Is it more profitable to kill young

locky76

I bought a few angus heifers off my neighbour and it got me thinking...
For the AAA angus scheme you have to keep the cattle in your herd a minimum of 100 days.
I could buy bullocks off my neighbour around the 380kgs mark in early March, he normally sells them at the mart, this year they made €1.85 per kg but for this purpose I'll put them at €2 per kg, €760 each.
If you kept them for the 100 days and put them onto 6 kgs per head for the last 8 weeks I would expect them to gain 120kgs over the 100 days and also to be above the minimum weight (230kgs), in the correct conformation (U+ to O=) and fat score (2+ to 4+) for the AAA bonus.
This would have them at 500kgs live weight with a deadweight of 275kgs.
With a base price of €4.50 along with the AAA bonus of 40c and the bord bia of 12c you're looking at a price of €5.02 per kg- this will give a overall price of €1,380.
Your expenses would be cost of the animal (€760), 8 weeks of meal at 6 kgs per head (336kgs at €320 per tonne is €108) plus €100 per head for grazing costs etc. Total cost is €968
This is a profit of €412 for a 100 day stay on the farm.
If there are any glaring errors in this please let me know...
The one i can see myself is if the cattle grade an O or if they get overfat but I've killed a good few of my neighbours dairy bred angus at this stage and I get the most of them to an R and the correct fat score...

Floody Boreland

If there are any glaring errors in this please let me know...

The fact you have posted this.

Now every SOB will be buying these little AAs pushing initial costs sky high.

Wait a few years for them to get burnt then QUIETLY start again.



but maybe you are a milk man with an AA bull..in that case top marks for deviousness:)

leg wax

was only talking about aa scam yesterday,the % of cattle that are getting full payment is meant to be very small,any one know the figure.

locky76

leg wax wrote: »

was only talking about aa scam yesterday,the % of cattle that are getting full payment is meant to be very small,any one know the figure.

maybe i'm naive but how is it a scam, I killed cattle for the summer bonus and everything went as planned, I've some booked in for the winter bonus now...

leg wax

locky76 wrote: »

maybe i'm naive but how is it a scam, I killed cattle for the summer bonus and everything went as planned, I've some booked in for the winter bonus now...

sorry could not spell scheme:D:D

tim04750

Dairy bred AA bullocks , can you get them to do 1.2 kgs/day ? Honest question.

locky76

tim04750 wrote: »

Dairy bred AA bullocks , can you get them to do 1.2 kgs/day ? Honest question.

prime spring grazing and 6 kgs of meal for the last 8 weeks I'd be very disappointed if they didn't. Angus, whitehead & freisan dairy bred yearlings I bought in that are on grass alone have averaged 1.6 kgs a head over the last 6 weeks

epfff

locky76 wrote: »

prime spring grazing and 6 kgs of meal for the last 8 weeks I'd be very disappointed if they didn't. Angus, whitehead & freisan dairy bred yearlings I bought in that are on grass alone have averaged 1.6 kgs a head over the last 6 weeks

Jesus
ur some man to get that sorta thrive this cold wet spring
I'm at simular here but can't get the colour of that thrive On 5kegs meal and new grass
the only prob I see with original plan is I don't think that sorta thrive is possiable

pakalasa

locky76 wrote: »

..Angus, whitehead & freisan dairy bred yearlings I bought in that are on grass alone have averaged 1.6 kgs a head over the last 6 weeks

Isuppose it depends on what base you are working from. Were these these very low on condition to begin with?

Viewtodiefor

locky76 wrote: »

I bought a few angus heifers off my neighbour and it got me thinking...
For the AAA angus scheme you have to keep the cattle in your herd a minimum of 100 days.
I could buy bullocks off my neighbour around the 380kgs mark in early March, he normally sells them at the mart, this year they made €1.85 per kg but for this purpose I'll put them at €2 per kg, €760 each.
If you kept them for the 100 days and put them onto 6 kgs per head for the last 8 weeks I would expect them to gain 120kgs over the 100 days and also to be above the minimum weight (230kgs), in the correct conformation (U+ to O=) and fat score (2+ to 4+) for the AAA bonus.
This would have them at 500kgs live weight with a deadweight of 275kgs.
With a base price of €4.50 along with the AAA bonus of 40c and the bord bia of 12c you're looking at a price of €5.02 per kg- this will give a overall price of €1,380.
Your expenses would be cost of the animal (€760), 8 weeks of meal at 6 kgs per head (336kgs at €320 per tonne is €108) plus €100 per head for grazing costs etc. Total cost is €968
This is a profit of €412 for a 100 day stay on the farm.
If there are any glaring errors in this please let me know...
The one i can see myself is if the cattle grade an O or if they get overfat but I've killed a good few of my neighbours dairy bred angus at this stage and I get the most of them to an R and the correct fat score...

Dairy bred Aa cross bullocks. Ur figures are way too optimistic, grading will be a problem o's at best of dairy cows unless they are exceptional bf cows, putting on 1.2 Kgs a day is highly unlikely + ur depending on getting a large part of ur profit from bonus payments which may not materialize , rethink it I'd say

locky76

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Dairy bred Aa cross bullocks. Ur figures are way too optimistic, grading will be a problem o's at best of dairy cows unless they are exceptional bf cows, putting on 1.2 Kgs a day is highly unlikely + ur depending on getting a large part of ur profit from bonus payments which may not materialize , rethink it I'd say

Worst case scenario keep them longer and kill for the Winter bonus, I've crunched the numbers and it still stacks up anyway with 0.8kgs per day up to December.

locky76

epfff wrote: »

Jesus
ur some man to get that sorta thrive this cold wet spring
I'm at simular here but can't get the colour of that thrive On 5kegs meal and new grass
the only prob I see with original plan is I don't think that sorta thrive is possiable

pakalasa wrote: »

Isuppose it depends on what base you are working from. Were these these very low on condition to begin with?

I wieghed the 2012 yearlings at the end April and again last week, below are the figures:
Home bred Angus
Average DOB: 22nd May 2012, Opening Weight: 350kgs, ADLWG over six week period- 1.95kgs per day
Bought in Angus Heifers
Average DOB: 17th March 2012, Opening Weight: 368kgs, ADLWG over six week period- 1.58kgs per day
Bought in Whitehead Heifers
Average DOB: 9th April 2012, Opening Weight: 316kgs, ADLWG over six week period- 1.9kgs per day
Bought in Freisan Bullocks
Average DOB: 20th February 2012, Opening Weight: 375kgs, ADLWG over six week period- 1.83kgs per day
I suppose what drove a lot of this weight gain was the super compensatory growth after the shocking performance through the difficult spring

bob charles

locky76 wrote: »

I wieghed the 2012 yearlings at the end April and again last week, below are the figures:
Home bred Angus
Average DOB: 22nd May 2012, Opening Weight: 350kgs, ADLWG over six week period- 1.95kgs per day
Bought in Angus Heifers
Average DOB: 17th March 2012, Opening Weight: 368kgs, ADLWG over six week period- 1.58kgs per day
Bought in Whitehead Heifers
Average DOB: 9th April 2012, Opening Weight: 316kgs, ADLWG over six week period- 1.9kgs per day
Bought in Freisan Bullocks
Average DOB: 20th February 2012, Opening Weight: 375kgs, ADLWG over six week period- 1.83kgs per day
I suppose what drove a lot of this weight gain was the super compensatory growth after the shocking performance through the difficult spring

you bought the cattle empty, and weighted them full. Considering they wouldn't do any weight gain for the first 10days all your animals are doing over and well over some of them 2kgs a day given the figures. Are you sure you divided by the right amount of days?

If it works for you, then get stuck in

locky76

bob charles wrote: »

you bought the cattle empty, and weighted them full. Considering they wouldn't do any weight gain for the first 10days all your animals are doing over and well over some of them 2kgs a day given the figures. Are you sure you divided by the right amount of days?

If it works for you, then get stuck in

the figures are correct alright bob, I wintered all bar the angus heifers myself, I bought them this spring. The ground here is good fattening land, I'll get stuck in next year, no Mon, no fun at the moment I'm afraid...

tvo

just on the AAA bonus asits based on min 50 cattle killed per year how is it paid i.e. is it paid on every animal as they are killed or on all animals once you have 50 killed

Damo810

Would have a few bullocks and heifers like that now, dairy bred AAX, BBX, HEX and SIMX. About 350KG 13-14months old. Dya think there would be a place in the factory for them at 18 months? Or would a man be better off heading to the mart with them in August/September time?

1chippy

Id say bring them to the mart, they wouldnt be anywhere near ready in aug/sep. Maybe throw a kilo of meal to them between now and then and they should be in good enough condition to sell on. For any of you lads finishing what would be a realistic time schedule to feed them on to finish. would it be possable to have them fit for March?

mf240

Ya theyd be fit in march but would have eaten a nice bit of ration. Thats assuming they are well grown by shed time.

Damo810

1chippy wrote: »

Id say bring them to the mart, they wouldnt be anywhere near ready in aug/sep. Maybe throw a kilo of meal to them between now and then and they should be in good enough condition to sell on. For any of you lads finishing what would be a realistic time schedule to feed them on to finish. would it be possable to have them fit for March?

Would have thought that alright. He's got the idea in his head, getting it out will be the hard part now as I can't see him keeping them over the winter. Silage ground is bare enough yet :P

What weight would ye say they'd want to be going into the factory? 500KG?

bob charles

Damo810 wrote: »

Would have a few bullocks and heifers like that now, dairy bred AAX, BBX, HEX and SIMX. About 350KG 13-14months old. Dya think there would be a place in the factory for them at 18 months? Or would a man be better off heading to the mart with them in August/September time?

depends on the animals, if they had a touch on them you could put them finishing in 2 - 3 months time. AA and He maybe sooner. I bought a bunch of aa last week circa 390kgs and will be out the gap within 3 months. Wont be big weights but will be finished as after that time they will only be laying fat and are calves from last spring but have being minded well by previous owner

locky76

Damo810 wrote: »

Would have a few bullocks and heifers like that now, dairy bred AAX, BBX, HEX and SIMX. About 350KG 13-14months old. Dya think there would be a place in the factory for them at 18 months? Or would a man be better off heading to the mart with them in August/September time?

These bullocks illustrate my point exactly- is it more profitable to try and finish them yourself before year end than sell them as stores for somebody else to finish them in June 2014???
If they are 15 months old i would expect them to be 400kgs live weight (450 days at 0.8kgs per day + 40kgs birth weight). Selling them in Septemeber they would gain another 70kgs. So a dairy bred 470kgs bullocks in Septemebr would make ~€900 max...
If you introduced meal in August at 450kgs and fed them on for 10 weeks I would espect them to gain 100kgs- 550kgs, at a killout of 55% you're looking at a deadweight of 300kgs and at current prices- €4.55 base + 12c (bord bia) = €4.67, which is €1,400.
This is an extra €500 for keeping the animals an extra month to 6 weeks and feeding them 420kgs meal (10 weeks at 6kg per head), €135 of meal.

bob charles

locky76 wrote: »

These bullocks illustrate my point exactly- is it more profitable to try and finish them yourself before year end than sell them as stores for somebody else to finish them in June 2014???
If they are 15 months old i would expect them to be 400kgs live weight (450 days at 0.8kgs per day + 40kgs birth weight). Selling them in Septemeber they would gain another 70kgs. So a dairy bred 470kgs bullocks in Septemebr would make ~€900 max...
If you introduced meal in August at 450kgs and fed them on for 10 weeks I would espect them to gain 100kgs- 550kgs, at a killout of 55% you're looking at a deadweight of 300kgs and at current prices- €4.55 base + 12c (bord bia) = €4.67, which is €1,400.
This is an extra €500 for keeping the animals an extra month to 6 weeks and feeding them 420kgs meal (10 weeks at 6kg per head), €135 of meal.

@ base price of €4.55 :rolleyes: in the back end, and @ a ko of 55% (aax & hex).

locky76

bob charles wrote: »

@ base price of €4.55 :rolleyes: in the back end, and @ a ko of 55% (aax & hex).

still enough margin in there... and if the base price slips the mart price will slip also.. Just my tuppence worth

manjou

The mininum weight they want the carcase is 230kg which is about 460 liveweight so if they are fat enough at this weight you could kill them no need to get higher weights by putting in shed and feeding expensive rations and silage when they could be gone of grass smaller cheque but more profit.Got 3 away last sept at 285 kg at 16 months came into 1200 each no meal just grass.

locky76

But will meal not bring them up a grade and fat score as well as gaining more weight, I.e. will giving them €100 of meal cause their value to increase by more than €100?

manjou wrote: »

The mininum weight they want the carcase is 230kg which is about 460 liveweight so if they are fat enough at this weight you could kill them no need to get higher weights by putting in shed and feeding expensive rations and silage when they could be gone of grass smaller cheque but more profit.Got 3 away last sept at 285 kg at 16 months came into 1200 each no meal just grass.

Helpmefarm

Tell me please lads is it 50 or 30 the minimum you need to finish for the scheme?

locky76

Helpmefarm wrote: »

Tell me please lads is it 50 or 30 the minimum you need to finish for the scheme?

20 if you're a suckler farmer or 50 if you're buying in...

Helpmefarm

How much of goodish land would ya need to finish 50 a year buying them in round 330kg mark? Sorry for the stupid questions I'm new to this lark!

locky76

Helpmefarm wrote: »

How much of goodish land would ya need to finish 50 a year buying them in round 330kg mark? Sorry for the stupid questions I'm new to this lark!

when are you buying them? When are you finishing them? Do you need to stop silage ground? How heavy do you want to fertilise? What type of land & grass have you?

Sam Kade

Helpmefarm wrote: »

How much of goodish land would ya need to finish 50 a year buying them in round 330kg mark? Sorry for the stupid questions I'm new to this lark!

To finish them off grass you would need to buy them at 370kg+ in March and give them a long grazing season up to November. You would need 35 acres at least.

Good loser

manjou wrote: »

The mininum weight they want the carcase is 230kg which is about 460 liveweight so if they are fat enough at this weight you could kill them no need to get higher weights by putting in shed and feeding expensive rations and silage when they could be gone of grass smaller cheque but more profit.Got 3 away last sept at 285 kg at 16 months came into 1200 each no meal just grass.

Any heifers I've killed in the last few years have come out at 50% of fresh weight.

The same for a lorry load of FR bullocks (no R or U).

Helpmefarm

I've 27 acres at the mo but hav more land available if I take it of lease from my uncle!
Is the hereford scheme the same numbers?