Vodafone Shares: Sell or hold onto them

mauraf

Hi there
I have some Vodafone shares that are maturing at the moment. Wondering - would it be worth my while keeping them at the moment or selling them?

Given talks of chats with Verizon and AT&T, I am not sure what to do.

Just lookoing for thoughts on what others would do?

Thanks!

Maura

Cute Hoor

mauraf wrote: »

Hi there
I have some Vodafone shares that are maturing at the moment. Wondering - would it be worth my while keeping them at the moment or selling them?

Given talks of chats with Verizon and AT&T, I am not sure what to do.

Just lookoing for thoughts on what others would do?

Thanks!

Maura

Not sure what you mean by 'maturing' but why sell Maura? If you need the money for sure sell and you've hopefully made a nice few bob for yourself. If you don't need the money, well unless you've something better to put it into isn't it grand where it is, paying you a nice little dividend (better than any deposit rate you can get) and with the Verizon bit to play out it looks safe enough for the moment. Probably won't turn you into Warren Buffett but probably won't have you up before the bankruptcy courts in London either.

Cute Hoor

Maybe you should have sold yesterday!!
Down nearly 5% (a big drop for Vodafone) this morning, not sure why, maybe because of the Kabel bid rumour, although you'd think that might be positive news

Edit: Went ex-dividend this morning of course which would explain much of the drop. Now confirmed bid for Kabel as well.

arrowloopboy

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Maybe you should have sold yesterday!!
Down nearly 5% (a big drop for Vodafone) this morning, not sure why, maybe because of the Kabel bid rumour, although you'd think that might be positive news

Edit: Went ex-dividend this morning of course which would explain much of the drop. Now confirmed bid for Kabel as well.

And a nice fat divi too:P.

mauraf

Thanks all,
Keeping a close eye on them this morning - and saw the drop!!Eeekkk! My gut is to leave them where they are, and sell when I need the funds....you are right I think Cutehoor, will make more for me there than in a deposit account, plus I (could) get a nice dividend from them from time to time....

PS - they better start moving up!

daveirl

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Sonnenblumen

All the key metrics and performance indicators are reasonable according to the very well presented annual report Y/E 31.03.2013, and divi+7%.

A reasonably reliable steady eddy share (but we heard that said about Banks) but I would trust VF more so. 400+mio customers and a top global brand.

Interesting to see what might be if any are the medium term consequences following share buybacks and if VF eventually decides to sells it's interests in Verizon?

Good for paying rent money but not a new Porsche. Still SP under water from Eircell days:(

mauraf

Thanks for all the replies - all!
Leaving them for the moment in the hope that something will come out of the Verizon talks that will send them through the roof :-)!!

NGUYEN01

Well Vodafone have made the sale to Verizon - anyone know what the payout will be for shareholders?

love that turbo

£1.12 per share

mauraf

Not bad - anyone know when that payout will be? Bet they wont for a while....

youtube!

I know sweet FA about these kind of things but I do know I along with a lot of other naive eejits purchased about a grand worth of these shares when eircom or eircell or whoever it was sold on years ago.

I get a statement from computershare every now and again to tell me my shares are worth a measly few euro so my question is what will these be worth now and is it easy to sell them.

I have no interest in keeping them and if I get some of my money back I will be happy. Never going to dip my toe in those particular waters again anyway thats for sure!

I think I have the certificate somewhere but if not will it cost an inordinate amount to retrieve it?

Any advice is much appreciated:)

daveirl

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gordongekko

According to the Sunday times "its not clear what the exact split will be" its expected to be .98 c per share.

joeysoap

Vodafone sell their shares to Verizon, and pay their shareholders a special dividend.

Question: Assume the current price has taken account of this dividend, so after its paid out the share price will plummet to reflect the fact that they no longer have any interest in Verizon.

If I sell now there will be no profit as the shares have still not reached the purchase price = no tax to pay on sold shares

If I hold on and receive the special dividend, and they pay say £1 - €1.20 per share I will get approx €3000. Of which the revenue will take 41% tax, possibly 7% usc and possibly 4% prsi (not altogether clear on the latter two) but minimum tax of €1250.
Leaving me with approx 2600 shares at around £1 in value. Under this scenario I make the net value of my current holding under €5,000 (Net €1750 from dividend and value of remaining shares €3120 = total under €5,000)

Better to sell the 2,600 shares at £2 (approx €6300) and pay no tax?

seems a no brainer to me but have I got it correct?

draiochtanois

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uncle_mick

the way things are looking right now , I don't think anyone can afford to sell any stocks , ive gained 23% in less than three months on bmw shares yet the thing has gone up from where I sold out at 79 .75 euro , 2013 could be the first year in a long time where no correction worth talking about occurred , august has been the only weak month in America and the loss was a measly 2%

mauraf

Hi there,

I have approx 4k vodafone shares. Not sure whether best option is to hang onto them and await the one off payment, or sell them now while they are at a high.
While the money would always be handy - I am not in dire need of it at the moment - so either option works really - just want the best ROI I can get.

What would you do in my shoes?

Maura

draiochtanois

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mauraf

I used to be an employee...had over 8k earlier in the year, sold approx half of them to cover tax (BIK)....and now left with just over 4k.

Currently being taxed in the higher tax bracket.

That make sense?

joeysoap

uncle_mick wrote: »

the way things are looking right now , I don't think anyone can afford to sell any stocks , ive gained 23% in less than three months on bmw shares yet the thing has gone up from where I sold out at 79 .75 euro , 2013 could be the first year in a long time where no correction worth talking about occurred , august has been the only weak month in America and the loss was a measly 2%

will you kindly pass that information on to my pension administrators, please.

Sonnenblumen

VF SP > £ 2.2 (5 yr + high) !! Happy Days:D

2014 will also be a great year for VF shareholders.;)

martyoo

2014 will also be a great year for VF shareholders.

So come December will the SP fall the value of the Verizon deal or how do you reckon it will pan out?

draiochtanois

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martyoo

well I sold yesterday

Can I ask why you didn't choose to wait for the payout from the Verizon deal?

daveirl

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draiochtanois

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joeysoap

martyoo wrote: »

Can I ask why you didn't choose to wait for the payout from the Verizon deal?

41% :eek: tax, 7% :eek: usc (and maybe 4% :eek: prsi) a good enough reason?

Sonnenblumen

joeysoap wrote: »

41% :eek: tax, 7% :eek: usc (and maybe 4% :eek: prsi) a good enough reason?

At £2.26 I don't think so?

joeysoap

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

At £2.26 I don't think so?

if you are working and paying 41% tax then the tax on this special dividend will be 41%. Ditto USC @ 7%. think it might still be a prsi free zone not completely sure on that. In last years budget he announced that all savings etc would be liable for prsi but think he changed that again this year when he :mad: increased the dirt from 33% to 41%.

Cute Hoor

Vodafone/Verizon have come up with a tax efficient method of paying out this dividend ( a couple of options, the more beneficial will depend on your tax circumstances), I can't remember the exact details but it was well explained in the Sunday Business Post of 15/9 (unfortunately you cannot view 'freely' online).

Sonnenblumen

joeysoap wrote: »

if you are working and paying 41% tax then the tax on this special dividend will be 41%. Ditto USC @ 7%. think it might still be a prsi free zone not completely sure on that. In last years budget he announced that all savings etc would be liable for prsi but think he changed that again this year when he :mad: increased the dirt from 33% to 41%.

Every VF shareholder will receive for each share a bonus payment (ie FREE MONEY) of approx. £1.20p/share, Irish shareholders must declare this income to Rev and pay up to approx. 50% in Irish taxes/levies, leaving approx. 60p/share profit. Post payment, the value of VF shares will most likely fall, but they will be falling from a much higher point on the graph.

Where's the issue?

Sonnenblumen

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Vodafone/Verizon have come up with a tax efficient method of paying out this dividend ( a couple of options, the more beneficial will depend on your tax circumstances), I can't remember the exact details but it was well explained in the Sunday Business Post of 15/9 (unfortunately you cannot view 'freely' online).

Can anyone cut and paste the article? I would be interested to read it too. I suspect making some of the bonus payment in shares might reduce the tax liability?

joeysoap

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Every VF shareholder will receive for each share a bonus payment (ie FREE MONEY) of approx. £1.20p/share, Irish shareholders must declare this income to Rev and pay up to approx. 50% in Irish taxes/levies, leaving approx. 60p/share profit. Post payment, the value of VF shares will most likely fall, but they will be falling from a much higher point on the graph.

Where's the issue?

just trying to work out which is better: hold and receive dividend and pay 48% in taxes or sell at say €2.60 and pay no tax (still at below purchase price and there is the tax exemption of €1270)

800 shares with a dividend of €1.50 would yield a gross of €1,200 with a net of €625 and a much reduced share price after the dividend , perhaps as low as £1 per share.

sell 800 @ €2.60 and you gross €2,100 but if this is below the purchase price then its also the net amount.

so in one scenario you still have retained 800 shares maybe worth £1 each (say €1,000) plus a net dividend of €625 = approx €1625

or sell shares and net €2,100?

Looking for help here to decide best course of action. Aware that shares might actually climb again at some future point and that €2,100 will earn fa in interest nowadays with the 41% dirt tax)

Cute Hoor

See attached from the Vodafone website

http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/investors/verizon_wireless_transaction/faq.yes.html#WhatWillIGet

ei9go

"•Under the B share scheme, shareholders will be issued bonus shares which will then either be cancelled in exchange for cash and Verizon shares, or the holders will receive cash and Verizon shares in settlement of a special distribution on the bonus shares, depending on their choices


•Shareholders who are individuals and who are tax resident in the UK and Ireland will receive capital gains tax treatment if they choose for their bonus shares to be cancelled, and will receive income tax treatment if they choose the special distribution."

So does this mean that you will receive cash and verizon shares and it all will be treated under capital gains?

draiochtanois

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Sonnenblumen

SP now £2.30 and interesting piece in Telegraph today about strong rumours that AT&T will (according to Bloomberg) launch a takeover bid for VF in 2014. VF SP +4 % on Fri.

Tempting to purchase more VF shares.

joeysoap

I think the best option for me is to take the cash payment under the capital option and to sell the venizon shares at no cost before April. This allows all holders to claim the €1270 capital gains allowance. The only problem is to find out what the Venizon shares cost or deemed to cost in order to minimise or even nullify any CGT due on the cash payment combined with sales of Venizon shares ie total cash received from cash payment and Venizon shares sold.


According to the Sunday Times The Revenue Commissioners decreed the cost of Vodaphone shares in 2001 was €4.66. I don't suppose they have yet decreed the cost of the Venizon shares. For every Vodaphone share held the cash payment is roughly 30p and the Venizon share is roughly 75p, Allowing the current Vodaphone share price is approx £2.40 this would equate to the Venizon share dividend (75P) being approx 30% of the full share price (£2.40)
So will the revenue accept 30% of €4.66 (€1.40) which would mean that there is no capital gains tax due on Venizon shares sold?

pneireland

hi everyone - hope you can help me with the vodafone share offer thing.
i got the massive vodafone mail in the post the other day and not understanding most of it i just dumped the big thick booklet they sent but at least i kept the forms that came with it !! there are 4 forms, a yellow one called general meeting form of proxy, a blue one called court meeting form of proxy, a white one called form of election: return of value 2014 and another white one called dealing form. what i want to do is to get the one euro and whatever nbr of cents it is per share without having to pay any form of tax and im just wondering which of these forms do i fill in to make sure they dont tax me on any of it ! Im not sure if its the dealing form i need to fill in or the form of election: return of value 2014...for those of you who know, would one of you direct me please and tell me which boxes i need to tick on which of these forms?....many thanks in advance.....im dopey at this kind of thing to be honest !! i understand that if i dont fill in anything and just leave it they will automatically send it to me in such a way that the government will be able to tax it and i just want to avoid that. ! oh and do i have to fill up and return ALL the four forms?

joeysoap

Form of Election: Tick the capital payment box, if not ticked (or form returned) you will be paid the default option (grey) and may have to pay income tax, usc and possibly prsi. Form has to be back by 14th Feby

Dealing form: just tick the ' I would like to sell all my Venizon Entitlement' . Form has to be back by 4th April

I put both forms into the same envelope, (didn't seperate them either) even though the address is slightly different on both forms. I suspect most people will use the ONE return envelope they supplied.

pneireland

many thanks Joeysoap - much appreciated.