Cycling on Closed Roads - Phoenix Park - Licence needed??

kencoo

Hi Guys,

Went for a cycle this evening with my wife. Decided to do the loop around the Phoenix park which includes closed roads parallel to the liffey. (The road has steel bollards which can be removed otherwise they are full wide roads with footpaths on the side.)

Halfway around there was a park ranger who stopped us and said cycling on closed roads is illegal and we were not to use them. He was telling all cyclists.

He said a decision had been made as there was "alot of training going on" and "people cycling too fast" that we would need to apply for a licence to use them again.

I gave him a smart answer and continued on my way. Afterwards I noticed that some of the other closed roads had cycling lanes.

Is there anything in this though or just a ranger on a power trip talking codswallop?

kencoo

kencoo wrote: »

Hi Guys
Is there anything in this though or just a ranger on a power trip talking codswallop?

So he is a power ranger?

kencoo

He didnt have a power ranger suit but flew off afterwards. does that count?

jimm

Those bollards were installed to prohibit cars only. I've cycled that loop many times, but I wonder is it becoming another Strava victim.

Nothing here about it, although it has other road and gate closure notices.

http://www.phoenixpark.ie/newsevents/

buffalo

Did he give you details of where to apply for said licence?

And did you take the opportunity to ask him if the cycling tracks along Chesterfield Avenue were actually cycling tracks, or mixed use paths with cycling symbols on them?

du Maurier

Hard to find any joy cycling the loop in the Park in my opinion. People don't see it as a cycling track which I deem it to be (as there's solely a bicycle symbol on it). Kids, buggies, dogs etc. tearing across it blindly - maybe I'm wrong here, but is it solely a cycle track?

Cookie_Monster

should have asked him to define 'cycling too fast'

kencoo

my smart backchat was to ask him if he was telling pedestrians to get licences to walk on the cycling lanes. In fairness he said he had been telling walkers all day not to walk in those lanes.

might as well be throwing whiskey into a barrel of sawdust if you ask me.

jimm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

should have asked him to define 'cycling too fast'

....or totally confused him by telling him you were segment hunting.

Seaneh

kencoo wrote: »

might as well be throwing whiskey into a barrel of sawdust if you ask me.

Terrible analogy, putting whiskey into a barrel makes it taste good :pac:.

kencoo

Seaneh wrote: »

Terrible analogy, putting whiskey into a barrel makes it taste good :pac:.

Takes a while to fill though. might seem like a pointless exercise with small return!

RobertFoster

kencoo wrote: »

In fairness he said he had been telling walkers all day not to walk in those lanes.

Poor guy, that sounds like a soulless job.

I'd be interested to hear more about the licence.

Unregistered.

OP - Why did you stop?

Tomred13

kencoo wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Went for a cycle this evening with my wife. Decided to do the loop around the Phoenix park which includes closed roads parallel to the liffey. (The road has steel bollards which can be removed otherwise they are full wide roads with footpaths on the side.)

Halfway around there was a park ranger who stopped us and said cycling on closed roads is illegal and we were not to use them. He was telling all cyclists.

He said a decision had been made as there was "alot of training going on" and "people cycling too fast" that we would need to apply for a licence to use them again.

I gave him a smart answer and continued on my way. Afterwards I noticed that some of the other closed roads had cycling lanes.

Is there anything in this though or just a ranger on a power trip talking codswallop?

Jebus.. had to check to see if its April fools day, if this is true.. its a crazy rule!!!!!!!!

Cookie_Monster

here's the reports.

http://www.phoenixpark.ie/newsevents/title,24084,en.html

They point out several times how the closed road in fact benefits cycling (etc) and brings more cyclist in. Seems hard to reconcile them extolling it as a benefit and trying to ban it at the same time.

CramCycle

I am still confused over the license?

beauf

Maybe a power ranger got their instructions mixed up. Though OPW or whomever is in charge of the park seem to make poorly thought out decisions on a regular basis. So nothing would surprise me. They seem to go out of their way to inconvenience people.

That said some cyclists are doing ridiculous speeds even on the paths. But it would make more sense to pull these over and have a word in their ear than ban cyclists from closed roads. Generally if you email the park they'll reply back with their latest crazy stunt plan.

Incidentally, their own map shows on road cycle paths, on closed roads. http://www.phoenixpark.ie/media/Cycling%20Routes.pdf

The Kyber Hill/Kyber Road is actually got a lane marked with a cycle lane just behind the bollards.
http://www.duhac.tcdlife.ie/Information/Maps/phoenix_park.jpg

Of course this assumes it was a genuine park ranger. Not some loon.

12 sprocket

RobertFoster wrote: »

Poor guy, that sounds like a soulless job.

I'd be interested to hear more about the licence.

I imagine what he means by a licence is that clubs can apply to organise events / races on the circuit. Race were run up to a few years ago.. The roads are closed for the races. Signs have to be put up days in advance by the race organiser.
The park people and rangers do a brilliant job and are very pro cycling however they have to cater for everyone in a safe way. and mixing cyclists training fast and parents with young children buggies and old people walking on the same stretch of roads are certainly unsafe.
its a short stretch of road, the original poster could have just walked that stretch.

buffalo

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

here's the reports.

http://www.phoenixpark.ie/newsevents/title,24084,en.html

They point out several times how the closed road in fact benefits cycling (etc) and brings more cyclist in. Seems hard to reconcile them extolling it as a benefit and trying to ban it at the same time.

That section of road isn't the one the OP is referring to (by my reading anyway), it's the one in dotted red (with a middle bit in orange) at the bottom of this map:

beauf wrote: »

Incidentally, their own map shows on road cycle paths, on closed roads. http://www.phoenixpark.ie/media/Cycling%20Routes.pdf

So it would seem a little crazy to tell people to come use the cycle tracks, and then berate them for going to fast on roads. Unless as beauf suggests, the ranger got mixed up, and was supposed to be a freshly closed off part warning speedsters.

jimm

buffalo wrote: »

That section of road isn't the one the OP is referring to (by my reading anyway), it's the one in dotted red (with a middle bit in orange) at the bottom of this map:

AKA "The Thank You Lance Road" :mad:

It runs from St Marys Hospital to the Magazine Fort.

seamus

Similar discussions have come up here before.

The Phoenix Park is private land under the control of the OPW. This means that the OPW makes the rules. As an agent of the OPW, whatever the ranger says, goes, however his claim that cycling on closed roads is "illegal" is just plain wrong.

Roads open to motor vehicles fall under the definition of "public place" for the purposes of the road traffic act, so they fall under the joint jurisdiction of the Gardai and the OPW. Roads closed to motor vehicles fall solely under the jurisidiction of the OPW, so driving on these roads (assuming you're not running people down) is possibly trespassing - though I'm sure there are specific bye-laws that the OPW can use.

Breaching a bye-law is not a breach of the law, afaik, it's a civil matter. If OPW bye laws say that cycling on closed roads is not permitted, well then the ranger has the right to tell you to get off the bike.

In essence, on the paths, cycle lanes and closed roads it's a matter of "their park, their rules", but if this guy keeps hassling you, I would get in contact with the OPW directly to see what this "decision" is to ban cyclists from the closed roads.

studiorat

Are those roads actually closed to cars or there's no through way?

I seem to remember you can approach the car parks from either side of the bollards.

Mind you it was 3 days ago since I was last there so my memory could be slipping.

Lumen

Whilst buzzing pedestrians (whatever the right of way) is a bad thing in a place of leisure, I do think it's a bit odd that the parkies are getting upset about 80kg cyclists going at 30-40kph (or whatever) on a piece of tarmac whilst 10,000kg vehicles routinely break the 50kph speed limit without any sanction at all.

Putting proportionality and priorities aside, the OPW's enforcement is totally arse-faced. They have control over the entire road and off-road infrastructure, and when it fails to work (because people are using it) they start issuing seemly random and counter-productive directives.

For instance: build a cycle lane next to a road used by families to bring their babies/young kids to the park, whilst blocking off buggy access to the adjacent footpath with a metal rail. And then pull cyclists over who use the road and tell them they must use that hazard-filled cycle track.

WTF?

Judging by it's policies, the OPW considers cyclists to be pedestrians-on-wheels who have no need or right to be travelling faster than jogging pace.

I rather wish they would just fúck off.

I pays their wages! etc

morana

Get on to Cycling Ireland.

I am sure they will wade in on your behalf if it is OPW policy.

rainbow kirby

Was that the cranky oul lad that lives near the military road, or an actual park ranger? If it's the oul lad, he pretty much said the same thing to me and a few others a couple of years ago for running in a group around there...

beauf

morana wrote: »

Get on to Cycling Ireland.

I am sure they will wade in on your behalf if it is OPW policy.

I'm not sure even the OPW know what their policy is.

average_runner

du Maurier wrote: »

Hard to find any joy cycling the loop in the Park in my opinion. People don't see it as a cycling track which I deem it to be (as there's solely a bicycle symbol on it). Kids, buggies, dogs etc. tearing across it blindly - maybe I'm wrong here, but is it solely a cycle track?

Thats because some fool design the cycle lane beside the road where people have to cross.

Regarding the closed roads, i cant see no reason why people cant used them. Yes other people train on them, including me when i run there, but there is plenty of room for all, no need for any one to take the whole road up.