2011 BMW 520 - fails to start

DriveSkill

Just recently changed car to a 2011 520d and for the last 2 mornings it has refused to start initially but eventually does. On both days apart from first start in the morning the car starts perfectly every other time.

No warnings on the dash so only things I can think of is some sensor on the brake (will only start when foot on brake) or else a battery issue but would then expect some warning or fault to show in iDrive.

Anything else that could affect the first start in the morning ? Will try again tomorrow !!

MuppetCheck

How long is the delay between it turning over and starting?

Avns1s

Is it under warranty?

bmstuff

The car is most likely still under warranty bring it to the dealer. Those cars require BMW specific diagnostic equipment. Don't go to Advance Pitstop and the likes to run a diag on this, they will fail.
Find a mechanic that has the real BMW diagnostic tool in the mean time (BMW ISTA/OSS)
Autologic shops can not look after the F10 either properly. Even though this is the most complete aftermarket solution for BMW diagnostic out there.

DriveSkill

MuppetCheck wrote: »

How long is the delay between it turning over and starting?

Well it's more that it doesn't start at all the first times and then eventually when you push the start button it starts so it not like its turning over trying to start each time

DriveSkill

Avns1s wrote: »

Is it under warranty?

Yes - still under original 2 year warranty and there is an extended warranty for another year. I only have the car since Friday so I'm was beginning to wonder was I losing it completely and missing something basic in getting it to start!

Avns1s

DriveSkill wrote: »

Yes - still under original 2 year warranty and there is an extended warranty for another year. I only have the car since Friday so I'm was beginning to wonder was I losing it completely and missing something basic in getting it to start!

Well, you know what to do with it so. Back to BMW! I have an F10 and it starts instantly every time.

bmstuff

DriveSkill wrote: »

Well it's more that it doesn't start at all the first times and then eventually when you push the start button it starts so it not like its turning over trying to start each time

What are you saying? You need to press the start button to start the car right, press the clutch or brake pedal too.

DriveSkill

Avns1s wrote: »

Well, you know what to do with it so. Back to BMW! I have an F10 and it starts instantly every time.

Agree - slight issue is I bought in Galway and I'm in cork. I know it is still covered but would just be easier if I could call back to the dealer I bought from.

BorneTobyWilde

You press a button for it to start? And when you press that button in morning nothing happens, car does not turn over
Then eventually a connection is made by press button and car turns over and starts fine?

DriveSkill

bmstuff wrote: »

What are you saying? You need to press the start button to start the car right, press the clutch or brake pedal too.

It's an auto - need to have foot on the brake when pushing the start button for it to start.

BorneTobyWilde

Maybe its heating the plugs? before it starts so nothing happens,
Does it have plugs ? I dunno, Is the delay normal?

coolisin

The last model IDrive gives a warning about battery charge being low.
So I'd say the newer one would.

I'd be back to bmw with as its under warranty.

DriveSkill

coolisin wrote: »

The last model IDrive gives a warning about battery charge being low.
So I'd say the newer one would.

I'd be back to bmw with as its under warranty.

That's what I was thinking - I just hope it's logging faults somewhere on the times it won't start as once it starts it seems to run perfectly and stop/start for the rest of the day. If I take it to the garage there will most likely be no obvious symptoms ...

Avns1s

DriveSkill wrote: »

Agree - slight issue is I bought in Galway and I'm in cork. I know it is still covered but would just be easier if I could call back to the dealer I bought from.

You can bring it to any BMW dealer to avail of the BMW warranty. Pick your closest and book it in with them.

bmstuff

DriveSkill wrote: »

It's an auto - need to have foot on the brake when pushing the start button for it to start.

Yeah sure I know but but I was confused with your answer which was basically saying your car starts after you press the start button...

DriveSkill

bmstuff wrote: »

Yeah sure I know but but I was confused with your answer which was basically saying your car starts after you press the start button...

Ok, so basically what has happened for last 2 mornings is get in, foot on brake, push start and dash lights up, radio comes on etc but engine does not start. Its behaves exactly as if you dont have foot on the brake. Push start/stop again and all electrics shut down - car is effectively off. Eventually after doing this sequence a few times the engine will finally start when button is pressed. From then on you can stop and start it without problem it seems. I can't find any difference between what I do the final time when it starts vs all the other attempts when it doesn't start!

Hence I was thinking some sensor on the brake pedal may be the problem but don't understand why it only fails on the first start and seemingly never again during the day.

I initially thought it might not be picking up the key (it's a keyless start so no keyhole of any type, just have it on you) but tried it with the key in the house and it gives specific message that key not found so its not that,

Will see tomorrow and probably book it in for a diagnostic check anyway either way.

DriveSkill

Just a quick update - this morning it started on the second attempt :-)

I think it is down to the pressure on the brake pedal, I was deliberately light on the first attempt this morning and it didnt start and then much heavier second time and it started no problem - the strange thing is after it starts once, then you can be light on the brake and it seems happy with that so again its only the first start you need to put the pressure on....

I wonder does the brake fluid pressure drop overnight or something (dont even know if that makes sense!) - I know the brake pedal definitely 'feels' a little different between when the car is running and when its not and obviously when the handbrake is applied the pedal 'moves in'.

glic71rods46t0

DriveSkill wrote: »

Just a quick update - this morning it started on the second attempt :-)

I think it is down to the pressure on the brake pedal, I was deliberately light on the first attempt this morning and it didnt start and then much heavier second time and it started no problem - the strange thing is after it starts once, then you can be light on the brake and it seems happy with that so again its only the first start you need to put the pressure on....

I wonder does the brake fluid pressure drop overnight or something (dont even know if that makes sense!) - I know the brake pedal definitely 'feels' a little different between when the car is running and when its not and obviously when the handbrake is applied the pedal 'moves in'.

Just wondering if its actually a problem sensing your key fob? I know in my wife's F10 (also a 2011, owned from new) you sometimes get the car failing to sense the keyfob. I normally leave it in the ashtray but very occasionally you have to wave it by the steering column for the sensors to pick it up. Anyways this probably has nothing to do with your problem but just thought I'd mention it so that it can be discounted

Edit: sorry I see you have already discounted this!

BorneTobyWilde

Sounds like a temp sensor ,

Victor Meldrew

DriveSkill wrote: »

Just a quick update - this morning it started on the second attempt :-)

I think it is down to the pressure on the brake pedal,

Neutral / park safety switch on transmission selector lever (shifter)? Very common reason for intermittent "no start, but no problem once running" faults on Automatics?

This car has one, like all Autos. Next time it acts the maggot. wriggle the shifter and press the park button and wriggle it through PRND and back into P?

DriveSkill

Called into the BMW garage at lunch and had a mechanic have a look at it. All indications are its just down to pressure on the brake and its possible that sometimes it will require a little more force depending on the vacuum or for example if the brake is pumped a few times the pedal becomes rock hard.

At the end of day its probably something that I wont even think about after a week or two and will just do automatically - in general I think I have a light touch on the brakes :-)

His advice was to keep an eye on it, take more notice of the pressure required and if it does seem to need excessive pressure then bring it back but he couldnt find any issue.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Nissan doctor

Its the brake pedal switch that allows the car to start so the vacuum pressure etc etc has nothing to do with it. Once its pressed enough for your brake lights to come on, which is only failry light pressure, then it will start.

How long are you waiting after pressing the start button before pressing it off again? On diesel cars with push button start there will always be a pause after you press the button when they are cold before anything happens. Its the electronics waiting for the glow plug temperature to come up and making sure that fuel pressure etc is ok before turning. How long the pause is depends on the outside temperature and the engine temperature. Which would explain why it fires on the button for the rest of the day when both engine and ambiante temperatures are higher then first thing in the morning.