Are drivers of automatic cars less likely to have an accident?

flanzer

So I've been renting cars over the last number of years over in the States while on holidays, all of them automatic. Touch wood, I've never been involved in a prang of any sort and have driven manual cars since I could drive (last 17 years)

While over there this year, I did a bit more extensive driving around Florida. This year I was more conscious of people who drive the cars and couldn't get over the amount of 'kids' who drive cars, barely out of puberty!

Now to me driving an automatic car (especially in 'D') is brain dead. Right foot goes down on accelerator, right foot comes up, right foot goes on brake, right foot goes on accelerator etc etc. All you have to do is concentrate on the road ahead.

So does changing gears take away from the concentration of the driving on the road. I know quite a few people out there who consciously have to concentrate on changing gears. Most of us do it subconsciously, but does this impact us on our subconscious, affect our concentration of safely driving on the road.

The roads in America are infinitely better than ours, so I know that's a major factor in road safety. Some states do regular testing also, and some educate pupils on safe driving, but does driving a manual car affect road safely? I believe it is a factor, be it small

I believe that the Irish insurance companies data shows the opposite, i.e. that in proportion automatics are involved in more accidents than manuals.
The reasons are open to debate.

jimgoose

Interesting enough question. My own take on it is that driving a manual tends to keep one more focused on the whole act of driving. Most people I know who drive automatics tend to go off to Muppetland a bit while doing so, thinking deeply about all sorts of things. Granted most of those folks are elderly, or heading that way!

I know a few people who have ran afoul of the automatic too - many a tip has been caused by forgetting that the car will do its own thing when the lever is left in "D", including one lady I knew quite well who was run over by her own Mercedes in her driveway - bloody haunted she wasn't killed.

corktina

yes, I'd say they would be more prone to accidents but only because the demographic of those that use them includes the more doddery drivers which throws the statistics out of kilter.

Gosub

I don't think it's anything to do with the gearbox. A bad driver will be a bad driver, no matter what they drive.

I used to know a girl that couldn't change gear without looking at the gearstick. Now, maybe she would be safer with an auto.

jimgoose

Gosub wrote: »

I don't think it's anything to do with the gearbox. A bad driver will be a bad driver, no matter what they drive.

I used to know a girl that couldn't change gear without looking at the gearstick. Now, maybe she would be safer with an auto.

At least her mind was on the car, which is more than may be said for a lot of people!

Gosub

jimgoose wrote: »

At least her mind was on the car, which is more than may be said for a lot of people!

Problem is... her mind should have been on the road ahead instead of the car. :cool:

jimgoose

Gosub wrote: »

Problem is... her mind should have been on the road ahead instead of the car. :cool:

Baby steps, Gosub - baby steps!

KeithTS

I don't think changing gears has any affect when it comes to crashes.
Perhaps it could result in more people having a little prang in a car park but I would imagine most serious crashes occur at speed meaning the car is in it's highest gear anyway so there would be no gear changing there.

I think the more important factor is that road safety is taught in schools in America, you see a lot of younger people driving over there because it's taught to them from a young age and they get their license (in a number of states at least) through courses in school.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Ive seen people drive manual who for no reasonthat when they go to change gear they have only one hand on the wheen and cant control their body movement properly and when they change gear the turn the wheel either way nearly crashing.

Theres a problem of people not knowing or remembering what gear they are in or where the stick is exactly. I.e would be in second but would reach for third instead. And I do think looking at the gear stick is a big problem.

Myself driving auto find it better, big one being the first off at the lights and leaving everyone behind without putting the foot down or speeding and people still sitting there finding a gear.

KeithTS

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

.... and people still sitting there finding a gear.

In all fairness, if a driver can't get themselves off the mark because they can't find 1st they have no right driving on a public road.....now 2nd, that's a tough one to find!

Zcott

Interesting question. The question wouldn't exactly be answered by seeing the amount of automatic cars involved in accidents because there's the possibility that people who buy automatics are more, or less, prone to accidents.

There's the possibility that more automatics are involved in accidents because American tourists used to automatics would have an automatic hire car, be unfamiliar with driving on the left, and be involved in an a accident. Or older people who prefer not to have to deal with gears might drive an automatic, and are more prone to accidents. So it's really not about the cars causing accidents but the folks who choose to drive an automatic.

FWIW my brother crashed his Smart in a car park by hitting the wrong pedal and crashing into the back of a someone. Also worth noting he's equally dangerous in a manual car.

keithclancy

I don't care, I'll drive anything.

No idea why but I'm generally more aware of my speed in a manual.

jimgoose

KeithTS wrote: »

...I think the more important factor is that road safety is taught in schools in America, you see a lot of younger people driving over there because it's taught to them from a young age and they get their license (in a number of states at least) through courses in school.

Driver's Ed is the mutt's nuts, to be sure. Although the actual driving test in most U.S. states is laughable. Good few years back we had an American visitor at the company I worked for. He hired a Toyota Avensis for the six months or so he was over, and didn't let the fact that it was manual put him off at all - he just stuck it in third, reasoning no doubt that it was a fine, versatile gear, and left it so. Got through (IIRC) three clutches in the six months. Consumables, wha'??

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

...Myself driving auto find it better, big one being the first off at the lights and leaving everyone behind without putting the foot down or speeding and people still sitting there finding a gear.

Manuals are much better for peeling out. Who you dragging - grannies in Yariseses??

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

FWIW my brother crashed his Smart in a car park by hitting the wrong pedal and crashing into the back of a someone. Also worth noting he's equally dangerous in a manual car.[/quote]

My dad crashed into a wall once.... his shoes were wet and he was parking and his foot slipped off the brake on to the gas and straight into the wall.

It was a manual too

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

jimgoose wrote: »

Manuals are much better for peeling out. Who you dragging - grannies in Yariseses??

Against anything. People are too concerned about not conking out so they take their time off the lights.

keithclancy

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Against anything. People are too concerned about not conking out so they take their time off the lights.

I do notice that Auto Drivers (Especially German taxi drivers) tend to mash the pedal to the floor for no good reason when taking off at lights

Cheensbo

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Against anything. People are too concerned about not conking out so they take their time off the lights.

Eh maybe learners and new drivers are, but most are not concerned about conking out... People take their time, because they're taking their time....

_Kaiser_

Personally I think that, especially for a learner starting off, driving an auto allows you to actually focus on driving and awareness of your surroundings rather than the mechanics of controlling the car.

As for the number of accidents, I wouldn't think it has anything to do with it myself - it's down to the individual driver and their experience.

I think the problem also in Ireland is the irrational hatred/fear of a lot of drivers towards a (decent) auto

jimgoose

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

...I think the problem also in Ireland is the irrational hatred/fear of a lot of drivers towards a (decent) auto

To be sure. But for every (bowel-evacuatingly expensive) 7-speed ZF unit there are ten utter buckets of sh!t.

_Kaiser_

jimgoose wrote: »

To be sure. But for every (bowel-evacuatingly expensive) 7-speed ZF unit there are ten utter buckets of sh!t.

It really depends what you expect from a car (and I know Motors forum is probably the wrong place for this question)

I'm on my 5th auto now..

2x 1.3 Mitsubishi Mirages - great cars, bulletproof reliability but fold like paper and you notice the power lacking if you have a few people in them

02 1.9 TDI Passat - again no issues here (with the gearbox/power anyway)

06 2.0 TDI Passat - great car, fantastic DSG gearbox. 200,000km of loyal service

05 3.0 TDI A6 - So far I've been impressed with it. Just keeps going too

I find them great in traffic and the open road. I don't rally around everywhere but I don't dawdle either and I like to "make progress" on the open road when the opportunity arises

jimgoose

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

...I find them great in traffic and the open road. I don't rally around everywhere but I don't dawdle either and I like to "make progress" on the open road when the opportunity arises

Yeah. I have one the rare five-speed manual Jaguar S-Types, and it is a mighty yoke. The shift is a little "manly", but very pleasant. I drove a V6 automatic some years back for a week, and found the five-speed Ford unit in it tedious. The 6-speed ZF 'box in the V8 is considerably and noticeably better.

Tea 1000

jimgoose wrote: »

Interesting enough question. My own take on it is that driving a manual tends to keep one more focused on the whole act of driving. Most people I know who drive automatics tend to go off to Muppetland a bit while doing so, thinking deeply about all sorts of things.

I don't agree with this. When you're a competent driver with lots of experience then the actions of driving the car are done mostly by the subconscious, so the act of actually driving safely (ie awareness and anticipation) is left to your conscious. That's the part that unfortunately most people don't do, they get to the point where driving is a subconscious act and don't bother taking any heed of what's around them.

When they're learning, too much focus goes into the mechanical act of driving the car so that's why Learner drivers are less safe. Automatics just closes the gap between where the mechanical part of driving moves from the conscious mind to the subconscious mind. What the driver is like after that phase is down to the individual, not the transmission.

Zcott wrote: »

FWIW my brother crashed his Smart in a car park by hitting the wrong pedal and crashing into the back of a someone. Also worth noting he's equally dangerous in a manual car.

Automatic or manual, the pedal on the right is always the wrong pedal!

jimgoose

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I don't agree with this. When you're a competent driver with lots of experience then the actions of driving the car are done mostly by the subconscious, so the act of actually driving safely (ie awareness and anticipation) is left to your conscious. That's the part that unfortunately most people don't do, they get to the point where driving is a subconscious act and don't bother taking any heed of what's around them.

When they're learning, too much focus goes into the mechanical act of driving the car so that's why Learner drivers are less safe. Automatics just closes the gap between where the mechanical part of driving moves from the conscious mind to the subconscious mind. What the driver is like after that phase is down to the individual, not the transmission.

Automatic or manual, the pedal on the right is always the wrong pedal!

Oh I know - I'm pretty handy myself.

I'm just musing really, on what it might be that, in my experience, makes a lot of automatic drivers even less attentive than drivers of manuals. One crackpot theory I have is that the necessity of focusing on the machine's transmission might be a good thing for learners, a sort of "anchor point", if you will.

H3llR4iser

jimgoose wrote: »

Oh I know - I'm pretty handy myself.

I'm just musing really, on what it might be that, in my experience, makes a lot of automatic drivers even less attentive than drivers of manuals. One crackpot theory I have is that the necessity of focusing on the machine's transmission might be a good thing for learners, a sort of "anchor point", if you will.

As a matter of fact managing the transmission is, in a certain way, driving itself...ask a few learner drivers what's the thing they have the most difficulties with, and the vast majority will answer "clutch" or "gears". You hardly ever see learners that have difficulties directing the car where they want too...fine precision might not be there, but just about anyone can steer a car; Most of the learning is made in regards on managing starts, hill starts, gear changes and the likes...

jimgoose

H3llR4iser wrote: »

As a matter of fact managing the transmission is, in a certain way, driving itself...ask a few learner drivers what's the thing they have the most difficulties with, and the vast majority will answer "clutch" or "gears". You hardly ever see learners that have difficulties directing the car where they want too...fine precision might not be there, but just about anyone can steer a car; Most of the learning is made in regards on managing starts, hill starts, gear changes and the likes...

Tell me about it. I'm an ADI.

Sam Russell

H3llR4iser wrote: »

As a matter of fact managing the transmission is, in a certain way, driving itself...ask a few learner drivers what's the thing they have the most difficulties with, and the vast majority will answer "clutch" or "gears". You hardly ever see learners that have difficulties directing the car where they want too...fine precision might not be there, but just about anyone can steer a car; Most of the learning is made in regards on managing starts, hill starts, gear changes and the likes...

I think too many instructers take their learners out on the public road before they have mastered the basics of driving a car at low speed (less than 10 mph). It is easy to steer a car at 30 mph, but very difficult to steer it at 2 mph (particularly in restricted space as when parking). Look at how many drivers cannot parallel park a car, or reverse around a corner. Clutch control is easy if taught first (and properly).

The gear change is the least important skill but lack of it can be disasterous. Concentrating on it at the expense of the road spells accident.

H3llR4iser

jimgoose wrote: »

Tell me about it. I'm an ADI.

Lol, so you are against automatics with a vengeance, or no work for you

Kidding of course, but I do think most people simply underestimate the level of precision and fine tuning it takes to properly manage a car's transmission; Even amongst very experienced drivers (10+ years), you'll always find the ones who make starts and gear transitions as smooth as silk with no apparent effort, and the ones that rattle all the panels, screws, gears and bones every single time they drop the clutch.

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think too many instructers take their learners out on the public road before they have mastered the basics of driving a car at low speed (less than 10 mph). It is easy to steer a car at 30 mph, but very difficult to steer it at 2 mph (particularly in restricted space as when parking). Look at how many drivers cannot parallel park a car, or reverse around a corner. Clutch control is easy if taught first (and properly).

The gear change is the least important skill but lack of it can be disasterous. Concentrating on it at the expense of the road spells accident.

Maybe, but it's a bit less black and white than that. I do agree that is much more difficult to teach somebody how to steer the car around at low speeds, where a lot of steering is required, than say go along a country road making small corrections on the wheel to keep the car in lane. On the clutch control point, however, there's only so much that can be done in a parking lot - and all of that is immediately lost as soon as the learner hits the road with its varying conditions, slopes and pressure from the other drivers.

bmstuff

I love my automatic, I can smoke, eat my croissant, check internet/email, change album from my phone, hold the steering wheel at the same time. With a manual, no way.

Thud

i think in the US texting while driving is a bigger problem because it's easier to do if you're driving an automatic

KeithTS

Thud wrote: »

i think in the US texting while driving is a bigger problem because it's easier to do if you're driving an automatic

You do know you don't have to constantly hold the gear stick right?
It is possible to lift your hand off it, or even better use Skyvi or Siri so you no longer have to text people, you can dictate to your phone instead.

Ronnie Beck

bmstuff wrote: »

I love my automatic, I can smoke, eat my croissant, check internet/email, change album from my phone, hold the steering wheel at the same time. With a manual, no way.

That would be a no to the original question then?

Thud

KeithTS wrote: »

You do know you don't have to constantly hold the gear stick right?
It is possible to lift your hand off it, or even better use Skyvi or Siri so you no longer have to text people, you can dictate to your phone instead.

it's still going to be easier if you have one free hand all the tilme

http://jalopnik.com/genius-parents-curb-teens-distracted-driving-with-manu-496309265

galwaytt

keithclancy wrote: »

I don't care, I'll drive anything.

No idea why but I'm generally more aware of my speed in a manual.

Aware - or conscious (sic) ? What I mean is, in an automatic you drive at a certain speed, and the car choses the appropriate gear. In an manual people (incl myself) are inclined to 'chase the gears' - i.e. to keep progressing trying to get into 'top'. And then you discover that (may) be too high/fast for the particular section of road/traffic you're on.

In other words, an automatic is good for maintaining roadspeed at the required level. A manual, less so. That's my 0.02 anyway.

Tow wrote: »

I believe that the Irish insurance companies data shows the opposite, i.e. that in proportion automatics are involved in more accidents than manuals.
The reasons are open to debate.

Ah now Ted, figures or I'm calling........'waffle' !! :P

Zcott wrote: »

Interesting question. The question wouldn't exactly be answered by seeing the amount of automatic cars involved in accidents because there's the possibility that people who buy automatics are more, or less, prone to accidents.

There's the possibility that more automatics are involved in accidents because American tourists used to automatics would have an automatic hire car, be unfamiliar with driving on the left, and be involved in an a accident. Or older people who prefer not to have to deal with gears might drive an automatic, and are more prone to accidents. So it's really not about the cars causing accidents but the folks who choose to drive an automatic.

tbh I'd have thought trying to keep driving on the correct side of the road would be Priority 1. And if a junction or an overtake is involved, that's when it all goes bananas: at a junction they're inclined to turn right, into the oncoming lane. In an overtake, or a smaller road, presented with oncoming traffic, they're inclined to react first to pull to the right (PTTR) as they would at home. Which is 100% the wrong thing to do ! :eek:

Zcott wrote: »

FWIW my brother crashed his Smart in a car park by hitting the wrong pedal and crashing into the back of a someone. Also worth noting he's equally dangerous in a manual car.

Ah now, there's only 2 pedals - how hard can it be !! ?? :pac:

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Personally I think that, especially for a learner starting off, driving an auto allows you to actually focus on driving and awareness of your surroundings rather than the mechanics of controlling the car.

Exactly - I've trained my 2 x kids on motorbikes. First with an automatic, then a semi-automatic. Clutch model next. Allows them to build up one set of skills at a time: balance, control, braking, perception of speed & distance. What that lot is 2nd nature, the rest will be.............eas(ier)y.

wil

keithclancy wrote: »

I do notice that Auto Drivers (Especially German taxi drivers) tend to mash the pedal to the floor for no good reason when taking off at lights

That is how you drop a gear/ raise the revs in an automatic, so the (good?) reason is to accelerate faster from the lights.
Here in particular, with so many traffic lights, it is frustrating when people crawl away from the lights or at roundabouts in second gear with little regard for the queue of cars behind them trying to move in that small window.

I feel more engaged and in control in a manual than an automatic.

Road death stats are considerably worse in the USA than here or UK.
Despite bigger roads and slower driving it is likely due to lax training and license requirements, distractions with less adherence to rules.
There has also been more emphasis on making cars safer without same emphasis on drivers. Compare to Germanies much safer faster but otherwise rule abiding driving, you can understand why I cringe when I hear the misinformed blame most accidents on speed.

whomitconcerns

well i have an automatic for 6 months now..and i dont find more or less likely tbh...never had an accident in either though luckily.....id like to see the insurance data that says its more dangerous?

flanzer

bmstuff wrote: »

I love my automatic, I can smoke, eat my croissant, check internet/email, change album from my phone, hold the steering wheel at the same time. With a manual, no way.

Careful now....If the RSA and SIMI are reading this, they pedal the idea to ban all automatics in effort to stimulate the car market!

Victor Meldrew

jimgoose wrote: »

Driver's Ed is the mutt's nuts, to be sure. Although the actual driving test in most U.S. states is laughable. Good few years back we had an American visitor at the company I worked for. ...Got through (IIRC) three clutches in the six months. Consumables, wha'??

Did the yank test myself after a few months there and two runs in the boss's camry. Easy peasy, and in no way reflected driving on their big freeways..

Re your colleague, Just because you can't drive stick, this does not make you a bad driver. But thinking you can drive stick when you can't, does...

Victor Meldrew

H3llR4iser wrote: »

As a matter of fact managing the transmission is, in a certain way, driving itself...ask a few learner drivers what's the thing they have the most difficulties with, and the vast majority will answer "clutch" or "gears". You hardly ever see learners that have difficulties directing the car where they want to...fine precision might not be there, but just about anyone can steer a car; Most of the learning is made in regards on managing starts, hill starts, gear changes and the likes...

The guys on car talk always said that an auto lets you focus on steering and observation. Failing there causes accidents.

Many drivers are appalling on knowing their size and position on the road, I remember obsessing about gear shifts when learning AND when driving LHD on the continent. Driving an AUTO in the US was far easier as all i had to do was observe speed and lane position and traffic conditions.

Again, on the OP, actively selecting a slushbox because you find driving overwhelming (as is the case with many drivers in Ireland) is not going to make Autos seem safer.