Can we clamp cars on private property?

Koni

Can you clamp cars on a private property? Say we would not be looking for a fees to be paid, just to try to teach people not to park in the place.

We are in the middle of the town and place was empty for over 10 years and people used to park there. We have now put sign and posts to inform people. But even if you tell them some of them gets very aggressive and just leave the car and go.

We can't be running the business with our car park full of cars we can't move. They also could be blocking the entrance to the unit.

What are our options in this situation?

Big Nasty

NCPS have been doing it for years..................

MrDerp

Put up a big sign saying cars will be clamped, and do nothing for a couple of weeks. If the problem persists then contact ncps, who'll be only too happy to come up with a system for enforcing against abuse of your parking

Bigcheeze

I suppose you could start by putting notices on car windows for a few weeks that it's a warning and next time they'll be clamped. If you're running a business in a small town you have to strike a balance between preventing abuse of the car park and alienating the local population/customers.

Robbo

In before someone misquotes the section of the Road Traffic Act about interfering with vehicles, devoid of context or knowledge of Contract law.

Dord

You can. Whether you should or not is a different story.

Del2005

Koni wrote: »

Can you clamp cars on a private property? Say we would not be looking for a fees to be paid, just to try to teach people not to park in the place.

We are in the middle of the town and place was empty for over 10 years and people used to park there. We have now put sign and posts to inform people. But even if you tell them some of them gets very aggressive and just leave the car and go.

We can't be running the business with our car park full of cars we can't move. They also could be blocking the entrance to the unit.

What are our options in this situation?

You could always just double park behind illegally parked cars, it is you property and people may be less annoyed with being blocked in than clamped.

MrDerp wrote: »

Put up a big sign saying cars will be clamped, and do nothing for a couple of weeks. If the problem persists then contact ncps, who'll be only too happy to come up with a system for enforcing against abuse of your parking

Do ncps clamp for free?

K.Flyer

Del2005 wrote: »

....
Do ncps clamp for free?

No, its a business that they run, not a charity.

goz83

K.Flyer wrote: »

No, its a business that they run, not a charity.

I think the question was "do they charge the company, or just the person who illegally parked?"

K.Flyer

Koni wrote: »

Can you clamp cars on a private property? Say we would not be looking for a fees to be paid, just to try to teach people not to park in the place.

We are in the middle of the town and place was empty for over 10 years and people used to park there. We have now put sign and posts to inform people. But even if you tell them some of them gets very aggressive and just leave the car and go.

We can't be running the business with our car park full of cars we can't move. They also could be blocking the entrance to the unit.

What are our options in this situation?

Heres a suggestion that someone I know who had a similar problem did...
Get good clear signage made up, make it similar to the clamping firms, go and buy 3 or 4 decent looking clamps.
Put up the warning signs and leave for a few days, after a few days park some of the staff cars in prominant positions near the entramce with your newly purchased clamps stuck to their wheels, so anyone coming in can see them clearly. Change the cars and positions each morning to make it look good.
It worked well for their carpak, signage is still up and the clamps are left out as a warning and business has improved because their customers have better parking facilities.

Quazzie

Robbo wrote: »

In before someone misquotes the section of the Road Traffic Act about interfering with vehicles, devoid of context or knowledge of Contract law.

Would you care to educate us instead of making obnoxious posts?

K.Flyer

goz83 wrote: »

I think the question was "do they charge the company, or just the person who illegally parked?"

Sorry I missunderstood...

The clampers charge the offenders directly to release the clamp.
In most cases their are no fees to the land owners as the clamp companies makes their money from the release fees.

Del2005

Quazzie wrote: »

Would you care to educate us instead of making obnoxious posts?

Here's a link

K.Flyer wrote: »

Sorry I missunderstood...

The clampers charge the offenders directly to release the clamp.
In most cases their are no fees to the land owners as the clamp companies makes their money from the release fees.

Sorry I meant are the company the clamping is being done charged.

mgbgt1978

Robbo wrote: »

In before someone misquotes the section of the Road Traffic Act about interfering with vehicles, devoid of context or knowledge of Contract law.

As Leo Varadksr has felt the need to introduce legislation surrounding this very matter, part of which WILL make it legal for 'authorised persons' (clampers) to place clamps on vehicles in public places (but not public roads), surely that would indicate that until such legislation is in place it is AT PRESENT illegal for anybody to interfere with a car in a public place.

guttenberg

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

As Leo Varadksr has felt the need to introduce legislation surrounding this very matter, part of which WILL make it legal for 'authorised persons' (clampers) to place clamps on vehicles in public places (but not public roads), surely that would indicate that until such legislation is in place it is AT PRESENT illegal for anybody to interfere with a car in a public place.

Or that it is currently a legal grey area and he thinks there is a need for a clearer definition of what is allowed and what isn't?

goz83

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

As Leo Varadksr has felt the need to introduce legislation surrounding this very matter, part of which WILL make it legal for 'authorised persons' (clampers) to place clamps on vehicles in public places (but not public roads), surely that would indicate that until such legislation is in place it is AT PRESENT illegal for anybody to interfere with a car in a public place.

I think what Leo really sees here is an opportunity to introduce a nice little licensing fee to line some pockets....or so the cynic in me says.

Del2005

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

As Leo Varadksr has felt the need to introduce legislation surrounding this very matter, part of which WILL make it legal for 'authorised persons' (clampers) to place clamps on vehicles in public places (but not public roads), surely that would indicate that until such legislation is in place it is AT PRESENT illegal for anybody to interfere with a car in a public place.

If it's illegal to clamp how this person was fined €550 for removing one? The current situation of it being semi legal with no regulation is what he's going after not making it illegal, don't forget regulation means money for the regulators...

dr.fuzzenstein

OP, clamp the bastards. I have an absolute hatred for people who think that the world is their playground, ATM, bin and toilet and they can do what they like without consequences.
The longer I'm here, the more I appreciate coming from a country where rules count for something and people not only respect them, but also tell people off who don't. Just try and go against the rules in Germany and you will find perfect strangers coming up to you and give you a bollocking.
If that was me and someone then tells me they won't come to my shop, I'd say "If you're not coming to my shop, then you don't get to use my car park, beside I do not wish to have the likes of you as a customer, since you obviously are a dishonest individual and can't be trusted"

slimjimmc

Del2005 wrote: »

If it's illegal to clamp how this person was fined €550 for removing one? The current situation of it being semi legal with no regulation is what he's going after not making it illegal, don't forget regulation means money for the regulators...

You should re-read the article. He wasn't fined for removing the clamp. He was fined for the criminal damage he caused to the clamp while removing it, and compensation for not returning it to its owner.

Del2005

slimjimmc wrote: »

You should re-read the article. He wasn't fined for removing the clamp. He was fined for the criminal damage he caused to the clamp while removing it, and compensation for not returning it to its owner.

I read it. I was replying to the poster who said clamping is illegal. If it's illegal to clamp then the person would never have been fined for damaging it or have even been brought to court.

SeanW

The government really should have an "impound lot" similar to what happens in the U.S. and then a scheme wereby property owners could get cars abusively parked towed away to it.

stoeger

K.Flyer wrote: »

Heres a suggestion that someone I know who had a similar problem did...
Get good clear signage made up, make it similar to the clamping firms, go and buy 3 or 4 decent looking clamps.
Put up the warning signs and leave for a few days, after a few days park some of the staff cars in prominant positions near the entramce with your newly purchased clamps stuck to their wheels, so anyone coming in can see them clearly. Change the cars and positions each morning to make it look good.
It worked well for their carpak, signage is still up and the clamps are left out as a warning and business has improved because their customers have better parking facilities.

That's a good way to do it have done this in the past

mgbgt1978

Del2005 wrote: »

I read it. I was replying to the poster who said clamping is illegal. If it's illegal to clamp then the person would never have been fined for damaging it or have even been brought to court.

I said that 'surely this would indicate that clamping is illegal'.
Not quite the same as saying that clamping is illegal.
Pedantic I know, but there you go.

As for the guy who was fined for damaging a clamp.....€150 fine for criminal damage, €400 compensation for the cost of the clamp.
And if you knew anything about him, you would be aware that the Guards are only too happy to charge this guy with anything

Robbo

Robbo wrote: »

In before someone misquotes the section of the Road Traffic Act about interfering with vehicles, devoid of context or knowledge of Contract law.

Forget about the RTA. I'd use the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 instead.

The Muppet

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

OP, clamp the bastards. I have an absolute hatred for people who think that the world is their playground, ATM, bin and toilet and they can do what they like without consequences.
The longer I'm here, the more I appreciate coming from a country where rules count for something and people not only respect them, but also tell people off who don't. Just try and go against the rules in Germany and you will find perfect strangers coming up to you and give you a bollocking.
If that was me and someone then tells me they won't come to my shop, I'd say "If you're not coming to my shop, then you don't get to use my car park, beside I do not wish to have the likes of you as a customer, since you obviously are a dishonest individual and can't be trusted"

Irish people wouldn't stand for that sort of treatment , you'd be getting a good auld slap or worse for yourself is you started bollocking complete strangers here. You wouldn't last long in business here either if you started calling your potential customers names , there could be another slap on the way for that I'd say.

goz83

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

OP, clamp the bastards. I have an absolute hatred for people who think that the world is their playground, ATM, bin and toilet and they can do what they like without consequences.
The longer I'm here, the more I appreciate coming from a country where rules count for something and people not only respect them, but also tell people off who don't. Just try and go against the rules in Germany and you will find perfect strangers coming up to you and give you a bollocking.
If that was me and someone then tells me they won't come to my shop, I'd say "If you're not coming to my shop, then you don't get to use my car park, beside I do not wish to have the likes of you as a customer, since you obviously are a dishonest individual and can't be trusted"

"Absolute Hatred"? Wow someone has issues. Try bollock me in public for parking crooked and i'll show you all about rule breaking.

dr.fuzzenstein

The Muppet wrote: »

Irish people wouldn't stand for that sort of treatment , you'd be getting a good auld slap or worse for yourself is you started bollocking complete strangers here. You wouldn't last long in business here either if you started calling your potential customers names , there could be another slap on the way for that I'd say.

I'm not the type to bollock strangers, but if that same Irish person went to Germany and decided to throw rubbish around, puke on the pavement, urinate down an alley, dump their car any old where and tell people "Fcuk off or I'll bate you", they would soon find out why Germany is an orderly country.
I know that all those things are perfectly acceptable here, but (and this might astound you) they are frowned upon elsewhere in Europe.
As for potential customer, if someone decides to block up the car park of my business and responds with abuse if asked not to do so, it shows that person has a lack of manners and absolutely no shame. They would most likely run up a massive bill and then not pay. I'd rather have honest and honourable customers.

goz83 wrote: »

"Absolute Hatred"? Wow someone has issues. Try bollock me in public for parking crooked and i'll show you all about rule breaking.

Same again. Of course I don't mean people who park a tiny bit crooked, but abandon their car across the entrance (Lidl in Ennis had to put up bollards to stop people parking across the entrance), who dump their car in a shop car park and fcuk off for 3-4 hours, and so on.
A society functions on rules and there are a lot of people in this country who obviously where never brought up to respect others and be considerate.

goz83

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Of course I don't mean people who park a tiny bit crooked, but abandon their car across the entrance (Lidl in Ennis had to put up bollards to stop people parking across the entrance), who dump their car in a shop car park and fcuk off for 3-4 hours, and so on.
A society functions on rules and there are a lot of people in this country who obviously where never brought up to respect others and be considerate.

Ennis? Why didn't you say so. That makes sense. They should also put the shutters down to keep people out

While i do agree that many motorists here have major manner issues, i thought your post was a bit ott. Clamping is so common here, because the attitude people have with fines. Nearly every person who drives a car would have outstanding parking tickets if clamping did not exist.

The Muppet

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'm not the type to bollock strangers, but if that same Irish person went to Germany and decided to throw rubbish around, puke on the pavement, urinate down an alley, dump their car any old where and tell people "Fcuk off or I'll bate you", they would soon find out why Germany is an orderly country.
I know that all those things are perfectly acceptable here, but (and this might astound you) they are frowned upon elsewhere in Europe.
As for potential customer, if someone decides to block up the car park of my business and responds with abuse if asked not to do so, it shows that person has a lack of manners and absolutely no shame. They would most likely run up a massive bill and then not pay. I'd rather have honest and honourable customers.

A society functions on rules and there are a lot of people in this country who obviously where never brought up to respect others and be considerate.

Germans can do as they like and usually have and tbh bad parking would be the least of their sins, I'm not convinced that they are any role model for the rest of us.

dr.fuzzenstein

Koni wrote: »

We are in the middle of the town and place was empty for over 10 years and people used to park there. We have now put sign and posts to inform people. But even if you tell them some of them gets very aggressive and just leave the car and go.

We can't be running the business with our car park full of cars we can't move. They also could be blocking the entrance to the unit.

What are our options in this situation?

The Muppet wrote: »

Germans can do as they like and usually have and tbh bad parking would be the least of their sins, I'm not convinced that they are any role model for the rest of us.

So it's back to square one for the OP.
Can't clamp, can't fine, all he can do is stand in his car park all day to ask people nicely not to park there and be told to fcuk off.
I suppose you'd park there and give him "a good auld slap" if he asked you not to park there. You are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

The Muppet

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So it's back to square one for the OP.
Can't clamp, can't fine, all he can do is stand in his car park all day to ask people nicely not to park there and be told to fcuk off.
I suppose you'd park there and give him "a good auld slap" if he asked you not to park there. You are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Actually what I'd do is introduce a charge for parking but waive it for actual customers. It would take a bit of organising but could be self financing and avoids the obvious pitfalls in your solution of insulting people or alienating potential customers.

QED

dr.fuzzenstein

The Muppet wrote: »

Actually what I'd do is introduce a charge for parking but waive it for actual customers. It would take a bit of organising but could be self financing and avoids the obvious pitfalls in your solution of insulting people or alienating potential customers.

QED

We'd have to see the OP's setup.
Organising barriers, ticketing machines, fencing, maybe a security hut for an attendant anhd so forth could be a bit much for someone who has three spaces at the back of a building.

One suggestion that springs to mind is covering cars parked there with those absolutely impossible to remove and very large PLEASE DO NOT PARK HERE stickers.
They are an annoyance for people who park there and shouldn't, certainly get the point across and aren't as drastic as clamping.

The Muppet

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

We'd have to see the OP's setup.
Organising barriers, ticketing machines, fencing, maybe a security hut for an attendant anhd so forth could be a bit much for someone who has three spaces at the back of a building.

One suggestion that springs to mind is covering cars parked there with those absolutely impossible to remove and very large PLEASE DO NOT PARK HERE stickers.
They are an annoyance for people who park there and shouldn't, certainly get the point across and aren't as drastic as clamping.

Where are you going with your barriers, fencing, ticket machines and security hut , there's shopping centers in Dublin using this system without putting themselves to any of those expenses.

I think you're missing the point, the idea is to solve the problem without insulting annoying or alienating people, after all it is a business premises . putting "absolutely impossible to remove and very large PLEASE DO NOT PARK HERE stickers" wouldn't be a good idea either imo .

tin79

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'm not the type to bollock strangers, but if that same Irish person went to Germany and decided to throw rubbish around, puke on the pavement, urinate down an alley, dump their car any old where and tell people "Fcuk off or I'll bate you", they would soon find out why Germany is an orderly country.

Germany is far from perfect. Have you seen the amount of graffiti all over everything in Germany? I would rather have ireland the way it is than have it the way Germany is. I was in Leipzig recently. Nearly every single buidling covered/destroyed in graffiti, every fence, every inch of motorway noise barrier, the side of every truck, every train, pavements, brick walls. Awful.

Thoie

It would cost money up front, but could you put a barrier on the gate that only opens with a token, and you give tokens to customers who spend more than a fiver (or if you know them to be regular customers)? So if Mr Chancer takes up a space for the day, then buys a pack of chewing gum and demands a token you say no, but if Mr RegularCustomer buys a pint of milk you'll sort him out.

dr.fuzzenstein

The Muppet wrote: »

Where are you going with your barriers, fencing, ticket machines and security hut , there's shopping centers in Dublin using this system without putting themselves to any of those expenses.

I think you're missing the point, the idea is to solve the problem without insulting annoying or alienating people, after all it is a business premises . putting "absolutely impossible to remove and very large PLEASE DO NOT PARK HERE stickers" wouldn't be a good idea either imo .

How exactly? By the power of goodwill?

The Muppet

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

How exactly? By the power of goodwill?

A person at the entrance writes a ticket on entrance with time on it and gives it to you. If you shop in the center you get ticket stamped . You produce ticket on exit to person at entrance, if stamped you go free if not you pay the parking rate.

Simples

cadaliac

Clear visible signage that cars will be clamped if they are not customers.Buy yourself a clamp and have the clamp on your own car as previouslysuggested.

Job done.

alias no.9

The Muppet wrote: »

Actually what I'd do is introduce a charge for parking but waive it for actual customers. It would take a bit of organising but could be self financing and avoids the obvious pitfalls in your solution of insulting people or alienating potential customers.

QED

How would you address the issue of non paying customers?

Would the commercial rates you're being charged by the local authority be in any way affected by the fact you've started charging for parking?

dr.fuzzenstein

The Muppet wrote: »

A person at the entrance writes a ticket on entrance with time on it and gives it to you. If you shop in the center you get ticket stamped . You produce ticket on exit to person at entrance, if stamped you go free if not you pay the parking rate.

Simples

Well, only the OP knows if this will work.
OP, any thoughts?

alias no.9

The Muppet wrote: »

A person at the entrance writes a ticket on entrance with time on it and gives it to you. If you shop in the center you get ticket stamped . You produce ticket on exit to person at entrance, if stamped you go free if not you pay the parking rate.

Simples

So you now need the car park to be attended at least during opening hours, which will be more than one person when breaks etc... are covered, how're you going to cover the cost of that?

dr.fuzzenstein

alias no.9 wrote: »

So you now need the car park to be attended at least during opening hours, which will be more than one person when breaks etc... are covered, how're you going to cover the cost of that?

You will have charge for parking.
Now the decision will be between will they piss more people off by clamping (which won't affect genuine customers and they will benefit from an accessible car park that doesn't cost anything) or them having to stump up for parking, this will require staff, extra hardware, possible barriers, tickets to be refunded to customers over a certain minimum spend, hassle and stress for everyone.
I am certainly not put off as a customer if a shop I go to clamps.
If I am a legitimate customer, I have nothing to worry about.
Around UL every shop has clamp notices up. Otherwise people just take the piss.
Are those shops besieged by angry customers telling the shopkeep they would never shop there because of their clamping policy?
No, they are frequented by happy people who are glad they can get a space and there's no hassle with tickets, refunds, etc...
In fact I find it hard to think of any argument against clamping.
it works and Joe Pisstake will have to go somewhere else.