Standard Internal Door Sizes

rampantbunny

Hi all. I have Architect drafted plans for a new build from which I've taken a door schedule to a supplier with the following door opening dimensions:

2100 mm x 910 mm
2100 mm x 800 mm

The supplier maintains that a 2100 x 800 door opening is unusual. They suggest the opening should not be as tall.
From a brief online search of door suppliers, I see common door sizes of:
2032mm x 864mm | 2032mm x 813mm | 1981mm x 762mm | 1981mm x 711mm | 1981mm x 660mm

In my limited understanding, none of the listed sizes suit a 2100 x 800 ope.
Is there truth to what the original supplier has said, and I do indeed have non-standard door sizes?

sydthebeat

they are available

but in reality a block layer is not going to change his lintel heights, thats who the door opening dimension is aimed at, not the actual door supplier.

the difference in height can be packed out and hidden with the architrave.

kkelliher

you may be mixing door sizes and door ope sizes. 2100 would generally be door ope size and not the actual door size. The door ope size takes account of frame and door so you might want to check before you go back to them.

rampantbunny

kkelliher wrote: »

you may be mixing door sizes and door ope sizes. 2100 would generally be door ope size and not the actual door size. The door ope size takes account of frame and door so you might want to check before you go back to them.

Hi kkelliher, thanks for posting.
Door ope sizes are as per the architectural drawings and confirmed with architect. Door sizes are direct from suppliers websites.
Just rechecked my original post to make sure its worded properly and it looks ok.

kkelliher

rampantbunny wrote: »

Hi kkelliher, thanks for posting.
Door ope sizes are as per the architectural drawings and confirmed with architect.

If for a new build the architect must have based his door ope sizes on something? It is very unusual for an architect to spec off standard joinery for a new build one off house unless there is a reason i.e architectural or additional light requirements

sydthebeat

rampantbunny wrote: »

Hi kkelliher, thanks for posting.
Door ope sizes are as per the architectural drawings and confirmed with architect. Door sizes are direct from suppliers websites.
Just rechecked my original post to make sure its worded properly and it looks ok.

but theres no confusion.

the block layer needs to know the door opening size.

The 2100 x 800 is probably the MOST standard door opening size in domestic construction.

The door frame will suit the door size. The door frame is the adjustable installation here.

rampantbunny

sydthebeat wrote: »

they are available

but in reality a block layer is not going to change his lintel heights, thats who the door opening dimension is aimed at, not the actual door supplier.

the difference in height can be packed out and hidden with the architrave.

Hi syd...and thanks for the link.

I haven't found the style of door I'm looking for anywhere as 2032 x 762, only 1981 x 762.
How much packing would 100mm architrave conceal btw?

I don't think I have the option of widening the opes (restricted width at some entrances) so the height might have to give despite what the block layer wants.

sydthebeat

rampantbunny wrote: »

Hi syd...and thanks for the link.

I haven't found the style of door I'm looking for anywhere as 2032 x 762, only 1981 x 762.
How much packing would 100mm architrave conceal btw?

I don't think I have the option of widening the opes (restricted width at some entrances) so the height might have to give despite what the block layer wants.

the difference between 2032 and 1981 is 51mm, basically 2"

The standard architrave is 4" and you can expand that.

This isnt an issue at all.

Leo Demidov

Standard architrave will cover 75mm

Leo Demidov

Is it possible that the 800 ope is for something like a hot press,cloakroom or ensuite and architect wants to maintain same door heights throughout for aesthetics. If this is the case you may have difficulty in sourcing stock doors to fit such ope, they certainly won't be available in all styles or from all manufacturers.

sydthebeat

wexfjord wrote: »

Is it possible that the 800 ope is for something like a hot press,cloakroom or ensuite and architect wants to maintain same door heights throughout for aesthetics. If this is the case you may have difficulty in sourcing stock doors to fit such ope, they certainly won't be available in all styles or from all manufacturers.

if all the nearby doors are 2100 x 900 and the architect insist on maintaining the same architrave level through, then simply widen the open to 900.

if the levels are not an issue, then build the 2100 x 800 and finish with a slightly lower architrave, or a 6" top architrave to maintain levels.

The actual size of the opening is not an issue at all, and as i say, is probably the most standard door opening size in domestic construction.

sinnerboy

Don't overlook the requirements of Part M 2010 Diagram 33 Page 116- requiring 775 min clear opening ( taking into account door handles projection ) . That may cause you a re think.

Leo Demidov

I wouldn't have thought an 800 ope to be that common tbh, considering you're losing roughly 60mm to door frame.

rampantbunny

Thanks for the input guys.

Syd, the actual opes are 2100mm high...so that is a difference between door and ope of 119mm or 4.6 ". Isn't this the approximate 'gap' that must be covered with architrave (not the difference between the door heights)?

wexfjord, you're right. The doors are for ensuites, hot-press, attic door etc. Basically some of the doors that are not immediately visible without first entering another room. And yes, not all doors are supplied suitable for 2100 x 800 opes. Once I hit 800 width, the height seems to come down to 1981.

Hi sinnerboy. There is compliance with regs. The door swing is not restricted so all doors open wide enough into their respective rooms. Even if door sizes weren't restricted because of neighbouring walls, I'd still opt for narrower doors entering an ensuite...just means I have that little bit more room behind the door.

rampantbunny

sydthebeat wrote: »

if all the nearby doors are 2100 x 900 and the architect insist on maintaining the same architrave level through, then simply widen the open to 900.

if the levels are not an issue, then build the 2100 x 800 and finish with a slightly lower architrave, or a 6" top architrave to maintain levels.
.

I can't widen the doors to 900 because of adjacent walls.
In a previous draft from architect, some architrave was actually abutted to the neighbouring walls i.e. no gap between wall and architrave - the architrave would have looked like it was sunk into the plaster when built. Dislike this so much, it was one of the absolutes on my list to double-check, and glad I did.
So to remedy, these doors were made with ope width of 800mm, maintaining height at 2100 - making all doorways look more uniform with respect to architrave and door height.

sydthebeat wrote: »

The actual size of the opening is not an issue at all, and as i say, is probably the most standard door opening size in domestic construction.

What it really boils down to for me syd: without 6" architrave, is it possible for a 1981mm door with standard 4" architrave to fill a 2100mm high ope?
I'd avoid 6" architrave if possible as although it would maintain uniform height, I imagine this appeal is lost as it would be obvious that the architrave is just fatter than that on other nearby doors.

Leo Demidov

Assuming you're going to use 75 mm architrave rather than 100? In any event, 100 would just about cover but you could end up with the architrave hitting the parallel walls, the very problem you set out to avoid.

If its only 1 or 2 doors, you could get stock doors altered widthwise by a competent joiner or indeed get them made.

rampantbunny

wexfjord wrote: »

Assuming you're going to use 75 mm architrave rather than 100? In any event, 100 would just about cover but you could end up with the architrave hitting the parallel walls, the very problem you set out to avoid.

If its only 1 or 2 doors, you could get stock doors altered widthwise by a competent joiner or indeed get them made.

It's actually 100mm architrave (found it in one of the 30+ docs architect has produced). And it has been arranged so that this architrave does not hit parallel walls.
6 doors in total are of the smaller size. As they are secondary doors, i.e. doors within rooms, I've considered getting a different style door entirely, but not my first preference. Would consider getting doors made but I'm sure the bespoke route would cost a packet. Something I should look into before discounting though.
Thanks wexfjord.

sydthebeat

rampantbunny wrote: »

Syd, the actual opes are 2100mm high...so that is a difference between door and ope of 119mm or 4.6 ". Isn't this the approximate 'gap' that must be covered with architrave (not the difference between the door heights)?
.

no.
you must understand that ALL opens are built at 2100 m height. This works with block and lintel courses. The difference is made up by packing and hiding with the architrave.
The difference between the two doors is 51mm. This is easily hidden by a 100mm architrave.
There is always a 10mm gap between the frame head plate and the bottom of the architrave. There will also be at least 20mm between the floor finish and the bottom of the door.
so....
2100 minus floor finish of 20mm = 2080
2080 minus 20mm gap to door = 2060
2060 minus door size 1981 = 79
79 minus 10mm gap to architrave = 69

100mm architrave easily covers 69 mm packing.

the difference is even smaller if you use a door saddle.

sinnerboy wrote: »

Don't overlook the requirements of Part M 2010 Diagram 33 Page 116- requiring 775 min clear opening ( taking into account door handles projection ) . That may cause you a re think.

i am assuming this is a first floor situation, where the living room is on the ground floor.

Leo Demidov

OP, please speak to your architect again, i don't think you're going to get the correct advice here. You don't need to be packing and covering and hiding, those days are long gone.

muffler

wexfjord wrote: »

i don't think you're going to get the correct advice here.

Can you clarify this comment please?

Leo Demidov

I'll re-word it. The architect who detailed the door schedule is more accurately going to be able to justify decisions made and further discuss alternatives.

sydthebeat

wexfjord wrote: »

I'll re-word it. The architect who detailed the door schedule is more accurately going to be able to justify decisions made and further discuss alternatives.

there is nothing wrong with the 2100 x 800 opening specification.

if your now saying that you cant find 100mm architrave, then the building trade really is fecked!!!

personally i never specify 75mm architrave, it looks mean, especially if you have any decent floor to ceiling heights.

Leo Demidov

sydthebeat wrote: »

there is nothing wrong with the 2100 x 800 opening specification.

if your now saying that you cant find 100mm architrave, then the building trade really is fecked!!!

personally i never specify 75mm architrave, it looks mean, especially if you have any decent floor to ceiling heights.

Nice use of sarcasm from a Moderator.

Regarding some of your previous posts, 2100 x 800 is not the most common ope size, standard architrave size is not 100 (based on most common usage and notwithstanding the op is happy to use this), it is not acceptable to use 150mm architrave heads in a new build just to keep an architect happy, 20mm gaps under doors in conjunction with a door saddle? Really? Also, nowhere does the op state that blockwork is being used, if its stud partition, why not suggest 2050 head height. In any event, a blocklayer can make an ope to any specified height.

Its a pity the professionals don't listen from time to time. If i am incorrect in something I've said, i do apologise. Best of luck to the op in his new build.

sydthebeat

no sarcasm at all in my post.

firstly, did i say 20mm gap in conjunction with a door saddle?? please read again.

if blockwork isnt being used then is even more of a non issue. The fact its being brought up would say to me that its block work walls.

Unless your building celtic tiger production line housing, i wouldnt dream of specifying 75mm architrave.
as i said i always specify 100mm architrave minimum , in some cases its 150mm.
These are readily and commonly available from any good builders merchant.

i will just reiterate... 2100 x 800 is an extremely common opening size in domestic construction.

Leo Demidov

Why use terms like most common, standard etc if they are incorrect. I never said that 100mm is not used nor available. You did however say that 2100 x 800 is most common ope, completely incorrect. with reference to your post at 12.30 yesterday you suggest that there would be at least 20mm gap tween door and floor which can be further enhanced using door saddle.

I'm going to bow out of this pissing contest, you are obviously not in a position to listen to anyone.

sydthebeat

wexfjord wrote: »

Why use terms like most common, standard etc if they are incorrect. I never said that 100mm is not used nor available. You did however say that 2100 x 800 is most common ope, completely incorrect. with reference to your post at 12.30 yesterday you suggest that there would be at least 20mm gap tween door and floor which can be further enhanced using door saddle.

I'm going to bow out of this pissing contest, you are obviously not in a position to listen to anyone.

sorry but i cant see to see you offering anything substantial to the question other than "go back to the architect"

ive shown that there is door styles available in the size required.
ive shown how it can be constructed to suit the size that the OP wants to pick

but hey, if im the one thats not listening fine... i can only bang my head against a wall for so long.....

Leo Demidov

@rampantbunny, any pictures of the finished product. Would love to see what you opted to do.

rampantbunny

wexfjord wrote: »

@rampantbunny, any pictures of the finished product. Would love to see what you opted to do.

Carpenter attached two 2 x 4s stacked on each other under certain lintels. This reduced the gap for those doors. Plasterer saw it and was 'surprised' at the amount of wood he'd have to cover. He put mesh over it and said 'hope for the best'.

The timbers when originally attached to close the gap, were loose - poor workmanship maybe, but overall, packing to fill the gap shouldn't be the norm. Leave some room to maneuver but a block layer not lowering lintels because it doesn't suit the block courses sounds like taking the easy way out.

Anyway, like the plasterer said, hope for the best, but buy some filler just in case.

SC024

Standard Domestic Door Sizes with standard frames - Commercial / Fire doors / Off standard Different heights & widths

Door - Margin - Frame - Fitting - Ope Size

24 - 1/4 - 2 3/4s - 3/4 inch - 27 3/4s or 700mm

26 - 1/4 - 2 3/4s - 3/4 inch 30 inchs or 750mm

28 - 1/4 - 2 3/4s - 3/4 inch 32 inchs or 800mm

30 - 1/4 2 3/4s - 3/4 inch - 34 inches or 850mm

32 - 1/4 - 2 3/4 3/4 inch - 36 inchs or 900mm

for your ope height for 78 inch door make lintel 80 inchs above FFL
for your ope height for 80 inch door make lintel 82 inchs above FFL

rampantbunny

SC024 wrote: »

Standard Domestic Door Sizes with standard frames - Commercial / Fire doors / Off standard Different heights & widths

Door - Margin - Frame - Fitting - Ope Size

24 - 1/4 - 2 3/4s - 3/4 inch - 27 3/4s or 700mm

26 - 1/4 - 2 3/4s - 3/4 inch 30 inchs or 750mm

28 - 1/4 - 2 3/4s - 3/4 inch 32 inchs or 800mm

30 - 1/4 2 3/4s - 3/4 inch - 34 inches or 850mm

32 - 1/4 - 2 3/4 3/4 inch - 36 inchs or 900mm

for your ope height for 78 inch door make lintel 80 inchs above FFL
for your ope height for 80 inch door make lintel 82 inchs above FFL

Thanks SC024 but a little late. Started thread way back. Wexfjord was only looking for an update. Still, the info might be useful to someone else.