investing in property

kevthegaff

just reading about in the chit chat about property, any ye lads investing in property rather than land. I might in the future if land continues to rise.

Muckit

right job Never be bought cheaper so long as you can secure mortgage

Wicklowandy

Value has to be linked to future wage rates ( @2x salary) and the inevitable interest rates we're going to see in the next 4-6 years.

Dublin has a quasi bubble at the moment, and plenty of other areas of the country are still overvalued.

While it may appear cheap, I think you'll struggle to have much capital appreciation for a number of years.

bob charles

I would buy one house straight away, then leverage it and buy two and repeat the process as many times as possible. If things go really well you could start up buying apartments in the next big holiday spots in one of the PIIGS

Alternatively I would invest my money in something I know and understand and are able to give a detailed breakdown of your investment/stocks/company etc in 30 seconds if asked

Actually how the fup is a house considered an investment with the crap returns. Money in the worst savings plan in the bank would yield more even going back 10 years.

David Mitchell calls it well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pDTiFkXgEE

Wicklowandy

You can see how another bubble will start - the Irish learn nothing, a new generation of unindebted suckers is on the way

bob charles

Wicklowandy wrote: »

You can see how another bubble will start - the Irish learn nothing, a new generation of unindebted suckers is on the way

identify them and take advantage of a new bunch all over again

PMU

kevthegaff wrote: »

just reading about in the chit chat about property, any ye lads investing in property rather than land. I might in the future if land continues to rise.

yea ,next year (2004) should be even better

kowtow

bob charles wrote: »

Actually how the fup is a house considered an investment with the crap returns. Money in the worst savings plan in the bank would yield more even going back 10 years.

In the money markets we call it a "curve trade" - short money (3-5 year borrowing) used to speculate on the value of long money (30 yr note) and if I sold to anyone who didn't meet the qualified investor regulations I'd go to prison, or certainly be fined.

Unless the asset in question is a house - in which case I can promote the same trade on television everywhere and tell the world they'd be mad not to climb on the "property ladder" and were in danger of missing out.

Insp. Harry Callahan

There are some good value at the mo in certain areas,probably better buying in a place of high population density, my friend has bought a couple of places in NI, got them rented out no bother, 10% return.
Probably won't be rising in price quickly anytime soon but a lot of properties are changing hands at the moment at low money

bob charles

kowtow wrote: »

In the money markets we call it a "curve trade" - short money (3-5 year borrowing) used to speculate on the value of long money (30 yr note) and if I sold to anyone who didn't meet the qualified investor regulations I'd go to prison, or certainly be fined.

Unless the asset in question is a house - in which case I can promote the same trade on television everywhere and tell the world they'd be mad not to climb on the "property ladder" and were in danger of missing out.

ah so there is a reason to your return

Muckit

bob charles wrote: »

Actually how the fup is a house considered an investment with the crap returns

Crap returns?? Rental income hasn't come down in line with property price drops........ and won't as people too ****less to buy...... and property taxes etc etc are helping put people off buying, they'd rather rent, so why not capitalise on this? Houses will never be as low, it's a buyers market. Ignore the asking price and bid them what you think it worth. Mortgage, what am I talking about, a good savings account and possibly a little credit union loan would do the trick.

Plus bob you really need to leave home, you could avail of the rent a room scheme and rent out a room virtually tax free

kowtow

I suppose if you confine yourself to a purchase price of 10x rent, and the rent you figure on is no more than 3x average salary you should be ok. Don't expect rents to increase faster than inflation for too long.

And try not to figure on capital gains anywhere in your plan, Ireland's economic fundamentals are way to shaky to support long term yields much below 10%

The German housing market has seen capital gains of 39% - since 2000 - so that might well be where we are heading. Fair rents, rising only with inflation (if that) and purchase prices of 10x rent. Long term mortgage rates 5-8%

bob charles

Muckit wrote: »

Crap returns?? Rental income hasn't come down in line with property price drops........ and won't as people too ****less to buy...... and property taxes etc etc are helping put people off buying, they'd rather rent, so why not capitalise on this? Houses will never be as low, it's a buyers market. Ignore the asking price and bid them what you think it worth. Mortgage, what am I talking about, a good savings account and possibly a little credit union loan would do the trick.

Plus bob you really need to leave home, you could avail of the rent a room scheme and rent out a room virtually tax free

what return can I expect so from a house bought today in say Galway, after interest on the loan is paid, hassle factor leasing and tax on the income earned and everything else in and out between is calculated - 5%? allot better than in times gone by but still a good investment?

Your right about renting out the auld room. I spend so little time in the bed I might as well kip in the jeep.

nashmach

bob charles wrote: »

Your right about renting out the auld room. I spend so little time in the bed I might as well kip in the jeep.

The ladies wouldn't be too impressed with that Bob

People are making the assumption here too that there will be no problem renting a property out which can be far from true and when the lease expires it can lead to a lot of money having to be spent to tidy up the place again.....

Birdnuts

kowtow wrote: »

I suppose if you confine yourself to a purchase price of 10x rent, and the rent you figure on is no more than 3x average salary you should be ok. Don't expect rents to increase faster than inflation for too long.

And try not to figure on capital gains anywhere in your plan, Ireland's economic fundamentals are way to shaky to support long term yields much below 10%

The German housing market has seen capital gains of 39% - since 2000 - so that might well be where we are heading. Fair rents, rising only with inflation (if that) and purchase prices of 10x rent. Long term mortgage rates 5-8%

I suspect the likes of Rent Allowance is putting an artificial floor under rents in many parts of the country. I don't know how long this situation can last given that the troika are highlighting this as one of the issues that needs to be looked at when it comes to government policies that make the economy less compeditive.

Tipp Man

Don't forget that Rent a Room relief is only available on your principle private residence - and not on any rental property that you might have

Muckit

suit bob down to the ground. He won't see the tenant because he spends so much time on the road, but he still has a fixed abode ..... and crucially .... access to a shower.... and he gets to wave goodbye to Mammy.... it's win win

mf240

Give me a few acres of land anyday..

Tenants are a pain in hole. Will stick with what I know.

pakalasa

It's incredible how much the tide has turned. It wasn't that long ago that people were camping out overnight just to get their name down for a house that wasn't even built.
When prices were mad high everybody wanted to buy. Now after the crash, nobody wants them. Mad, when you think about it.

lakill Farm

worked with a top 5 developer/NAMA. saw what all the top lads in pension pots and anglo paid for apartments in Dublin 4. a farm a land for a standard 6 place family burial plot size apartment.

rental properties are hard work, you really need to be able to buy a shack of a place cheap, renovate and then rent. that way your making a capital gain and leverage against next property for mortgage. but not my area, I just saw how not to do it. by about 4billion:cool:

all the same just needed extra 0000 on the calculator

washman3

Suggest posters here should take a read of a thread titled 'Property prices are ACTUALLY at work in the After Hours forum.
The vested interests talking up the property stick out like a sore thumb, even bordering on embarressing. Its amazing to read how they launch scathing attacks on anybody who dares to suggest that propery prices may fall further.
Surprised they have'nt spotted this thread yet and try to convince unsuspecting speculators to 'get on the ladder'. :P

bbam

Well, I ended up as a landlord through a strange sequence of events. With te only consolation being we have fantastic tennants

I'd sell the house in the morning if the market were any good.

For me the sooner there is a new generation of suckers the better. I'll be there lurking, ready to pounce on their mortgage money. All this over regulation in the mortgage market is bad for capitalism.

lakill Farm

bbam wrote: »

Well, I ended up as a landlord through a strange sequence of events. With te only consolation being we have fantastic tennants

I'd sell the house in the morning if the market were any good.

For me the sooner there is a new generation of suckers the better. I'll be there lurking, ready to pounce on their mortgage money. All this over regulation in the mortgage market is bad for capitalism.

Dont forget to move back into the house for a few weeks and claim it back as principle private residence for a tax free windfall

20silkcut

I have found myself as a a very reluctant landlord as a result of my fathers death.
Just after coming off a six month stretch with the house un-occupied nightmare stuff. Have decent tenants now.
No way would I recommend buying a house as an investment.
I had to pay six mortgage payments out of my farm income.
Then you are only allowed the interest as tax expense on that.
Also had to spend about 2 grand doing it up. Spent another grand cleaning up after the last guy and there is still about 500 quid of repairs outstanding.
Then you have the anxiety attack every time you see your tenants phone no come up on your phone dreading as to what might be wrong or what they want you to buy for them.
I put it up for sale Paid 200 quid and got one viewing out of it. And they hadn't a blind bit of interest in it.



You would want to be crazy mental in fact to buy a house for any other reason than to live in.

moy83

Lads will ye all buy houses and sites I could do with more work ;-)

hugo29

moy83 wrote: »

Lads will ye all buy houses and sites I could do with more work ;-)

good idea moy and when they need maps sorted, send them my way:D

Conmaicne Mara

moy83 wrote: »

Lads will ye all buy houses and sites I could do with more work ;-)

Ya have to create the impression everyone is already buying so lads don't miss out and panic buy

bob charles

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Ya have to create the impression everyone is already buying so lads don't miss out and panic buy

I have two bought, lets get this pyramid scheme rolling.

PN14

Lads there is def some good value in property out there if you have the readies available however there is a load of rubbish there too. Anyone buying needs to investigate what they are buying as many properties have planning, build issues etc which would cost more that the value of the property to put right. Special care should be taken on properties at auction as there is often an underlying reason why they are there. That is not to say that there aren't genuine properties available at these auctions.
With a bit a care and investigation there is value in the right property in the right location however these are usually not the dirt cheap type of property. values at around the 10 times the rental income seem to to be the general value. Anyone getting in now need to be in it for the long haul really. Capital gains appreciation on any property is going to be a long term thing really.

Conmaicne Mara

bob charles wrote: »

I have two bought, lets get this pyramid scheme rolling.

Only two Bob? I've had to start my own management company "Fast Buck Services" to manage my portfolio, loike, you know to take away the day to day headaches so I can concentrate on my golf swing.

pakalasa

I never thought I'd be the only one saying property is a good investment. And I didn't get burned by the last boom either.:rolleyes:
Buy at the bottom.

moy83

We are only a few miles from the college and hospital here , during the boom the father was plagued by doctors , lecturers and solicitors looking for sites . There has been no interest at all in the last five years but out of the blue last week not one but two people came to inquire about buying a site off him . Are the banks letting out money again I wonder ?

Conmaicne Mara

moy83 wrote: »

We are only a few miles from the college and hospital here , during the boom the father was plagued by doctors , lecturers and solicitors looking for sites . There has been no interest at all in NJ the last five years but out of the blue last week not one but two people came to inquire about buying a site off him . Are the banks letting out money again I wonder ?

Was that ye cutting silage by side of the road yesterday

hugo29

moy83 wrote: »

We are only a few miles from the college and hospital here , during the boom the father was plagued by doctors , lecturers and solicitors looking for sites . There has been no interest at all in the last five years but out of the blue last week not one but two people came to inquire about buying a site off him . Are the banks letting out money again I wonder ?

id say its people looking for a bargain or a cheap site, banks are brutal to deal with at the moment, the hoops people are jumping through to get mortgage approval is shocking,

moy83

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Was that ye cutting silage by side of the road yesterday

My father was cutting it but its not ours , thats your local representatives house

moy83

hugo29 wrote: »

id say its people looking for a bargain or a cheap site, banks are brutal to deal with at the moment, the hoops people are jumping through to get mortgage approval is shocking,

Could be that alright but its strange how the two came in the same week . Maybe there is a rumor out that we r stuck for money or something like that :-) How right they would be!

whelan1

hugo29 wrote: »

id say its people looking for a bargain or a cheap site, banks are brutal to deal with at the moment, the hoops people are jumping through to get mortgage approval is shocking,

the banks are a total joke.... total load of crap, 2 months to orgainise a small seasonal loan and extension to overdraft and its still not in my account yet

hugo29

whelan1 wrote: »

the banks are a total joke.... total load of crap, 2 months to orgainise a small seasonal loan and extension to overdraft and its still not in my account yet

try this one

look for mortgage approval
banks insist on applicants having 20% of build cost themselves
get approval after 3 months if your lucky

commence construction, go to bank for first drawdown, bank insist on applicant using their funds first and then they will top up the outstanding amount to give total amount required on drawdown no 1

progress to last stage payment, bank will not release final drawdown until house is finished, how the fcuk can people finish house when they had to plough their 20% in at the start

Conmaicne Mara

moy83 wrote: »

My father was cutting it but its not ours , thats your local representatives house

Hope he charged him well, he's on a good wage now lol.

Look at that, small county, could have been anyone!

moy83

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Hope he charged him well, he's on a good wage now lol.

Look at that, small county, could have been anyone!

We are closer to town you will see us at it next week if you're passing again .
No he doesnt charge at all , they give us a tractor and trailer for ours and we swop stuff back and over like that ,

Conmaicne Mara

I'll keep an eye out