HR shafting me, how do i get a positive outcome??

ruxpin82

Hi all,

I work in the UK for a very large global company,
I joined over 4 years ago as an hourly paid employee, and got on very well, two years into the job, my manager left his position so I applied and was successful, therefore becoming a salary employee, doing a supervisory/management role , looking after a small dept. with 3 guys reporting to me, and looking after a specific cost center.


To give some background, in this company, the payscale is as follows:

• you have pay grades with a number of tiers within the grade.
• hourly people were grade 4 with potential for lots of overtime,
• then it skips to salary grades of 6, 7, 8, and then Professional expert level
• to give an example, grade 8 is 30k plus and would be supervisory/management level or product specialist level, a reasonably good number basically, as you would advance up the tiers within the grade to eventually get near 40k, plus bonuses.

In this company they have a policy whereby, when an hourly guy gets a salary job, he doesn't immediately get the assigned salary grade for that job, he has to do maybe 6mths on grade 6, then a year on grade 7, then finally, he gets the grade 8, or what ever it is.

This is what I had to do, as my current job is a grade 8.
This policy doesn't exactly incentivise you to advance yourself, as most grade 4 hourlys have a lower basic, but make much more in Overtime, in effect, I took a £10k pay cut to get to where I am now......

So, to the point of this post,
one of the hourly guys who works for me, recently applied for a salary job listed as "grade 7 or 8 depending on experience", and was successful.

He rang me up to ask advice on the offer HR made to him, and it turns out they offered him to start on the top tier of grade 7, without requirement to do a period on grade 6 at all, which(because of a certain element of overlap between the grades) means his starting basic is £6k more than what i'm on now.....as i'm on a low grade 8.

To be clear, this job he applied for is not a managerial job, does not require him to supervise or manage anyone, does not require him to manage a cost center, it is a trainer job.
It is certainly not above my position in terms of anything...
..and his experience is reasonable, but does not justify this kind of offer, by any measure.

After learning this, I feel totally exploited, and feel my own position is untenable, as I work extremely hard and give a huge part of my life to this company, as there is still lots of travel involved.

It seems HR have broken the traditional process of how an hourly paid worker goes on to a salary job (which isn't a bad thing), but what am I to do now, knowing this???
It seems the balance and equilibrium of things is totally out of line now.
I feel that, unless something happens, I have to leave.

I spoke to my manager and she is looking into it, but I would like some advice on how to handle this so my situation can be improved. I know a negative, cynical attitude is not the best way to get a result from HR

all advice, comments and opinions welcome,
Am I even right to feel this way????
I'm a 31yr old guy, my employee in question is 28, and to be clear, would be leaving the exact same job within the company that I was doing 2 yrs ago, before I took the job I'm in now, therefore his experience within the company would have been the same as mine.

The_Conductor

Just to be clear- you were satisfied with your situation until you learnt that this individual was being treated in a different manner to the way you were?

Times change. HR rules are interpreted differently by different people. Jobs change. This person is lucky, and got offered better terms than you were offered. You were perfectly happy until you learnt what they were offered. Now- because he has been treated more favourably than you, you believe your position to be untenable?

Your position is exactly the same as it was previously- and if its untenable, its only in your interpretation of the more favourable terms your colleague managed to secure.

I think you'd be crazy to even consider leaving, purely because someone else got better terms than you did- but thats a decision you're going to have to make yourself.

Life isn't fair- and this isn't going to the first or last experience you have of it. You may not have a cushy number- but you were happy until you discovered what someone else had. Be happy for your colleague.

ruxpin82

Thanks for your quick response.
I am happy for my employee and told him to grab it with both hands, but it is still unjust.
I see your point totally and am aware how futile going to HR bitching about this is,
that is why I want to handle this in a positive way.
But do you not agree that pay should also relate to the amount of responsibility the job requires, such as people management and cost center management (this is one part of my job, there are other totally different elements to it).

To me, these points should carry more weight than a job than doesn't have these added responsibilities, especially when my job is on a higher grade anyway???
This is where the whole HR argument fall down for me,
in doing this, the balance and scale of roles is now all over the place???

i'm trying to be positive about this so I can form a sound argument when I try to justify an increase

Wanderer2010

It sounds like you should just accept the situation, OP. I can see where you are coming from in terms of the money but you never know, this new person may struggle with the job, have trouble getting on with key people etc. Its just a reality of working life that other people who dont have your skillset may get higher up in the ladder, I wouldnt dream of leaving for this one reason. Stick with it and you may be in a better position a year from now, I think HR will see any complaints from this issue as a triviality.

Mrs OBumble

ruxpin82 wrote: »

But do you not agree that pay should also relate to the amount of responsibility the job requires, such as people management and cost center management

No, I don't agree.

Labour markets are about supply and demand.

Rewards can be cash, and can be other things.

You need to balance up how much "reward" you're getting from the job, and compare it to the rewards you can get from a job with another company.

Grandpa Hassan

It would be very rare in a salaried job that there is a prescribed salary for that particular level of seniority / responsiblity. Likely there is a band, in many cases quite a broad one, and the position of a new entrant on that band is a function of supply & demand. The bands between grades likely overlap as well, so the situation you descibe in not only possible, but common.

Nothing you can do directly. That's just how things work.

What you can do is to maintain the dialogue with your boss / HR on very polite and constructive terms, (ie. not bitching!) and then try to leverage that situation to get you a raise at annual review time

skeg16

It depends......

If you love your job then stick it for another while, wait unit/if the annual bonuses/rises come along and see if you are satisfied, if not, take it up with them, explain the situation and try to get them to reason with your side.

On the other hand, if you hate your job and this is going to be constantly eating at you then I would raise the issue with HR now, if things don't go in your favor then its time to start looking elsewhere.

Its not going to be easy, its an awkward situation what ever way you look at it but IMO if it was me, that would really affect my thinking of the company's ethics/morale's and my work ethic....why should you be doing a more senior role and be getting less than the new kid who doesn't have the same qualifications/experience.

ruxpin82

skeg16 wrote: »

It depends......

that would really affect my thinking of the company's ethics/morale's and my work ethic....why should you be doing a more senior role and be getting less than the new kid who doesn't have the same qualifications/experience.

Exactly how I feel, thank you for putting it so clearly.
My life revolves around this job, due to the amount of travel abroad involved.
I really like many aspects of the job, but now feel cheated and undervalued. I feel that my level of dedication will have to reduce significantly if this is how I am treated.

The_Conductor

I just don't get it- you were perfectly happy- until this person told you the terms they were being offered- and now all of a sudden, you're unappreciated, your job is devalued, you feel you're being shafted.

This is precisely why most companies don't publicise the salaries they pay their staff.

Its entirely usual for differences to occur.

Nothing has changed here, aside from your feelings about the company.

You seem to have some totally unrealistic and unreasonable idea of what a company is- and what its obligations towards its employees are.

This guy got better terms than you- thats life. If you want to go ballistic about how good the terms are that he got- thats you're perogative- but you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Grandpa Hassan

ruxpin82 wrote: »

Exactly how I feel, thank you for putting it so clearly.
My life revolves around this job, due to the amount of travel abroad involved.
I really like many aspects of the job, but now feel cheated and undervalued. I feel that my level of dedication will have to reduce significantly if this is how I am treated.

I know you can't help how you feel, but you are being overly sensitive here. This just how things work. It's not personal! Salaries are not generally prescriptive for any particular level of seniority; rather operate in wide bands, which often overlap with other levels.

I recently recruited on my team, and my new joiner, who is younger and less experienced than some existing team members is getting a higher salary. The seniority, responsibility, working hour expectations are all the same, but the market and the supply / demand dynamic had changed. And she negotiated well. I don't value her (at least at this stage) any more or less than anyone else on the team.

Like The Conductor said, this is why salaries are not publicised. You shouldn't take it personally. You seem to think that it is an intentional affront to you

No Pants

I see where you're coming from, the psychological contract has been damaged. However, I leave it be until review time rather than make an issue of it. Unless you're unhappy in general and this is just feeding that.

the culture of deference

Find a new job then give the company an ultimatum. This will eat away at you if you do nothing.

skeg16

The_Conductor wrote: »

I just don't get it- you were perfectly happy- until this person told you the terms they were being offered- and now all of a sudden, you're unappreciated, your job is devalued, you feel you're being shafted.

You seem to have some totally unrealistic and unreasonable idea of what a company is- and what its obligations towards its employees are.

Its perfectly normal for him to feel this way. What your saying is true and this is the life we live in whereby some people can go their whole life working to the bone and get feck all for it, others just draw the dole, what can ya do....

IMO if he has the experience/knowledge he should go looking else where, its a big bad world out there , no need to have it eating at him forever more

Phantasos

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I recently recruited on my team, and my new joiner, who is younger and less experienced than some existing team members is getting a higher salary. The seniority, responsibility, working hour expectations are all the same, but the market and the supply / demand dynamic had changed. And she negotiated well.

Can I ask you how one negotiates on salary? It always feels like something I've no say on, or feel I can't negotiate on without blowing my chances.

eimsRV

Phantasos wrote: »

Can I ask you how one negotiates on salary? It always feels like something I've no say on, or feel I can't negotiate on without blowing my chances.

I recently changed roles. I opened the negotiations on my "offer" by expressing satisfaction with the overall package, however the base salary was only slightly higher then what I was leaving, plus I was losing 3 days holidays per yr. I didn't want to just ask for a higher salary, so I asked them to explain what the expected salary curve would be over the next 12/18 months. We started discussions, they then came back with a 7% increase on the base salary.

ruxpin82

The_Conductor wrote: »

I just don't get it- you were perfectly happy- until this person told you the terms they were being offered- and now all of a sudden, you're unappreciated, your job is devalued, you feel you're being shafted.

This is precisely why most companies don't publicise the salaries they pay their staff.

Its entirely usual for differences to occur.

Nothing has changed here, aside from your feelings about the company.

You seem to have some totally unrealistic and unreasonable idea of what a company is- and what its obligations towards its employees are.

This guy got better terms than you- thats life. If you want to go ballistic about how good the terms are that he got- thats you're perogative- but you are shooting yourself in the foot.

My issue is this,

up to now there was a reasonably level playing field for employees jumping from hourly to salary, you change to salary and you have to go through the same process of grade 6, 7 for a period, and then the actual grade,
( I will also point out that if a position was filled by a person from outside the company, they get the actual grade for the job immediately, considering that person would be an unknown quantity, it seems a strange way to treat internal staff trying to better themselves, but that's a different story...)

considering I took a £10k paycut to "advance" myself, due to not earning overtime anymore, and being told that "everyone has to go through this process to get on in the company, I signed the dotted line reluctantly (and after refusing two previous offers) thinking these are the rules and this is the only way.

To now learn that these rules didn't apply to this guy for what ever reason, to actually realise there are no rules, to learn that his offer is 20% higher than mine, on a lower grade.....is this not reason enough to go ballistic?
I manage a dept, but earn the least
I worked an additional 700+ unpaid hours last year, +22 paid weekend days
I carry all the responsibility,
I have an employee going to a lower grade job, but on £6000 more than me.

you find it difficult to understand how my outlook has changed???

the_syco

ruxpin82 wrote: »

My issue is this,

up to now there was a reasonably level playing field for employees jumping from hourly to salary

Correction; "up to now I THOUGHT there was a reasonably level playing field for employees jumping from hourly to salary".

ruxpin82 wrote: »

I manage a dept, but earn the least

When was the last time you looked for a pay increase, or is there ever pay increases?

ruxpin82 wrote: »

I worked an additional 700+ unpaid hours last year, +22 paid weekend days

As the saying goes "he who works for free will never be bored". Unfortunately, why should they pay you if you'll do it for free anyway? You actually set a bad precedent for yourself doing this.

ruxpin82 wrote: »

I carry all the responsibility,

Are you saying that there is no-one above you?

ruxpin82 wrote: »

I have an employee going to a lower grade job, but on £6000 more than me.

You manage people; get used to managing people who get paid more than you do, as their job will involve making the company more money.

No Pants

ruxpin82 wrote: »

I worked an additional 700+ unpaid hours last year, +22 paid weekend days

Seriously? And you wonder why you're not getting salary increases? Cut this out, you're working an extra job for free. If you don't have time to get your stuff done, flag that to your manager and start going home on time.

Sometimes I work extra hours, but sometimes I want a few hours off to do something. It's give and take and it only works if both parties are flexible.

Phantasos

You seem to be under the impression that working hard will reap rewards. In the real world, it doesn't work out like that at all.

It's fine to put in the extra hour or two on a demanding week, but outside of that you should be getting paid for overtime. You've clearly shown them that you'll happily take on extra work free of charge - why should they pay you any more? You sounded like the perfect person to promote, as you never questioned the salary scale and work yourself to the bone. You're essentially worse off with more responsibility, which is ridiculous.

You'll have to chalk this up to experience. If you don't stand up for yourself, you'll be walked all over. The guy that got the salary increase got it because he's able to talk up and stand up for himself. It's time you stuck to your contract hours/responsibilities, and demanded overtime for extra hours. Ironically, you'll probably end up looking bad for doing that now!

If you look for another job, don't be a doormat. Nobody will thank you for it.