Classes getting mixed up

ankles

My daughters are in a primary school which has four classes for each year. They have a policy whereby every two years the classes are re-mixed so that everyone basically loses three quarters of their class mates. There is no particular method to this, certainly none that is disclosed to parents. It is supposedly done for the childrens' benefit and to aid in re-balancing classes, presumably if some classes are skewed one way or another. It is definitely not streaming.

The school says this is a common policy but I have never heard of any other school that does this. It happens every two years, and as you can imagine, when someone's friends end up in a different class it can be very upsetting.

Once allocated, the school will not accept any appeals, presumably because they know they would be inundated with requests from parents who don't want their children upset.

So my question is, does anyone know of any other school that does this, or any reason why whatever benefits this is supposed to have outweigh the upset caused by the classes being mixed in this way.

Moonbeam

That is a massive school.
I went to a school that had about 42 in a class and 3 classes which I suppose now a days is 30 x4 but you stayed in the same class through out.
Maybe it is to be fair to the teachers and so that no one class mate holds back the class

Mr.Wemmick

To be honest, what ever their reasons for doing it, it should be clearly written in their school policy/school handbook/documented with the board of management, and you should as a parent get full disclosure as to the reasons for mixing up the classes.. and you should have known about this before choosing the school for your daughter

I am not sure if the school is at fault here or the parents for not knowing what is going on. I don't understand why you were not given the full reasons for the changes - being told it is normal practice while children become upset and unsettled makes no sense, do you think you're being fobbed off? Do the parents association know anything? Have you ever had a meeting with or spoken to the principle as to the reasons? Try the Department of Education too and see what their regulations are regarding changing classes - is it up to the discretion of the principle via Board Of Management? If so, it should be in writing.. The school is responsible for the emotional and social welfare of the children whilst they are in school.. and as a result, the school has a duty of care to the children and need to verify clearly and be answerable as to the reasons why their doing what their doing.

muckisluck

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

To be honest, what ever their reasons for doing it, it should be clearly written in their school policy/school handbook/documented with the board of management, and you should as a parent get full disclosure as to the reasons for mixing up the classes.. and you should have known about this before choosing the school for your daughter

This is not a mandatory policy in any school so as such there is no obligation for anything in writing. Sometimes information needs to remain with management of the school for the greater good and that is probably why schools do not come under the remit of freedom of information laws.

RH149

My children's school does that too. They do the 'swaperoo' after Senior Infants. The children are asked for their 'friendship circles'-they tell their teacher I think or their teachers list them in Friendship groups and then they are mixed around into new groups for the next two years. I think grouping them in friendship circles ensures every child will be with at least two or three of their friends and while they won't get to stay with all their friends, having had two years together meant that while my daughter was with two of hers in class she missed another girl she was close to (but as I said they don't get to be with all their pals) but always found her in the yard and still went to her parties etc. She made friends with new classmates too and I think on the whole it was a positive thing. Children, especially girls become very clicky even in the early years so getting to know more of their peers, and not just the 30 they are in class with, is a good thing in my experience.

CommanderC

I think it is a positive thing to do. Making new friends is a learning process, a skill like any other. I think getting to grips with it as early as possible is a very positive thing in the long term. It can help kids with the move from primary to Junior Cycle at second level, from Junior to Senior cycle and then eventually from school to college.

Kids may be upset but if it going to work in their best interest, I as a parent will not be not be entertaining any tears or tantrums about it.

Kathnora

Well said, CommanderC! Yes, it is very good for children to adapt to changes in classes. Some parents fail to understand that. They ring the school saying how devastated their child is to be separated from their friends and tell us teachers how traumatised the children are....truth is, it's a nine day (or nine hour sometimes) wonder and the children adapt very quickly. Life has its disappointments and children have to learn to cope with them. Parents need to learn that too.

Mr.Wemmick

It is never a black and white issue with regard to child development. To simply say "change is good therefore parents need to learn that" is over simplified nonsense, if not a tad arrogant. Any special needs children with learning difficulties, children with social developmental issues all thrive in a consistent and routined environments. Teaching staff too are often unfairly put on the receiving end of class difficulties when changes occur.. and with the lack of resources and help/support for teachers today, it is only going to get worse.

Parents have a right to be involved in what is happening in schools and with their child's education. To infer that parents need to put up and shut up is an archaic attitude bred in the dark ages. It is also nonsense to infer that parents are over critical of schools and teachers - very often parental involvement is beneficial, highlighting problems and bringing about changes which can improve schools and a teacher's lot for the better.

bettybarlow

Parents have a right to be involved in what is happening in schools and with their child's education......

They have a right to be involved in what is happening in schools fair enough but the allocation of classes rests with the principal and there is no right in the rules for national schools granted to parents or teachers or parents associations even to question that.

Not saying that is right, only saying that is the way it is. Been on the receiving end of it twice,

ankles

Thanks for all the replies. the parents association know no more than the parents. The children are asked to select their friends at some stage but sometimes the friends may be split up anyway, and of course at that age you could just include your friends that day, rather than who they would pick if the question was "who do you want to be in the same class as next year".

I still don't know what the scientific/educational basis for it is. If it could be shown conclusively that this is on balance a positive developmentally, then I would be prepared to accept the upset in the short term. The frustration is that parents are merely told "this is a good thing" with no apparent basis. At least one or two others here do it as well so we know we're not the only school now but it is still clearly very much the exception.

lynski

the irish parents association has a comprehensive set of guidelines for this. there is a very precise set of criteria for mixing classes.
your school must of a policy published on this also and if not they should be able to supply it without giving any personal details away.

muckisluck

lynski wrote: »

the irish parents association has a comprehensive set of guidelines for this. there is a very precise set of criteria for mixing classes.
.

The only problem with this is it is not the irish Parents Association who mixes the classes. It's the individual schools Board of Management who do not have to follow any such criteria.

killbillvol2

lynski wrote: »

the irish parents association has a comprehensive set of guidelines for this. there is a very precise set of criteria for mixing classes.
your school must of a policy published on this also and if not they should be able to supply it without giving any personal details away.

Who are they?

byhookorbycrook

I presume the NPC?

killbillvol2

lynski wrote: »

the irish parents association has a comprehensive set of guidelines for this. there is a very precise set of criteria for mixing classes.
your school must of a policy published on this also and if not they should be able to supply it without giving any personal details away.

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Who are they?

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I presume the NPC?

Well if someone is going to give advice you'd think they'd get the name of the organisation right. Aside entirely from the fact that an NPC (or whoever) guideline has as much importance in the day to day running of a school as the local bus timetable.

aisher

My kids were mixed from 3 classes at the end of 5th class into 4 classes at the start of 6th to make each group smaller. The kids were really upset as they had been in the same groups since junior infants and they hated the idea of the split. I can say it was a complete success - they made new friends and could still mix with the old friends in the yard - so much so my daughter was annoyed when they put the original groups back together for a fun day in January as she hated the bigger class size - she had sobbed in Sept. when she was moved! I think it was a great idea as moving to Secondary wont be such an ordeal as the kids know they can make new friends as they move on.

Yellow rose

Can someone explain why on one hand a class of 35 becomes a split class where some of the children have been mixed down with a lower class for 3years and the other split children of the class have only been mixed down once can be a fair way of splitting a class. I am a parent of a child who is heading for 3rd time split down with a lower class when some of her peers have only been split once or twice. Surely equality should prevail and is it not in the best interest of the school and child to provide proper integration and ensure that from a social and educational aspect that splits should be alternated to enable this integration and that children are with all of their peers at some stage during their primary years. I perfectly understand that due to decreasing staff levels that splits are inevitable and becoming part of the norm but at least this should be done in a proper manner. I would be interested in other parent opinion if they have been in similar situations. The Principal in this case has advised in writing not to approach the school on this matter.

diveout

Our primary school does this too and the reason given is to prevent bullying.

mel.b

I went to school in Australia, way back in the 80s and the classes were mixed around every year and no one gave it a second thought. I'm sure it didn't affect me and i remember being more upset about the teacher i got (or didn't get) than if i was with my friends or not. I guess the good thing about changing them do frequently is that you always had some friends, no matter what and also allowed you get to know and play with other kids you wouldn't have otherwise.

Yellow rose

We don't know the reason only that numbers are high and have been told in a note they try to be fair which is not the case. What my concern is they have never shuffled the children in my child's split. It's the same mix for the last 4 years.So for example. The same 15 or so mixed down or up for last 4 years never get integrated with their peers. To my mind if the kids were shuffled around it would be better for them and there would also be a balance regarding the splits. It is my opinion that my child's school takes the easy option every year because it's less work just to continue the same splits each year. What a shame and there is nothing we can do as parents.