Marathon Challenge

ghogie91

Hi All,

I have never ran a marathon before, longest I prob would have run is a 10k

I am fit which is to why I think my question is slightly different from those couch to marathon answers.

Im a cyclist, I will be doing events such as the ring of kerry and other 100+ events, 150-200km events.

However I want to try my hand at running and work the two sports in tandem. I have been running 5k a day this week with times on the road at about 29 minutes and then tredmill is 22 minutes.

My question is how hard would a 41.6km marathon? (sorry about the kms but I cycle in them so will run in them)

Really and truely what sort of training should I be putting in for hte Dublin City marathon for example as I would have I have ample time to tain since its in october. I have read all the hints and tips on the website and its all papertalk. What would the tips be from you guys here?

Thanks,
Gary

BeepBeep67

A 41.6k marathon is a little easier than a 42.2k one :P

But re training, you've obviously a good endurance base, but don't underestimate the different muscles required to complete a marathon.
I run a lot and cycle a bit and when I get back in the saddle it always takes several weeks to 'find' my bike legs, despite have no issues running for 2.5hrs, my first couple of 2hr + bikes do take it out of me.
You haven't mentioned a time target and for your 1st marathon just aiming to complete it should be the goal and times come at a later stage. With that in mind, keep doing what you are doing and start to increase 1-2 of your runs weekly by 10% and step back every 4 weeks.
There's a good novice plan on halhigdon.com

Krusty_Clown

I think what you're probably asking is: how relevant would my cycling fitness be, towards the goal of running a marathon?

The answer is not very relevant. Because you are already running 5k a couple of times a week, you're not starting from scratch, and because you are used to cycling for 2+ hours, you have good fitness and discipline, but otherwise, you're pretty much in the 'starting out' category. I'd take a look at the various plans from beepbeep67's link, and find one that looks achievable, given your other commitments (cycling, work, etc). If you find that it it too easy, you could switch to another plan. Generally speaking though, the typical path would be to run (and race) at shorter distances before moving onto the longer distances (similar to cycling).

When you say 'I will be doing', does that mean that you're not doing these race distances at the moment?

Gavlor

ghogie91 wrote: »

Hi All,

I have never ran a marathon before, longest I prob would have run is a 10k

I am fit which is to why I think my question is slightly different from those couch to marathon answers.

Im a cyclist, I will be doing events such as the ring of kerry and other 100+ events, 150-200km events.

However I want to try my hand at running and work the two sports in tandem. I have been running 5k a day this week with times on the road at about 29 minutes and then tredmill is 22 minutes.

My question is how hard would a 41.6km marathon? (sorry about the kms but I cycle in them so will run in them)

Really and truely what sort of training should I be putting in for hte Dublin City marathon for example as I would have I have ample time to tain since its in october. I have read all the hints and tips on the website and its all papertalk. What would the tips be from you guys here?

Thanks,
Gary

I went from doing 160k sportives to marathon training and found the marathon a lot more difficult in terms of training and the occasion itself.

Running helps cycling but cycling doesn't particularly help running. If you are serious about a marathon then you'll realistically only manage one spin a week and the rest of the time will be spent building up the miles running.

The main difference between a marathon and a 160-200k sportif is that you get a break on the bike, you aren't constantly spinning and you can also stop at food stop etc. for a marathon you need the physical and mental ability to keep running non stop for 2.30-5.30 hours depending on your pace

tHE vAGGABOND

Thats not fair, as I have been injured over last few weeks I have been doing a fair bit of cycling [inc. long spins at weekends] and had convinced myself that it would have been really helping my running - bah

Enduro

Cycling DEFINITELY helps running. That's experience, not theory, speaking.

ghogie91

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I think what you're probably asking is: how relevant would my cycling fitness be, towards the goal of running a marathon?

The answer is not very relevant. Because you are already running 5k a couple of times a week, you're not starting from scratch, and because you are used to cycling for 2+ hours, you have good fitness and discipline, but otherwise, you're pretty much in the 'starting out' category. I'd take a look at the various plans from beepbeep67's link, and find one that looks achievable, given your other commitments (cycling, work, etc). If you find that it it too easy, you could switch to another plan. Generally speaking though, the typical path would be to run (and race) at shorter distances before moving onto the longer distances (similar to cycling).

When you say 'I will be doing', does that mean that you're not doing these race distances at the moment?

I will be means just the events in the near future yes I have been doing long distances for a good while now thanks for the reply

ghogie91

Gavlor wrote: »

I went from doing 160k sportives to marathon training and found the marathon a lot more difficult in terms of training and the occasion itself.

Running helps cycling but cycling doesn't particularly help running. If you are serious about a marathon then you'll realistically only manage one spin a week and the rest of the time will be spent building up the miles running.

The main difference between a marathon and a 160-200k sportif is that you get a break on the bike, you aren't constantly spinning and you can also stop at food stop etc. for a marathon you need the physical and mental ability to keep running non stop for 2.30-5.30 hours depending on your pace

Yeah when you put it like that! I would like to think I could finish a marathon in 3.45 max!

Krusty_Clown

Enduro wrote: »

Cycling DEFINITELY helps running. That's experience, not theory, speaking.

You are talking from the perspective of someone who has been running for a long time (and for very long distances too). In that environment, cycling will certainly provide additional benefit. But for someone like ghogie91 who has almost no background in running, do you not agree that he/she needs to get a lot of miles covered on foot, before tackling a marathon? Do you think cycling is a reasonable substitute?

Enduro

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

You are talking from the perspective of someone who has been running for a long time (and for very long distances too). In that environment, cycling will certainly provide additional benefit. But for someone like ghogie91 who has almost no background in running, do you not agree that he/she needs to get a lot of miles covered on foot, before tackling a marathon? Do you think cycling is a reasonable substitute?

My running and cycling developed pretty much in parallel. I've only been running for about a year longer than I've been cycling.

The most obvious clue to me in seeing the big benifits that cycling could bring was seeing my mountainbiking friends turn up to give hill running a go. It was very obvious that their cycling had the effect of turning them into excellent climbers. Unfortunately for them it didn't seem to have a matching effect on their descending speed (despite being used to covering technical ground at speed). In fact Colm Mullen's qualification for the Irish team heading for the European mountain running championsips is just the most recent obvious example (look at the photos from the race and you'll see him sporting cycling clothes, and even more tellingly very obvious cycling tan lines!).

Cycling is no substiute for running training, but it works very well in parallel. There are obvious mental advantages to interleaving different sports in training. And I've found that there are physical advantages as well.

I do absolutely agree that ghogie91 needs to get a lot of running milage into his legs. But there is no need to abandon cycling, and it is certainly incorrect to say that cycling has no benifits for running.

Krusty_Clown

Enduro wrote: »

I do absolutely agree that ghogie91 needs to get a lot of running milage into his legs. But there is no need to abandon cycling, and it is certainly incorrect to say that cycling has no benifits for running.

Just as well no one suggested either of those things then.

Enduro

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I think what you're probably asking is: how relevant would my cycling fitness be, towards the goal of running a marathon?

The answer is not very relevant.

Gavlor wrote: »

Running helps cycling but cycling doesn't particularly help running. If you are serious about a marathon then you'll realistically only manage one spin a week and the rest of the time will be spent building up the miles running.

These are the two quotes that I'm responding to that I think are incorrect, from my own experience and my observations of cyclists starting to run. The second one in particular is backwards. I would say that cycling helps running more than running helps cycling.

Gavlor

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

Thats not fair, as I have been injured over last few weeks I have been doing a fair bit of cycling [inc. long spins at weekends] and had convinced myself that it would have been really helping my running - bah

All is not lost!! At least you're maintaining your fitness level.

My comment was aimed towards the op who has never ran a marathon before. But I definitely think, from experience, that running benefits cycling when training for a sportif far more than cycling
Benefits training for a marathon.

For me cycling is great for recovery session but for a marathon newbie it shouldn't replace running sessions.

Gavlor

Enduro wrote: »

These are the two quotes that I'm responding to that I think are incorrect, from my own experience and my observations of cyclists starting to run. The second one in particular is backwards. I would say that cycling helps running more than running helps cycling.

Only as a recovery session. A long run as part of a bike training programme is a lot more beneficial than a long spin in a marathon training programme.

Enduro

On what basis are you saying that? It's the opposite of my experience.

Gavlor

Enduro wrote: »

On what basis are you saying that? It's the opposite of my experience.

It's been my experience having made the transition from cycling to running in the same manner that the op is doing

Enduro

That's interesting. You're the first person I've come across with that experience.

Off-topic, but what were the benifits that you found that running brought to your cycling?

Gavlor

Enduro wrote: »

That's interesting. You're the first person I've come across with that experience.

Off-topic, but what were the benifits that you found that running brought to your cycling?

I'm unique alright

I was always strong hills and mountains but the running really improved my wattage on the flat. Would have increased my average speed by 5-6kph

tHE vAGGABOND

A tangent, but since we have some experts here, would I be correct in my assumption, that keeping a decent length weekly spin in my training schedule will be good for mental sanity, breaking up the boring part of marathon training [running the same kind of sessions, in somewhat the same places for 3/4 months]...

..but also [and really importantly for me, who has gotten a lot of mickey mouse leg injuries] SHOULD really help with injury prevention, by really strengthening legs. Clearly its not a magic bullet, so talking conditional tense here

Always conscious of the huge amount of mixed info out there on the interweb, so value first hand info from experienced folks like yourselves over recycled runners world articles

Enduro

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

A tangent, but since we have some experts here, would I be correct in my assumption, that keeping a decent length weekly spin in my training schedule will be good for mental sanity, breaking up the boring part of marathon training [running the same kind of sessions, in somewhat the same places for 3/4 months]...

..but also [and really importantly for me, who has gotten a lot of mickey mouse leg injuries] SHOULD really help with injury prevention, by really strengthening legs. Clearly its not a magic bullet, so talking conditional tense here

Always conscious of the huge amount of mixed info out there on the interweb, so value first hand info from experienced folks like yourselves over recycled runners world articles

In my opinion, absolutely. Those are two of the more obvious benifits of mixing in regular cycling sessions. The mental gain is clear enough. I think that training up a different muscle grouping in your legs results in less injuries as you're less likely to get some of the more classic runners' injuries such as Runners' Knee. A lot of injuries that runners get can be as a result of asymmetric muscle development. Cycling training brings that back a bit more in balanace, IMHO! That has certainly been my experience anyway (and I do more running milage than most!)

Satanta

I'll add my experience then. I was cycling for a year before I started running and thought that my fitness was reasonable. My first run was torture and I couldn't get my head around how unfit I could be running 2 miles when I could cycle for 50 miles at a time. The caveat here is that I was only doing 2 cycles a week to introduce some cardio into my routine (mainly weights at the time), so maybe that is a factor in my terrible experience transitioning to running. I had no running at all for a good many years prior to this.

I came off the bike and trained for the marathon last year and TBH I had to forget about the bike altogether until I got my running fitness under control.

opus

Just for a bit of a change, I followed the 'Run Less, Run Faster' plan for DCM last year as I didn't have any real target for it apart from finishing. That involved 3 runs per week (~35 miles) plus two cycling sessions, friend of mine has the book so I copied the training plan from that.

Felt that the lack of running mileage hit me towards the end of the run as I really struggled in the last few miles but having said that I came home under 3.05 which I didn't expect. Your mileage might vary of course!

Gavlor

F€ck it, I had a big reply done on the phone but it failed to submit!

In summary, I agree with vaggabond in that throwing a spin in is great for varying training. I try get out whenever I can as I get bored running 5+ days a week.

I think the injury avoidance comes from avoiding repetitive action injury by not pounding the roads all the time.

That said and to bring it back to op original question, I think that it's very important for a first timer to focus on running as opposed to cycling when training for a marathon.

Something like an 80/20 split would be sufficient

Enduro

Gavlor wrote: »

That said and to bring it back to op original question, I think that it's very important for a first timer to focus on running as opposed to cycling when training for a marathon.

Something like an 80/20 split would be sufficient

If the Marathon is the primary target, then I think we're all in agreement