp not a class a stamp so you won't have the same social welfare entitlements as paye workers.

Have a look at some recruitment websites for similar roles and see what rates are on offer.
Hth

Thanks, I have the accountant all set up and I'm happy with him. I have been trying to find rates on jobs sites but they are hardly ever disclosed and I wanted a developers perspective as, let's just say, I find recruiters to have skewed view of things, in that they tell you what is advantageous to them as if it's gospel!

John_Mc

dannny1 wrote: »

I'm not sure If I would walk. I do like it there, the people are good and the IT manager is good at what he does, gives you time, insulates you from distractions etc.

I've noticed there are a good number of jobs out there, but I don't think I would be up for the rigmarole of setting up a new contract and having to deal with recruitment agencies until after the Summer as I'm moving and going away.

I initially asked for 320, but said I would go to 300. The recruiter keeps saying that such a big jump on the first contract is very unlikely and almost unheard of. The company, as I said offered another 20 a day and the recruiter is seeing what they can do. To be honest, I think everyone involved knows what I asked for is fair enough considering what I'm doing and the recruiter is bull****ting me. There is only three weeks left in the contract, and they are dragging their feet, I think to put pressure on me, which is working, so I'm torn as to whether be a complete hard ass about it and throw the pressure back on them, or accept a slightly better offer with the understanding that the next jump has to be on par with industry standard levels.

Don't listen to a word that any recruiter tells you. They are parasites and can never be trusted.

I wouldn't budge on my price and any drivel from them would be replied with "I know the going rate for someone with my skill-set and will not go below it".

You should still enquire about open positions just in case - who knows, they might find out about it and realise that you're serious :pac:

dannny1

John_Mc wrote: »

Don't listen to a word that any recruiter tells you. They are parasites and can never be trusted.

I wouldn't budge on my price and any drivel from them would be replied with "I know the going rate for someone with my skill-set and will not go below it".

You should still enquire about open positions just in case - who knows, they might find out about it and realise that you're serious :pac:

Thanks John, good advice. I think I'll just have to fire off an email tomorrow stating just that and see what happens, if only to put the pressure back on them.

Thanks again for the advice!

SalteeDog

You are working through the agency right? i.e. they pay your salary? Then they will be taking a cut - generally a fixed %

dannny1

SalteeDog wrote: »

You are working through the agency right? i.e. they pay your salary? Then they will be taking a cut - generally a fixed %

Ah yeah, I know that. I think both me and the company I work for have asked them to take a cut and they're going to get back to me.

SalteeDog

I think I misunderstood your question and you misunderstood my response. Your agency is probably taking 15% of what you get paid. The chances of them reducing their share so you get more is in my experience zero.
If you dont get a raise my advice is dont move until you have another gig lined up. But once you have it leave.

srsly78

Depends a lot on location too, rarely see good rates on offer outside Dublin. And even then Dublin is pathetic compared to London which is really not that far away at all!

John_Mc

srsly78 wrote: »

Depends a lot on location too, rarely see good rates on offer outside Dublin. And even then Dublin is pathetic compared to London which is really not that far away at all!

That's true, but it's all relative. You work in London then you pay huge money for rent, transportation etc. It's the same in Dublin as well, although not as bad.

ChRoMe

John_Mc wrote: »

That's true, but it's all relative. You work in London then you pay huge money for rent, transportation etc. It's the same in Dublin as well, although not as bad.

Heh, as a Dub living in London, I'm not so sure about that!

John_Mc

ChRoMe wrote: »

Heh, as a Dub living in London, I'm not so sure about that!

Friends of mine are living in London sharing a house with strangers paying £1100 a month in rent, and another £100 on transportation.

It's not that bad in Dublin. Maybe for booze it is!

srsly78

Yes but the extra 100+ quid a day more than makes up for that. And even better when you can get your company to pay for it (complicated area, lots of conditions apply).

ChRoMe

John_Mc wrote: »

Friends of mine are living in London sharing a house with strangers paying £1100 a month in rent, and another £100 on transportation.

It's not that bad in Dublin. Maybe for booze it is!

25 euro a week bought **** all on the dart back when I was in Dublin

Sounds like your mate may be getting a raw deal? I pay 1150 a month (well half it with the missus) for a two bedroom apartment in a pretty upper class neighborhood in SE London.

ymmv etc.

Tar.Aldarion

ChRoMe wrote: »

25 euro a week bought **** all on the dart back when I was in Dublin

Sounds like your mate may be getting a raw deal? I pay 1150 a month (well half it with the missus) for a two bedroom apartment in a pretty upper class neighborhood in SE London.

ymmv etc.

That sounds unusually good? I looked recently and that was prices I saw for one bedroom apartments. Rent certainly seemed a lot more on average anyway.

ChRoMe

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

That sounds unusually good? I looked recently and that was prices I saw for one bedroom apartments. Rent certainly seemed a lot more on average anyway.

One bedroom apartments are disproportionately expensive, as in a one bed is 1k a month where a two bed will be around 1200 a month.

Tar.Aldarion

I suppose it depends on your circumstances so. If you want to live on your own over there you are screwed, otherwise it's fine.
1 bedroom apartment in london is probably an extra 7k in rent over Dublin. Living with somebody and getting a two bedroom apartment for that is pretty decent.

ChRoMe

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I suppose it depends on your circumstances so. If you want to live on your own over there you are screwed, otherwise it's fine.
1 bedroom apartment in london is probably an extra 7k in rent over Dublin. Living with somebody and getting a two bedroom apartment for that is pretty decent.

Also keep in mind that the spectrum of quality in the market is much broader because its a much bigger city.

You can get a one bad flat for 600-700 a month, the question is do you want to live in that area.

Edit to add: I really dont know where you are getting that 7k figure tbh.