Ex trying to change our childs last name

LegacyUser

Hi Guys,

Any advice please

My ex has asked me to agree to change our 10 month old baby to her last name instead of mine, i have not agreed to this as i would like our child to have my name as agreed and is on thier birth cert.

I pay manitaneance and see my baby once a week and every second weekend, i dont have legal guardianship yet as we are going to court in the coming weeks so i can get that and have the access times put in paper.

I can understand her side as she is saying that she is raising our child everyday(in my opionion we are technically both raising our child,she just has custody of her) and wants her to be called by her name,she also trys to persued me by saying "what if whens shes older she asks why shd doesnt have my(her mothers) last name,what do i tell her then?" My reasoning is steaming from that fact she does have our child everyday of her life and is always going to be the main person in her life,she gets to see our child everyday and be the one she always goes to with any problems in the future and i would like her to have my last name so when she is called by it at least she will think of me,even for that split second at least and remember me when im not there.

Is my reasoning selfish?

She is going to court over this and i would just like anybodys experience or advice on this subject.

Thanks

irishgirl19

I can see both sides. She is probably thinking if she has any more kids they will be different names maybe

Is a double barrell name out of the question

username123

It would make life marginally easier for everyone if the child had the custodial parents name. There are ancedotal tales of issues with travel (cant say I know anyone its happened to).

Ive a divorced and remarried friend whose older children beg her to continue to use her originally married name for school stuff as they are embarrassed to have a mammy with a different name.

The fact that its a daughter means she may not continue to hold either surname later on if she chooses to change her name on marriage anyway.

I cant really see any practical reason that you want her to have your name over her mothers name, presumably if you want her to think of you and remember you it will be because you will be an important role model in her life and not just a name on a cert.

Im sorry, I dont think once a week visitation constitutes raising a child. I had an aunt who visited once a week, I never consider her to have raised me.

Stench Blossoms

It doesn't really matter OP as she can use her name on school records etc and if I remember correctly, if it's used in public records etc she can get a passport with it.

LegacyUser

hi op here.

Irish girl thanks for your advise,that something i will bring, i would certainly be happy with that outcome

Username 123- regarding my visits, i see her once a week and then have her over nights every second weekend,which is what was agreed and allowed, im sorry if you dont think that time spent is raising my child but that is still me having a part of her life and making sure i give her the bes experience with me while she is with me on those times and any interaction in her fathers life is still considered (in my opinion) rasing a child and having an influence on her, i find your reference to your aunt a bit unfair in that regard as this is all i am permitted but thank you for your feed back all the same

LegacyUser

OP, in this part of the World it's custom that all children take their father's name. Even your ex is, I presume, taking her father's surname and not her mother's?

Chances are she will call the child by her surname in any case, regardless what's on any official documentation. As to whether the birth cert can be changed? Legal advice may be necessary.

Honey-ec

As far as I'm aware, it's extremely difficult to change the name on the actual birth cert; it's only possible in certain circumstances.

If she wants to legally change your daughter's name, she'll have to do so by deed poll, and because your daughter is under 14, your ex would need your consent to execute the deed poll.

Names can also be changed by "common usage", which basically means that if you can prove that you've been going by a certain name for long enough, you can have official documents issued in that name. However, if only your name is on the birth cert, I don't know if your ex could actually enrol your daughter in school, say, under a different name, meaning it could be very difficult for her to prove common usage for quite some time.

Can you clarify, is your surname the only name given to your daughter on her birth cert?

ash23

Sorry OP but I can see why the mother is feeling this way. As the one who has the child 80% of the time, I assume she deals with all the day to day stuff. Like doctors and passports and she will be dealing with school and so on. She is doing the majority of the work. I don't know if this is your choice or hers but unless you have 50/50 custody, then I can't buy that you are "both raising her".


Double barrell is probably the fairest but I have to say OP, odds are that she will start using her own surname for the child and as she is the one doing the majority of the parenting, you won't be in a position to prevent it.

Fairest all around is 50/50 joint custody and a double barrell surname.

LegacyUser

Honey-ec wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, it's extremely difficult to change the name on the actual birth cert; it's only possible in certain circumstances.

If she wants to legally change your daughter's name, she'll have to do so by deed poll, and because your daughter is under 14, your ex would need your consent to execute the deed poll.

Names can also be changed by "common usage", which basically means that if you can prove that you've been going by a certain name for long enough, you can have official documents issued in that name. However, if only your name is on the birth cert, I don't know if your ex could actually enrol your daughter in school, say, under a different name, meaning it could be very difficult for her to prove common usage for quite some time.

Can you clarify, is your surname the only name given to your daughter on her birth cert?

Hi op here, her name is standard, first,middle and last(my name), my name and her mothers name are on the birth cert,,i am not agreeing to a full last name change by deed pole as i feel i will be losing some connection to my daughter and i am aware that it is up to me to be in her life and make my own connection and relationship with her, which is what im doing but i am entertaining the idea of a double barrell as i can see where my ex is coming from and at least that way she would have both.

But im not sure if my ex will go for it and im just asking will her request be fulfilled or has anyone gone through this before? as i remember being told when we were filling out the birth cert that it is very difficult to change her last name in the future,only if we get married can it basically be changed

LegacyUser

ash23 wrote: »

Sorry OP but I can see why the mother is feeling this way. As the one who has the child 80% of the time, I assume she deals with all the day to day stuff. Like doctors and passports and she will be dealing with school and so on. She is doing the majority of the work. I don't know if this is your choice or hers but unless you have 50/50 custody, then I can't buy that you are "both raising her".


Double barrell is probably the fairest but I have to say OP, odds are that she will start using her own surname for the child and as she is the one doing the majority of the parenting, you won't be in a position to prevent it.

Fairest all around is 50/50 joint custody and a double barrell surname.

Hi you are right,she does deal with that stuff at the moment,i would be more than happy too if given the chance but im not told about it, she keeps me in the dark on a lot of things she is doing in this regard and i have asked to be more involved which is why im getting legal guardianship, as this way i will have some input into her life which is what i want, id love to be more involved in my daughters life but at the moment she makes it difficult

Honey-ec

bananaRep12 wrote: »

OP, in this part of the World it's custom that all children take their father's name. Even your ex is, I presume, taking her father's surname and not her mother's?

Eh, "all" is a bit of a stretch. That was certainly the case when the majority of children were born into a married, nuclear family but as family dynamics have changed over the past generation or so, I'd say that the vast majority of children born to unmarried parents in this country use the mother's name or double-barrel.

meeeeh

I have no emotional connection to surnames (my kids have fathers because it makes more sense considering mine is foreign) and I don't know how easy it is to legally change the name but for practical reasons I think having primal carer's surname is beneficial. I just think it's a silly argument to have.

ivytwine

Hey OP, I was your kid. My mother tried to have me registered as my dad's name but because the red tape was so complicated (they weren't married) she gave up. They were still together at this stage and back almost 25 years ago the authorities were quite inflexible and unchanging.

So I have my mother's name. Actually no, I don't. My mother was married before my dad so I have my mother's ex husband's name. It's a very unusual and quite a silly name. I actually dislike it a lot. I also feel it's hurtful to my dad to have a name of a man who isn't even my father.

My Dad's surname is a nice, if a little uncommon, Irish surname and I'd much rather have it. Have thought of changing it, but would be so much hassle. I also figure that when I (hopefully) get married someday I would take my husband's name so one name change per life is enough.

So I think you should talk this out with your ex. Nobody would think her having your surname is unusual; my cousin and one of my closest friends both have different surnames to their mothers, both of whom went back to their maiden name. They have their fathers' names. I don't think it will make life awkward for her necessarily.

I think double barrelled names sound a little silly, especially with Irish surnames. Just my opinion.

As a father, I can understand why this is getting to you. You probably feel like you're being phased out. But believe me, no matter whose surname your baby has, she won't love you any less.

Wait until the court stuff is sorted before agreeing to anything. If your name is on the birth cert it may be quite hard for her to change it. I believe you have to go through absolute hoops to change anything on a birth cert.

omahaid

OP, if you love your child and your name is already the childs surname on the birth cert then you shouldn't budge. Why should you?

Citycap

Don't allow this to happen. If the childs mother decides to go in to another relationship, marry and perhaps emigrate you will be out of the picture very quickly. Never mind her argument about having to deal with problems down the line etc. Its a regular situation on most schools etc that a child has a different name to either the mother or father. If she can't cope with a little inconvenience perhaps she would be better giving you full custody.
I'm sure that if you won the Lotto she wouldn't stop you giving the child or herself a cheque with your surname on it.

clairefontaine

My personal taste says kids should have their dads names. I know people use double barrels but they look awkward and weird.

The only reason I can see for her wanting to use her name is to avoid her being addressed as mrs (insert your last name). And this is understandable.

Perhaps use one of your last names as a middle one.

username123

needadviceplease wrote: »

Username 123- regarding my visits, i see her once a week and then have her over nights every second weekend,which is what was agreed and allowed, im sorry if you dont think that time spent is raising my child but that is still me having a part of her life and making sure i give her the bes experience with me while she is with me on those times and any interaction in her fathers life is still considered (in my opinion) rasing a child and having an influence on her, i find your reference to your aunt a bit unfair in that regard as this is all i am permitted but thank you for your feed back all the same

Sorry, I didnt mean to imply you werent involved (or didnt want to be), I was more just looking at it from a practical day to day type of thing - your ex is the one who is there during the night, when the child is ill, for school, buying clothes, organising activities etc.... I just think its probably easier if the person doing all that has the same name - but in fairness, its a minor thing really - its not that hard to say "my daughters name is xxx and mine is yyy".

Im not really fussy about surnames, Id tend to take the easy road - what a person is named has no bearing on their relationships with their parents or anyone else.

Im sorry if I caused you any offence, I was thinking aloud and should have been more careful in what I said.

mygoat

I sort of understand why it is so important for fathers to give their children their surnames. I see it as one of a very few palpable symbols of the child belonging to the father just as much as to the mother. We women have plenty of evidence that our children belong to us: the conception happens in our bodies, the child grows inside of us - we can feel it, and everyone around us can see it, we experience giving birth to our children in a very intense, real way (men frequently feel helpless, and out of place in delivery rooms - because there is so little they can do!), and then if something goes wrong with the relationship, the child is automatically assumed to be belonging to the mother more than to the father.

OP, if I was a man and found myself in your situation, I'd wish for my child to keep my surname too. It may be a bit inconvenient for the child's mum, but I'd have liked to preserve and cherish this symbolic connection between me and my child. Actually, I think I'd feel quite strongly about it, especially if I couldn't be involved in my child's life full time. I feel that Username123's comment that once a week visitation doesn't constitute raising a child, only strengthens my argument.

needadviceplease

needadviceplease wrote: »

"what if whens shes older she asks why shd doesnt have my(her mothers) last name,what do i tell her then?"

That is a bit of strange thing to say. At this point, you both intend on you staying in her life. If the girl has a father figure, why would she wonder at having his name.

ABajaninCork

Frankly, I don't see the problem. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. I'd have thought changing the name on the birth cert by deed poll would be FAR more hassle!

My brother has three kids. Two have his surname. The other does not, although he is named as the father on the birth cert. Doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

LegacyUser

Hi OP - So I'm also your kid. My fathers name was put on the birth cert. I saw him ever other weekend and once a week as a child but to me I was raised by my mother and I don't like the fact I have my fathers surname.

I seen loads of people here saying it doesn't make a difference but to me it does. If it wasn't for the effort of having to change everything in my life now (accounts, car, mortgage, work id, passport, bills etc ) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Practicality wise, it was a pain sometimes - why is your surname and mothers surname different etc when filing out form. I sometimes think it was noseiness more than anything.

If the child's mother has most of the custody time, I'd let her make the change to be honest.

fungun

"She is going to court over this"

Id be surprised if any court can order you to agree to a name change. See below for details on it, looks like both parents must consent. Question is how much angst it may cause versus how much you care about this. also seems like you cant typically change it on regoster of births.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/changing_your_name_by_deed_poll.html

Changing the surname of a child
The surname of a child can be changed in the Register of Births but only in certain circumstances. However, the surname of a child can also be changed by deed poll or common usage. Children aged between 14 and 17 years can execute the Deed Poll themselves but need the consent of both parents. Where a child is under the age of 14 years, one of the child's parents must execute the Deed Poll with the consent of the other parent.

Chara1001

I insisted on a double barreled surname for my baby when he was born, his father and i were not married. He wanted the baby's surname to be his only and i absolutely refused, a double barreled surname was the only way we could meet in the middle about it, yes it might look or sound silly to those who don't like them but i really don't care, it's his name and he can shorten it when he's older if he wants. And i am glad i insisted as we broke up just after the birth, the child is the same age as yours now, and i would HATE for him not to share my name, so i can see your exes point here.

Having said that, I totally understand where you're coming from, you don't have to change it to just hers, i would have a big problem with that also, but you might think about a double barreled name, i can't see any other solution. Difficulties can arise with taking flights where the child is travelling with an adult who doesn't have the same surname, and i believe with certain official documents (you need to check this). But it might help make things easier and you're not giving up that important link to you.

December2012

Go double barrelled then - a compromise

LegacyUser

Been_There wrote: »

Hi OP - So I'm also your kid. My fathers name was put on the birth cert. I saw him ever other weekend and once a week as a child but to me I was raised by my mother and I don't like the fact I have my fathers surname.

I seen loads of people here saying it doesn't make a difference but to me it does. If it wasn't for the effort of having to change everything in my life now (accounts, car, mortgage, work id, passport, bills etc ) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Practicality wise, it was a pain sometimes - why is your surname and mothers surname different etc when filing out form. I sometimes think it was noseiness more than anything.

If the child's mother has most of the custody time, I'd let her make the change to be honest.

Hi been there,op here

Unlike you I didnt have my father in my life and due to this fact I have my mother's name,however if he had made an effort to see me and been in my life the way I am with my daughter I may have taken his name but you can rest assured I am going to make sure I am nothing like my father and be in my daughters life as much as I possibly can and I think I should have some connection to her by name for this fact

Im sorry to hear you do not like your father's nane and the fact you say he was in your life as child leads me to belive he may not have continued this connection further into your teenage and adult life and if that is the case I can fully see you point however I cannot verify if he did or did not as I dont know you but I do hope he was and you have some happy memories with him

LegacyUser

username123 wrote: »

Sorry, I didnt mean to imply you werent involved (or didnt want to be), I was more just looking at it from a practical day to day type of thing - your ex is the one who is there during the night, when the child is ill, for school, buying clothes, organising activities etc.... I just think its probably easier if the person doing all that has the same name - but in fairness, its a minor thing really - its not that hard to say "my daughters name is xxx and mine is yyy".

Im not really fussy about surnames, Id tend to take the easy road - what a person is named has no bearing on their relationships with their parents or anyone else.

Im sorry if I caused you any offence, I was thinking aloud and should have been more careful in what I said.

no worries,thanks for your input

triseke

Op, do you have "guardianship" of your child? I ask because in Ireland, unless you and the child's mother were married, you have no legal rights over the child.

If you don't, get cracking with it ASAP! It's a form that you take to a solicitors to be notarised. Check out treoir.ie for more concrete info.

irishgirl19

triseke wrote: »

Op, do you have "guardianship" of your child? I ask because in Ireland, unless you and the child's mother were married, you have no legal rights over the child.

If you don't, get cracking with it ASAP! It's a form that you take to a solicitors to be notarised. Check out treoir.ie for more concrete info.

He is applying for guardianship before the courts he said

clairefontaine

I was at a recital recently in the US where young kids were presenting. The programme had all their names listed. There were about 80 names in total. Four were double barrelled out of the 80, and all four had an Irish name in them.

Is the double barrell for kids an Irish custom? I haven't seen it elsewhere.

Paddy Cow

clairefontaine wrote: »

I was at a recital recently in the US where young kids were presenting. The programme had all their names listed. There were about 80 names in total. Four were double barrelled out of the 80, and all four had an Irish name in them.

Is the double barrell for kids an Irish custom? I haven't seen it elsewhere.

Double barrell names used to be for high born women who married lower than themselves. That way their father's name didn't die out completely.

It's not exclusively an Irish thing and loads of people have double names and most of them hate them. I wish adults would act like adults and pick one name for the kid and not put them in the awkward situation of having to chose as an adult. What happens when a double barrell meets a double barrell? Do they have four surnames? :eek:

A2LUE42

OP It would seem to me that it may be that your Ex is doing this to spite you. It also sounds like you have a raw deal as far as the so called joint custody goes. You should leave the name as is. She is your child too. I wish you the best.
You may have to suffer being called a part time father, while being prevented from spending any more time with her. Unfortunately that has been my experience.