bulk vs quality

eorna

is there a case after the last year to be going for heavy bulk in the silage??for a few years i was getting 8-9 bales an acre of very good stuff, last year because i could not cut when i wanted i ended up with 14-15 bales an acre of average stuff, wasn't too bad a and animals did ok with it...now as things turned out that was a blessing ..
this year i am thinking of letting the field very heavy and get plenty of bulk like last year instead of top quality leaving me tight...any opinions?

iverjohnston

Yes there is, depending on what you're going to feed it to. But don't say it out loud. The grass, sorry, thought police will be along with a rubber hose to re-educate you!

Sam Kade

The trouble with bulking up is that the crop will start decaying at the base delaying regrowth. Surely 2 lighter cut would be better and you will end up with the same quantity and faster regrowth?

lakill Farm

why not go a different way altogether.

Say you have beef trying to fatten well do top quality x 2 cuts

dry suckler cows go with 1 large cut with average quality. No point feeding them good quality stuff.

Just my 2cent

will also mean you will have aftergrass in 2 stages, once after the high quantity/avg quality and later after the 2nd cut high quality/avg quantity.

However this means cutting silage 3 times

mahoney_j

Quality will alway s win out for me,with good quality fair enough you have lower bulk yes but you will have less concentrate to feed,live weight gain and milk production will be higher.straw can also be added to the diet in higher amounts with no negative effect.a lot of lads around me should of cut last week but didn't and are now looking at stemmy crap starting to lodge in their fields with quality deteriorating rapidly.yes they'll fill there puts but at what cost????.aftergrass/second cut will also be a lot later

Juniorhurler

Remember that an animal has a required energy intake. If cutting bales especially go for quality. You might have less, but that costs a lot less to make and will go a lot further per bale feeding cattle than poorer quality in bulk. Bulk is false economy in my view.
For dry suckler cows dryer try to make the best we can and then feed barley straw with it. We can buy feed quality straw for €8-10 per 4x4 bale. This is the best value in our circumstances I reckon.

darragh_haven

lakill Farm wrote: »

why not go a different way altogether.

Say you have beef trying to fatten well do top quality x 2 cuts

dry suckler cows go with 1 large cut with average quality. No point feeding them good quality stuff.

Just my 2cent

will also mean you will have aftergrass in 2 stages, once after the high quantity/avg quality and later after the 2nd cut high quality/avg quantity.

However this means cutting silage 3 times

And hoping for 3 dry spells of weather. ....

bbam

We tested our silage last year and it was an eye opener.. I spoke with the lad in the lab and what he tole me was that I was making silage for "ould suckler cows" not the young weanlings that I was trying to grow over the winter.
You won't grow weanlings on big bulked up silage, actually you will but you'll be feeding alot of high protein concentrate to compensate for the poor silage and that is expensive.. We had a high concentrate bill compensating..

Roll on this year and we did our best to rectify the situation.. We cut after 7 weeks rather than 13 (in fairness it was delayed 2 weeks last year with weather).
We'll be cutting a second cut and planning 8 weeks closed time.


I'm currently estimating that the bales will be €2-3 dearer and if I get a decent protein increase I should be saving ~ €20 in meal fed along per bale. We're only small scale but for someone with high stock numbers this is a no-brainer.


We should be trying to put a financial value on our decisions, it can put a very different slant on your decisions..

hugo29

what really done it for me last year was, i managed to save 25 bales in june when we had 3 great days, it was paddocks which had got strong, it was cut on a saturday morning, got saturday and sunday wilting in the sun and was baled dry on monday

the remainder of my silage was cut wet in july and baled the same evening, the difference in quality and feeding value was an eye opener,

plus i her rumours that silage ground around here is renting a €30 a bale and you pay the cost to harvest after that:eek:

lakill Farm

i have all yearlings here and i cut silage before it heads out.

But if i had dry sucklers i would be feeding them alot lower quality stuff. Your only trying to maintain them.
What type of animals are you feeding?

On the straw. it was going for big bucks up in the midlands last sept

manjou

Last year straw cost 20 euro delivered here and that wasent the dearest as some people paid more no straw near me so it is going to be cheaper to buy quality in the form of rations this year and have enough forage and not have to buy it as silage and straw could be dear and no point in buying someone elses poor stuff better of putting money into good concentrates.

Dampintheattic

manjou wrote: »

Last year straw cost 20 euro delivered here and that wasent the dearest as some people paid more no straw near me so it is going to be cheaper to buy quality in the form of rations this year and have enough forage and not have to buy it as silage and straw could be dear and no point in buying someone elses poor stuff better of putting money into good concentrates.

Same here. €20 for bale of straw. Takes up space to store it. Often not the best.
Rolled oats for cows far better value in every way.

Juniorhurler

If the straw wasn't so so cheap I wouldn't be at it either. Great way of adding bulk to good quality silage for small money if you live in an area with a lot of tillage.

eorna

feeding mostly sheep...to me last year was a bit of an eye opener but the other way around..i thought animals will do very poorly but to be honest they did ok..and lambing wasn't much different than other years and yes maybe did start feeding them earlier but..
I know quality is much better but with contractor doing all the work the price of 2 cuts (mowing, baling,wrapping...) plus the price of fertiliser ends up very expensive.1 heavy cut might work in some situations (even if extra meal has to be got still cheaper) and have the silage ground free earlier...
i know this argument is not technically right and quality is the way to go but just thinking this way as fodder might get very expensive this year..

munkus

I'd always err on the side of having enough anyway and go with 1 heavy cut, next week hopefully. No one here seems to mention that you're throwing out twice as much fertilizer for two cuts as one, also you're putting a severe strain on the field every year. Also, I need all of my silage ground for grazing as soon as possible, a second cut would delay this for weeks.

For all we know there'll be sh1t growth for the next few weeks and 2 light cuts of silage could see alot of lads short next winter, even if the quality is so good they could eat it themselves.

mf240

munkus wrote: »

. No one here seems to mention that you're throwing out twice as much fertilizer for two cuts as one, also you're putting a severe strain on the field every year. .

A big heavy crop where the field stays white for weeks after is a great way to allow timothey fescue and docks go to seed and replace the ryegrass. If fert is balanced 2 cuts not hard on field.

The way I am though is if ya get a few dry days together anything thats near the mark gets mowed and wrapped as next dry spell could be a month away.

bbam

munkus wrote: »

I'd always err on the side of having enough anyway and go with 1 heavy cut, next week hopefully. No one here seems to mention that you're throwing out twice as much fertilizer for two cuts as one, also you're putting a severe strain on the field every year. Also, I need all of my silage ground for grazing as soon as possible, a second cut would delay this for weeks.

For all we know there'll be sh1t growth for the next few weeks and 2 light cuts of silage could see alot of lads short next winter, even if the quality is so good they could eat it themselves.

Well I said in my post that the bales were more expensive, this is due to the fertiliser cost.

And providing fields are looked after in a balanced fashion it's as good for them as grazing. Yes if you were throwing on CAN cut after cut, year after year it would put a strain on fields. But if ground is looked after it should be fine.

Timmaay

The teagasc advisor gave us a very good example of how a typical 80/100cow dairyfarmer would save 4000, in going with two cuts of good quality silage, instead of one big bulky 1st cut. This is even with the extra costs of two harvests, and two lots of fertilizer etc. The biggest saving comes with the reduced amount of concentrate feed required during the winter for dairycows on poorer quality late 1st cut grass. I know that example is specific to dairyfarmers, but same principle does apply to any livestock on grass silage for the winter. In terms of weather, surely having two cuts also will limit your exposure to poor weather conditions at harvest time, instead a large risk of your one cut of silage being harvested under wet conditions, at least with two cuts, the odds are with one of them you will manage to get cut in good weather once your flexible with cutting dates etc. In terms of giving the fields a break, not needed if you replace the P/K/S that you removed, and what many lads around me do anyways is cut different paddocks for the 2nd cut, saves them the hassle of having to top those paddocks etc. Finally, regrowth on smaller cuts will be much better than with one bulky cut, just look at how quick Stanflts 2nd cut is coming up!

Granted all of the above suits the larger lads better, harder to justify the added labour/contractor costs of 2 cuts if you only have 20 sucklers etc!

Muckit

I was laughed at by a dairy farmer when I suggested he should have his silage cut by now! What would he need top notch silage for dry cows. He preferred to go for bulk

Timmaay

Did you ask him what concentrate he fed to the drycows, I personally don't mind feeding a lactating cow nuts, as at least I'm getting it straight back in the form of milk (ok yes at a much lower margin than if that milk was from grass). And if he said no nuts, did you ask him what sort of BSC did the cows calf down at, and many issues getting them back in calf etc as a result? Then what about in Feb/March in poor weather, when a fresh calver most needs lots of high energy feed. Most the lads in our discussion group are in winter milk also, which obviously changes the game abit.