Not everyone's allowed to go on Gay Pride

Ambersky

Every now and again I hear people saying things like gay rights have been pretty much won the world over.
Statements like that come from a kind of thinking that the whole world is similar to what you experience here and now.
I would like to draw attention to what has been happening recently in other parts of Europe and that for some people Gay Pride is indeed still more of a march than a Parade and definitely not taken for granted.
The people in these videos look pretty much the same as people I see on Gay Pride Marches here in Dublin. Can you even imagine having to face the kind of violence or threat of violence these LGBT people have to face. How brave are they to stand out there and march.

Russia Passes Bill Banning Gay 'Propaganda'
June 11, 2013, The Wall Street Journal

By LUKAS I. ALPERT

MOSCOW—Russia's lower house of Parliament passed a bill Tuesday that bans the promotion of homosexual "propaganda" and mandates stiff fines and jail terms for violators in what critics fear will lead to antigay repression.......

The bill banning "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations," makes it a crime to hold gay pride events, speak in defense of gay rights or to say gay relationships are equal to heterosexual ones. Although ostensibly intended to protect minors, the bill is written so broadly that in effect it amounts to an outright ban.
The bill now goes to the upper house, the Federation Council, where it has strong support, and then to Mr. Putin, who is expected to sign it into law.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323495604578539220032220406.html

In some areas of Europe the far right is gaining power and its respectable political face holds a sizable percentage of public representatives in some governments. The less publicly acceptable face of the far right is skinhead fascist gangs. We can see them in action in Serbia 2010 which is only 2 years ago but the following videos will bring us right up to events in 2013

Anti-gays clash with cops, disrupt rights parade in Georgia
Thousands Orthodox anti-gay activists broke through police cordon and pursued gay rights protesters in Georgia's capital, Tbilisi, injuring at least 17 people in the process. The violent brawl marred the May 17 2013 International Day Against Homophobia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NErcgqgYeE

More on that http://rt.com/news/anti-gay-clashes-tbilisi-421/

On a more positive note There were a handful of minor disturbances, with 10 arrests, but Kyiv's LGBT community managed to hold its first ever gay pride parade in the city on Saturday, May 25. 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0-zhbW_Reo

Vojera

Reading the recent "Heterosexual Pride Day" thread in After Hours has made me think about this subject and also realise that a lot of people have no clue how poor LGBT rights are outside of Ireland.

It's a sorry state of affairs when I don't have the same rights as other citizens and yet I'm actually grateful that I don't live in a country where gay-bashing isn't classed as a hate crime (parts of the USA) or where I could be imprisoned (Uganda), publicly beaten (Malawi) or executed (Sudan) just for loving another woman. And I agree, it seems that in some countries the laws are actually going backwards, not forwards. It's really scary!

baby and crumble

These maps are all you need.





Scary. Far too many countries where I could be killed for loving my partner.

KILLED.

Ambersky

Vojera says
And I agree, it seems that in some countries the laws are actually going backwards, not forwards. It's really scary!

Homosexuality was illegal during Soviet times but was decriminalized in 1993 that's the same year it was decriminalized here .
Russia does indeed seem to be going backwards with this new law which makes it a crime to hold gay pride events, speak in defense of gay rights or to say gay relationships are equal to heterosexual ones.
We know LGBT people can even be given a death sentence in some countries. I think sometimes people dont take the things that happen in Saudi and African countries too seriously. They think the people and governments there are very different from themselves.
But just look at the videos of what is happening with the rise of the extreme right in Europe. All this is not very far away from us.
I dont think people realise that we cant afford to take progress for granted and that backlashes can and do happen.
There are several European countries who have sizable far right representation in their governments, who do you think these people are against -
Foreigners and Jews certainly, but dont forget they are also against LGBT people too.

This is Paris 3 month ago. Look at the size of this protest against Gay Marriage in France. Look at how young a lot of the protestors are. This is what you call a backlash where gains are made by a non dominant group and the dominant group organizes to put them back down or to limit the gains.

A "backlash" is a popular negative reaction to something which has gained popularity, prominence, or influence. Although it can sometimes represent a categorical rejection of the idea, aesthetic, product, or fad in question, it is usually a reflection of a collective resentment of that thing's ubiquity in culture and media, rather than a denial of its existence. The term is commonly applied to gender and racial discrimination and religious discrimination against minority groups, as well, such as in response to certain events or circumstances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backlash_%28sociology%29

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc57UTuSwYQ

And when Gay Marriage is legalized in France, here is some of the violent reaction to that. The videos also demonstrate that the maps that show where Gay Rights are strongest by which countries have legalized gay marriage, only tell part of the story. We dont have Gay Marriage but I wouldnt expect this scale of violent reaction to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39xpKoeyH-Q

Locker10a

This scares me

JupiterKid

The growing oppression of the LGBT community in Russia is utterly disgusting.:mad:

Ellie_Sm

ah this is exactly what i have been looking for, i had a conversation with my friend who is straight about pride and she asked my why do we have pride? If we want to be accepted into society then why do we have to have a time of the year where we inherently make ourselves different from everyone else? and as well as that why does it have to be so 'in your face' etc etc etc!!??
Now i love my friend, I have all the time in the world for her but after trying to explain to her as best i could the importance of visibility and how important it is to instill a sense of community in a fragmented part of society she still thought the whole thing was unnecessary, that we were only stoking the fires of conservatives and opening ourselves to violence.
She closed the conversation by saying we'd just have to agree to disagree and while i can see what she means in her points i just cannot shake the feeling that i didn't explain enough, know enough, be passionate enough to change her point of view!
This topic certainly has given me a few additional points that i hadn't thought of at the time, thanks!!

What have you guys said when faced with these types of questions?

Ambersky

In my experience people rarely stop a conversation and say "you know what you are right, you have convinced me of your argument and I am now going to change the way I look at things", its not that it never happens, but people usually need to go away and think about things and little by little the arguments eventually build up into a conclusion. Things are usually in a state of flux anyway because even those conclusions remain open to change, as we continue to observe and evaluate what is going on around us. So you just do your bit as well as you can at the time and its all right, it all adds up.

Some people feel strongly that if we LGBT people simply kept our heads down and blended in, things would be all right. But history and the knowledge that our youth are still bullied in schools and teachers and nurses and those working in religious run institutions still don't have the full protection of the law, and the fact that we cant yet get married and many people are afraid to come out, and many more people feel they need to leave the communities they grew up in simply to have a life of their own here in Ireland tell us that it wouldn't. Quite simply we don't do well in isolation, we need one another.
All of the political advances we have made, equality laws etc have been made by people making the causes of the LGBT community known, increasing visibility and awareness and working together. Some individuals may be strong enough now to live a more isolated life and not feel the need to be in contact with other LGBT people but they are benefiting from those who went before them and brought about enough social change for them to be able to do that. Twenty years ago in Ireland it was illegal to be gay. Some of the most vociferous people arguing against LBBT visibility in all its diversity especially on Gay Pride are quite frankly ashamed of their LGBT brothers and sisters and want to distance themselves from them. Heterosexuals are not the only ones who need to work on their homophobia.

We parade in celebration of the achievements we have won, in celebration of our diversity, our normality and our fabulousness, for the fun of it and because we can and we march because we still do not have full legal protection and equality with our heterosexual peers and because homophobia is still alive and expressed in all kinds of ways daily in Ireland.

Gay Pride and St Patrick's festival have a lot in common. Some people have great fun and put a lot of creative energy into it which can be enjoyed by all. Some people get drunk, make a show of themselves, fight and become a public nuisance.
Most of the arguments against Gay Pride could be applied to the St Patricks festival .
Some people in arguing against St Patricks festival say we cant really define who or what is Irish, there is no such thing as the Celts, St Patrick was a fictional character or was more than one person. They say we don't need this festival it gives a bad image of the Irish, all the usual stereotypes come out and it costs a lot of money.
So do any of those arguments sound familiar? Life would be a lot duller if we were all the same and if we couldn't do things like dress up, celebrate and have a damn good party.

Ambersky

Im kind of excited and proud because todays Irish Times weekend edition has a page in the News Review section page 3 called
20 Years Of Being Legally Gay
and the main photo is of Dublin Pride1993 and there is a photo of myself on the back of a friends motorbike leading that years Parade.
I may also be in the 1984 photo with my back to the camera- not sure-looks like me at that time and I was there.