Science in Schools

MagicMarker

Since when is science optional? I thought all students had to do at least one science subject?

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85048768#post85048768

It's actually depressing.

MagicMarker

Sorry, can't hyperlink, on mobile.

spurious

Not all schools have enough Science teachers to allow it to be compulsory and people are retiring all the time and not being replaced.

Galvasean

I assumed science was mandatory at JC level (no, not that! :eek: :pac: :eek:) but the three sciences (physics, biology and chemistry) were optional for LC.
Sad really. There's no science in primary school (unless your teacher is great and does it off their own back) and many secondary schools don't provide it. It's a rotten system.

dirkmeister

Galvasean wrote: »

Sad really. There's no science in primary school (unless your teacher is great and does it off their own back)

Incorrect. It's found under S.E.S.E.

Galvasean

dirkmeister wrote: »

Incorrect. It's found under S.E.S.E.

Interesting... Sounds good.
http://www.curriculumonline.ie/en/Primary_School_Curriculum/Social_Environmental_and_Scientific_Education_SESE_/Science/

Is it a mandatory subject?

dirkmeister

Galvasean wrote: »

Interesting... Sounds good.
http://www.curriculumonline.ie/en/Primary_School_Curriculum/Social_Environmental_and_Scientific_Education_SESE_/Science/

Is it a mandatory subject?

Yes, as with all subjects Science is mandatory in Primary Schools. S.E.S.E gets 3 hours per week, normally divided up as an hour for each subject.

rainbow kirby

My secondary school allowed students to drop it in favour of Home Economics after 1st year. They had more than enough teachers to cover science for anyone who wanted to do it, they just placed sweet feck all value on it. All girls convent schools, dontcha know - let people close off a lot of career options for themselves, but it's ok because they can cook a bit :rolleyes:

Mardy Bum

rainbow kirby wrote: »

My secondary school allowed students to drop it in favour of Home Economics after 1st year. They had more than enough teachers to cover science for anyone who wanted to do it, they just placed sweet feck all value on it. All girls convent schools, dontcha know - let people close off a lot of career options for themselves, but it's ok because they can cook a bit :rolleyes:

This is a timetabling issue though rather than a neglect of it. Home economics does contain a good bit of science admittedly food related.

Cosmicfox

My primary school textbooks science chapters were always skipped. We just did loads of geography instead.

You could drop science completely after first year.

MagicMarker

Schools seem to be a bit **** when it comes to advising their students.

As a student myself, just over from England, I had to refine what subjects I'd be studying after the JC. Of course the LC and college applications were not even close to being on my mind as a 14/15 year old. I just dropped what I didn't like, which happened to be French, I was also exempt from Irish.

No one thought to tell me that by dropping a language I'd be excluding myself from applying to about 85% of 3rd level courses. :mad:

shruikan2553

They dont need science, can spend the time doing extra Irish and religion!

MagicMarker wrote: »

Schools seem to be a bit **** when it comes to advising their students.

As a student myself, just over from England, I had to refine what subjects I'd be studying after the JC. Of course the LC and college applications were not even close to being on my mind as a 14/15 year old. I just dropped what I didn't like, which happened to be French, I was also exempt from Irish.

No one thought to tell me that by dropping a language I'd be excluding myself from applying to about 85% of 3rd level courses. :mad:

Luckily the NUI/UC group of unis dont require a language for science or engineering courses. Wish someone told me this instead of me wasting my time doing a pass subject when I could of done a subject at honours I was good at.

mohawk

dirkmeister wrote: »

Yes, as with all subjects Science is mandatory in Primary Schools. S.E.S.E gets 3 hours per week, normally divided up as an hour for each subject.

I went to primary school in England. I had to do SATs and science, maths and english were examined (and taught in equal measure). We spent far more then 1 hour a week on science. (We also didn't spend hours a week on religion.) When I moved back to Ireland my friends were learning science for the first time in secondary school.

I have heard stories of secondary schools offering a choice between business studies and science for the JC.
Science is needed for so many college courses. What the hell does a 12 year old know about picking subjects?

wonderfulname

It was compulsory for me in the JC and students were actively encouraged to take a science for the leaving to keep their options open for the future, it was extremely odd for someone not to iirc, people would ask you which science you were taking, not if you were taking one. I'm now aware it's not the norm but I figured I'd throw a positive example into this thread.

Doctor Strange

I do understand that a good amount of people find science "boring"... but really, a basic comprehension is necessary.

KyussBishop

Switch Religion for Critical Thinking, and Irish for a science. Wonder what it would take to actually make it happen.

Kiwi in IE

It seems as a parent here you cannot rely on the education system to inform and prepare your child properly at all. Clearly I am going to have to do science as homeschooling throughout primary school, teach critical thinking and proper ethics (as opposed to religious 'morals'), and become an expert on exactly what is needed for entry into which college course when he hits secondary school! Well I guess it's good I know that now as he is starting primary school rather than find out too late.

I might order the science text books used in the equivelant of junior and senior infants from NZ.

kylith

mohawk wrote: »

What the hell does a 12 year old know about picking subjects?

Even as a 12 year old I realised that it was ridiculous. I knew that I had no idea what career I wanted, and I thought that it was stupid that I had to make decisions which would effect the rest of my life when I was so young.

eviltwin

My eldest is going into 5th year. Both chemistry and physics have been dropped from their LC subject choice due to "funding issues". They don't offer Religion as an exam subject but will be still required to attend 1.5 hours of religion class per week. Nuts and depressing.

Kiwi that is a great idea. I think I might get my brother in law in London to send me over some books for my youngest so I can basically home school him in science.

Kiwi in IE

eviltwin wrote: »

My eldest is going into 5th year. Both chemistry and physics have been dropped from their LC subject choice due to "funding issues". They don't offer Religion as an exam subject but will be still required to attend 1.5 hours of religion class per week. Nuts and depressing.

Kiwi that is a great idea. I think I might get my brother in law in London to send me over some books for my youngest so I can basically home school him in science.

What on earth are you supposed to do in that situation if LC chemistry, biology or both are required for entrance to the college course your kid wants to do?

Feck, I thought religion was the only real problem with the Irish education system and it was otherwise pretty good! Seems not.

Mardy Bum

If the public knew the difficulties involved in timetabling across the country this year they would be outraged. Its not really going to make the papers though.

eviltwin

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

What on earth are you supposed to do in that situation if LC chemistry, biology or both are required for entrance to the college course your kid wants to do?

Feck, I thought religion was the only real problem with the Irish education system and it was otherwise pretty good! Seems not.

Tough basically, you go elsewhere or find something else you want to do instead.

rainbow kirby

eviltwin wrote: »

My eldest is going into 5th year. Both chemistry and physics have been dropped from their LC subject choice due to "funding issues". They don't offer Religion as an exam subject but will be still required to attend 1.5 hours of religion class per week. Nuts and depressing.

Similar thing happened in my old school - the only physics teacher retired when my younger sister was in Transition Year, physics hasn't been offered since. Of course, gotta have 4 religion classes a week... :rolleyes:

MagicMarker

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

What on earth are you supposed to do in that situation if LC chemistry, biology or both are required for entrance to the college course your kid wants to do?

Feck, I thought religion was the only real problem with the Irish education system and it was otherwise pretty good! Seems not.

The only other option really is to study those subjects in your own time, grinds will probably be a necessity. Plus you'd probably have to find another school that will allow you to sit the exam.

coffee_cake

My place did applied maths, students from other local schools came in to do it with us. It was set in the evening so they could come after school
Might have to do something similar if you're stuck for a subject
Thank christ I never had religion in secondary school

Gumbi

bluewolf wrote: »

Thank christ I never had religion in secondary school

Why not?

Religion was mostly a wishy-washy ethics/study/waste of time class in my school. Some thing we did were bothersome, but I don't have feelings as strong about such subjects back then as I do now :P

coffee_cake

Gumbi wrote: »

Why not?

Wasn't done

lazygal

I think I might be an exception here. My secondary school had great science teachers (one of whom was a nun!) and really good labs. Physics, chemistry and biology were all offered at higher level right through to the leaving cert and during transition year we all did several science programmes. The Young Scientist Exhibition was always touted as something we should do, and lots us did it. I'm not in touch with many of the women I was in school with, but my best friend who I see regularly is a scientist, as is another mutual friend, and a few others went into science-eque careers.

I'm not trumpeting my school as brilliant overall, but even though it was an all girls convent school we were always encouraged to do science/higher level maths, and higher level was the norm rather than the exception.

Sarky

I had much the same. Well, I can't speak for chemistry, I had lousy teachers up until the junior cert that could never explain it well, so I dropped it in favour of physics and biology, which were excellently taught, physics in particular by the most rational and non-insane priest I've ever met. I do regret dropping chemistry now, it makes some aspects of microbiology far harder to grasp.

Still, plenty of people dropped the lot of them because they wanted easier subjects. Damn fools.

Manach

Offhand my own secondary school actively encouraged visits from scientists from the local university to encourage careers in that discipline. I had found the talks both informative and formative.
An exception in chemistry though - given the number of beakers smashed, strange liquids splashed on the lab floor and steam propelled tubes flying across the room, I decided that branch was not for me.

mohawk

eviltwin wrote: »

My eldest is going into 5th year. Both chemistry and physics have been dropped from their LC subject choice due to "funding issues". They don't offer Religion as an exam subject but will be still required to attend 1.5 hours of religion class per week. Nuts and depressing.

Kiwi that is a great idea. I think I might get my brother in law in London to send me over some books for my youngest so I can basically home school him in science.

So no future engineers in that school. Physics would also be useful for plenty of computer related careers (aren't there jobs in IT sector).

My school refused to run an economics class for my year as there wasn't enough demand, but ran a chemistry class that had less demand in order not to rule out any courses for us at third level.
I remember the religion class as being a bit of a welcome break after double maths. It was a little chance to switch off the brain.