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How our money is being wasted.

  • 13-06-2013 10:22am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭ Rigsby


    This seemed the most appropriate forum to post this topic.


    Took a walk through Glasnevin Cemetery in Dublin recently. There has long been plans to provide pedestrian/wheelchair access from the cemetery to the Botanic Gardens. Well, work has begun on this. The key word here is "WORK".

    If ever there was an OTT project, then this is it. Initially at the early stages, there was a seven feet (approx) gap cut in the railings dividing the cemetery and Botanic Gardens. I assumed they would then level the ground and put down maybe two dozen small light paving slabs, as IMO (granted I am not an architect) that would be ample.


    Not a bit of it !! A major excavation about twelve feet deep and about twenty meters wide complete with solid steel reinforcing bars are being put in place. I asked one of the work men what was being constructed. The reply was a pedestrian/wheel chair access.

    I doubt if the foundations for the runway used by the space shuttle are as deep as in this project.


    If this is not wasting tax payer's money, then I don't know what is..:rolleyes:


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭ RangeR


    Rigsby wrote: »
    This seemed the most appropriate forum to post this topic.


    Took a walk through Glasnevin Cemetery in Dublin recently. There has long been plans to provide pedestrian/wheelchair access from the cemetery to the Botanic Gardens. Well, work has begun on this. The key word here is "WORK".

    If ever there was an OTT project, then this is it. Initially at the early stages, there was a seven feet (approx) gap cut in the railings dividing the cemetery and Botanic Gardens. I assumed they would then level the ground and put down maybe two dozen small light paving slabs, as IMO (granted I am not an architect) that would be ample.


    Not a bit of it !! A major excavation about twelve feet deep and about twenty meters wide complete with solid steel reinforcing bars are being put in place. I asked one of the work men what was being constructed. The reply was a pedestrian/wheel chair access.

    I doubt if the foundations for the runway used by the space shuttle are as deep as in this project.


    If this is not wasting tax payer's money, then I don't know what is..:rolleyes:

    Pretty sure they have to put a lockable, solid gate at that entrance, hence the foundations.


  • Administrators Posts: 33,519 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ dudara


    The people best positioned to provide you with answers are the council engineers and architects behind this project.

    I don't see a particular Consumer Issue here, but I am stumped where else to move this thread as we don't have a dedicated forum for public/civic projects. Anyone got any suggestions?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭ Rigsby


    RangeR wrote: »
    Pretty sure they have to put a lockable, solid gate at that entrance, hence the foundations.

    Oh, they have made provisions for that as well. :D They have erected a ten foot high reinforced concrete frame, about a foot thick, into which I assume, will go the gate.
    What I described earlier, was for the ramp. All this ramp will be needed for is so that a person can walk through, or wheel a frail person in a wheel chair from the cemetery to the Botanic Gardens. IMO, what they are building could support heavy machinery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭ old_aussie


    Rigsby wrote: »
    Oh, they have made provisions for that as well. :D They have erected a ten foot high reinforced concrete frame, about a foot thick, into which I assume, will go the gate.
    .

    And what point would there be in putting a gate between the cemetery and the Botanic Gardens?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,333 ✭✭✭✭ seamus


    I imagine there are some design rules for the construction of disabled accessways, which in many cases probably require them to put in things which are overkill for the size of the path being constructed.

    As said above, maybe get in touch with the council to ask those involved what's going on. It may also be subject to a planning order, so you might be able to see the docs.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Glasnevin Cemetery is owned by a private charitable trust. Are you even sure that the state has any involvement in this at all?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭ Rigsby


    old_aussie wrote: »
    And what point would there be in putting a gate between the cemetery and the Botanic Gardens?

    Glasnevin cemetery is a magnet for tourists, as is the Botanic Gardens. There has been ongoing work in the cemetery in preparation for the upcoming 1916 centenary. As there is about a twenty minute walk at present to get from one to the other, it makes sense to have the two linked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭ Rigsby


    MYOB wrote: »
    Glasnevin Cemetery is owned by a private charitable trust. Are you even sure that the state has any involvement in this at all?

    You could be correct here, I am not sure. If so, does this mean that money meant to go to charity, is being spent in this way ? If so, then this is just as much a waste of people's money.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Rigsby wrote: »
    You could be correct here, I am not sure. If so, does this mean that money meant to go to charity, is being spent in this way ? If so, then this is just as much a waste of people's money.

    The cemetery is the charity.

    http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭ old_aussie


    Rigsby wrote: »
    Glasnevin cemetery is a magnet for tourists, as is the Botanic Gardens. There has been ongoing work in the cemetery in preparation for the upcoming 1916 centenary. As there is about a twenty minute walk at present to get from one to the other, it makes sense to have the two linked.

    Thanks for that valid reason, as I'm not aware of the area.

    But, do they really need to erect such an expensive solid gate?

    Surely the cemetery and the Botanic Gardens are already secure areas, both fenced and gated.

    The ONLY reason I can see for the heavy internal expensive gate is that the authorities don't trust the mourners.

    Do they fear the mourners will go to the Botanic Gardens and pick some choice fresh flowers for the graves. :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭ RangeR


    old_aussie wrote: »
    Do they fear the mourners will go to the Botanic Gardens and pick some choice fresh flowers for the graves. :)

    Not only mourners go to a cemetery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭ Rigsby


    RangeR wrote: »
    Not only mourners go to a cemetery.


    I agree. I live close to the cemetery and visit often, merely for a casual walk. There are always tourists about, either checking out the "1916 plot" or searching for graves of long lost relatives. Many times I have been asked for directions to the Botanic gardens. So, it seems logical to tourists to visit both, seeing that they are side by side.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭ Rigsby


    Mods, I accept that this is not the best place for this thread. I did a search and this was the most appropriate I could find. In the absence of a "correct" forum, feel free to delete or lock, if you wish. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ Remington Acidic Saint


    Look, there's nothing anybody here can do about it except repeat that you should contact the council or a councillor about it. As for a waste of money - do you know the cost?

    Ask the council about it if you are concerned.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    Look, there's nothing anybody here can do about it except repeat that you should contact the council or a councillor about it. As for a waste of money - do you know the cost?

    Ask the council about it if you are concerned.

    Its critical to first find out if the council or the OPW are even responsible for it at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,000 mitosis


    Ill-researched rant is ill-researched. OP would like thread hidden, please :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 878 rainbowdash


    Rigsby wrote: »
    This seemed the most appropriate forum to post this topic.


    Took a walk through Glasnevin Cemetery in Dublin recently. There has long been plans to provide pedestrian/wheelchair access from the cemetery to the Botanic Gardens. Well, work has begun on this. The key word here is "WORK".

    If ever there was an OTT project, then this is it. Initially at the early stages, there was a seven feet (approx) gap cut in the railings dividing the cemetery and Botanic Gardens. I assumed they would then level the ground and put down maybe two dozen small light paving slabs, as IMO (granted I am not an architect) that would be ample.


    Not a bit of it !! A major excavation about twelve feet deep and about twenty meters wide complete with solid steel reinforcing bars are being put in place. I asked one of the work men what was being constructed. The reply was a pedestrian/wheel chair access.

    I doubt if the foundations for the runway used by the space shuttle are as deep as in this project.


    If this is not wasting tax payer's money, then I don't know what is..:rolleyes:

    Can we have some photos of the offending structure?

    Is it possible its being designed or future proofed so that maintenance vehicles can travel over it?

    12 feet deep is about 2 Paul O'Connells standing on top of each other and just being able to peep out.

    20 metre wide would allow an articulated lorry go through the gap SIDEWAYS, with plenty to spare.

    Putting down paving slabs is not going to be good enough for wheelchairs, they would need to excavate about 12" deep, put down some hardcore (stone) then maybe 4-6" of concrete. If they are allowing for ride on lawn mowers and gardening vehicles then reinforcing with steel might not be excessive.

    Anyway a few pictures would help a lot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ Remington Acidic Saint


    MYOB wrote: »
    Its critical to first find out if the council or the OPW are even responsible for it at all.

    Council will know as it probably needed planning permission. Even if not the council will surely know.

    It a non issue anyway!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭ tricky D


    There's plenty of potential reasons for the size of the works:

    Potential emergency service or other heavy vehicle access.
    The huge factors resulting from the soil survey: drainage, subsidence potential, structural ability, and other pedology factors. Easily glossed over by someone unfamiliar with Soil Mechanics and very likely the most important criteria of all.
    The need for a wider than usual 2-way path and possible annex requirements like a ticket office or shop or other services....
    Not every path is as trivial as throwing down some compacted hardcore and laying some slabs on top.

    There's also the problem of measuring by an untrained eye ie. it's probably a lot less than the dimensions described above. Happens all the time.


  • Administrators Posts: 33,519 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ dudara


    Going to shoot this thread over to the Infrastructure forum, as it appears to loosely match.

    Infrastructure mods, please lock this thread if not appropriate to your forum.

    dudara


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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,534 ✭✭✭✭ the_syco


    Rigsby wrote: »
    There has long been plans to provide pedestrian/wheelchair access from the cemetery to the Botanic Gardens.

    <snip>

    Not a bit of it !! A major excavation about twelve feet deep and about twenty meters wide complete with solid steel reinforcing bars are being put in place.
    I'd assume 12 foot deep excavation is to ensure that they're not building on top of a grave?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭ Rigsby




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭ syklops


    All the outrage on this thread from the OP on the waste of money. :rolleyes: The cost of a few guys digging a hole is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. A bit of overtime for some labourers is not going to break, ahem, the bank.

    The E-voting machines cost 50million. Get outraged over that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 Judgement Day


    The waste of money on the Thornton Hall prison site would be another thing to get outraged about. If it ever gets built some of its first inmates should be those who sanctioned the project - €45 million spent so far and not a brick laid. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 635 ✭✭✭ Jayuu


    The Dublin people article seems fairly clear as to what they are creating. As for it being a waste of money could we find out how much money this is costing and perhaps let's see what is put there before we decide whether it is excessive or not.

    To be honest this is the sort of "outraged" post that annoys me. No facts just a whole load of assumptions so that sombody can moan. Thankfully we don't see too much of them on this forum.


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