3 months/ sub 40 10k??

hurlsey

Hey lads,
quick background have done half marathons in the past done loads of 10ks, injured at the minute keepin myself ticking over with cycling and swimming.

Anyways i was at 45ish min/10k 4 weeks ago, looks like ill be back running at the end of the month

how ambitious is a sub 40 10k in 3 months?? i have never done speed work before ive always been happy to tip along!!

when i get back running ill be looking at a 6day a week plan(i think)

Mon
speedwork
Tue
6-10k
Wed
speedwork
Thurs
6-10k
Fri
speedwork
Sat
5k incl hillwork

5 days a week swimming, im not a great swimmer so it will be light shouldnt take away from my running/recovery time

anyways ive never had a running plan before so what do you think??

any input would be greatly appreciated!!

tweek84

When you say speed work what do you do for that?sorry if it seems like a amateur question but I have recently taking up doing a bit of running in the evenings after not playing sports for sometime and feel that I need to improve on my speed a bit not just for long distances but short distances also

menoscemo

So 6 runs of which 3 are 'speedwork' and 1 is a hill workout?

It sounds like you are trying to put the roof on the house but there are no foundations, i.e. the house is going to fall down.

With a longest run of 6-10k you just haven't got the mileage base to justify 4 speed sessions per week. While I don't know what you exactly mean by 'speedwork'; really fast intervals should not be more than about 10% of your total weekly mileage.

You need to do longer weekly mileage and an Long run as well. The long run should be considerably over distance, at least 10 miles but ideally more.

Limit speed sessions to 1 per week until you are doing some regular highish mileage and then you could throw in a second session, ideally some sort of tempo run.
1 interval session and 1 tempo run per week with 3/4 easy runs and a Long run would be what most would consider a standard week of training but you have to build the body up to being able to cope with that mileage.

hurlsey

the speed work for example would be

3sets of 4x400m runs about 15% faster than racepace(ive based it off a 43min/10k)

as i said ive never had a training plan for running normally id go with what i felt like doin so a random week could be
5k, 10k, 3k, 8k, 10k but it varies alot as ive no plan per say!!

like i said any input would be helpful

blockic

menoscemo wrote: »

So 6 runs of which 3 are 'speedwork' and 1 is a hill workout?

It sounds like you are trying to put the roof on the house but there are no foundations, i.e. the house is going to fall down.

With a longest run of 6-10k you just haven't got the mileage base to justify 4 speed sessions per week. While I don't know what you exactly mean by 'speedwork'; really fast intervals should not be more than about 10% of your total weekly mileage.

You need to do longer weekly mileage and an Long run as well. The long run should be considerably over distance, at least 10 miles but ideally more.

Limit speed sessions to 1 per week until you are doing some regular highish mileage and then you could throw in a second session, ideally some sort of tempo run.
1 interval session and 1 tempo run per week with 3/4 easy runs and a Long run would be what most would consider a standard week of training but you have to build the body up to being able to cope with that mileage.

Great advise from meno as always. Too much speedwork in the above and you will breakdown.

Have started a 6 week plan myself today for a 10km containing the following on a given week.

1 Tempo session (progressing the Tempo duration (not pace) as the weeks go on)
1 Interval session (400s/800s/1000m)
1 Long run (12-16miles)
2 Easy Runs(roughly anything from 6 to 10 miles)

This would be a typical enough structured plan a sixth run in the week could be a recovery run between sessions or after long run.

hurlsey

New Plan

Mon
speedwork
400s/800s/1600s 15% faster than racepace
Tue
10k
Wed
6.5k tempo run
Thurs
16k
Fri
5k incl hillwork
Sat
10k

how am i looking now??

ger664

You have a wednesday Tempo Run. Long run on thursday and Hill work Friday. When do you expect your legs/body to recover ?

hurlsey

well as i said ive never had a running plan before so any input would be greatly appreciated, what way do you think i should structure it?? or what would you drop or move around??

blockic

hurlsey wrote: »

well as i said ive never had a running plan before so any input would be greatly appreciated, what way do you think i should structure it?? or what would you drop or move around??

By hill work I suspect you mean hill sprints, this in effect is another session, If it was me, I'd drop it for a slow recovery run.

An other alternative would be to alternate between the intervals and the hill work every second week.

On the tempo run make sure you have a warm up and cool down afterwards. don't go straight into the tempo pace from the off. Try and progress it (run at tempo for longer but 40mins would be my max) as the weeks go on.

Make sure there is an easy day or two between sessions ideally.

What's your mileage(kilometre) history. A typical week lets say before the injury. The more info the better adivse you can get.

pconn062

hurlsey wrote: »

New Plan

Mon
speedwork
400s/800s/1600s 15% faster than racepace
Tue
10k
Wed
6.5k tempo run
Thurs
16k
Fri
5k incl hillwork
Sat
10k

how am i looking now??

I think the best thing to do would be to split the training plan into phases. If you have twelve weeks I would do a few weeks of tempo work, so only one session a week which would be a tempo run, gradually build the duration of this run. Start with 2x10 mins, then 20 mins, 2x15 mins etc until you are up to a 30-40 minutes of continuous tempo running. Also gradually increase your mileage through this phase, no more than 10% per week, if you could get to 50 mile a week that would be great. If you want to include some faster work in this period, add 6-10 strides to your easy runs.

After a period of 4-6 weeks of tempo work and building mileage I would start adding in more specific sessions. My coach is a great believer in mile repeats and I think he is right, miles build strength. Start with 5x1 mile off 2 mins recovery. I would then try to increase the pace slightly each week and, if you are up for it, decrease the recovery. If you want to do a second session a week then maybe do something shorter, 400m at 5k pace would be ideal. Again start with 10 and build up to 16 or so. Keep the recovery short and don't run these too fast, 5k pace is quick enough. Unless you are training for a particularly hilly 10k I wouldn't be too concerned with hills. Maybe do some of your easy runs over a hilly course which will help build strength without the need of a third session in the week. So in conclusion:

12 week plan:

4-6 weeks with one session, tempo run while building mileage, include strides.

6-8 weeks, two sessions a week, mile repeats (start at 5 and build to 6 or maybe 1x2 mile + 4x1 mile), 400m reps, if you want to mix it up a bit you could include 200m reps some weeks, or replace the rep session with an occasional hill session.

You need to have a good aerobic session built up for the sessions to have the desired effect so the first 4-6 weeks of mileage building and tempo work is very important.

hurlsey

blockic wrote: »

By hill work I suspect you mean hill sprints, this in effect is another session, If it was me, I'd drop it for a slow recovery run.

hillsprints is what i meant sorry!!

also my total mileage previous to my injury was 35-45k/week tops!!
ive never really gone further than 8miles(apart from half marathons) although im getting a feeling this was a mistake

pconn062 wrote: »

I think the best thing to do would be to split the training plan into phases. If you have twelve weeks I would do a few weeks of tempo work, so only one session a week which would be a tempo run, gradually build the duration of this run. Start with 2x10 mins, then 20 mins, 2x15 mins etc until you are up to a 30-40 minutes of continuous tempo running. Also gradually increase your mileage through this phase, no more than 10% per week, if you could get to 50 mile a week that would be great. If you want to include some faster work in this period, add 6-10 strides to your easy runs.

After a period of 4-6 weeks of tempo work and building mileage I would start adding in more specific sessions. My coach is a great believer in mile repeats and I think he is right, miles build strength. Start with 5x1 mile off 2 mins recovery. I would then try to increase the pace slightly each week and, if you are up for it, decrease the recovery. If you want to do a second session a week then maybe do something shorter, 400m at 5k pace would be ideal. Again start with 10 and build up to 16 or so. Keep the recovery short and don't run these too fast, 5k pace is quick enough. Unless you are training for a particularly hilly 10k I wouldn't be too concerned with hills. Maybe do some of your easy runs over a hilly course which will help build strength without the need of a third session in the week. So in conclusion:

12 week plan:

4-6 weeks with one session, tempo run while building mileage, include strides.

6-8 weeks, two sessions a week, mile repeats (start at 5 and build to 6 or maybe 1x2 mile + 4x1 mile), 400m reps, if you want to mix it up a bit you could include 200m reps some weeks, or replace the rep session with an occasional hill session.

You need to have a good aerobic session built up for the sessions to have the desired effect so the first 4-6 weeks of mileage building and tempo work is very important.

if im only doing 1 tempo session a week
a) im not quite sure exactly what a tempo session is
and b) what should my other 4/5 runs per week be given my current 10k pace(45min) and my goal 10k pace(38min)
and c) what are strides??

menoscemo

hurlsey wrote: »

New Plan

Mon
speedwork
400s/800s/1600s 15% faster than racepace
Tue
10k
Wed
6.5k tempo run
Thurs
16k
Fri
5k incl hillwork
Sat
10k

how am i looking now??

This is better but still too much quality for your mileage base. I wouldn't put your long run the day after your tempo run- 2 key workouts back to back. Always have an easy day between hard workouts.

hurlsey wrote: »

hillsprints is what i meant sorry!!

also my total mileage previous to my injury was 35-45k/week tops!!
ive never really gone further than 8miles(apart from half marathons) although im getting a feeling this was a mistake

if im only doing 1 tempo session a week
a) im not quite sure exactly what a tempo session is
and b) what should my other 4/5 runs per week be given my current 10k pace(45min) and my goal 10k pace(38min)
and c) what are strides??

a) a tempo session is continuous running at a pace you could sustain for an hour in race conditions. So somewhere between your current 10k and HM pace.
b) This is a useful too for caluclating your paces. Given a 45 minute 10k, your easy runs should be at around 5:30/km. You should just feel like you are able to hold a conversation throughout the run.
c) strides are short continuous bursts at about 90% of your max pace. Typically a runner will do 6-8 strides (maybe 100m or 20 seconds) at the end of an easy run. Recovery os to wlak or jog back to the start point.

raymey1970

Hi Hurlsey,

Seems like a hell of a lot of running there. Check out a book called Run Less Run Faster. It could be helpful in developing a plan, incorporating some cross training. Slightly easier on the body, decreasing the chances of injury. It's about 15 quid on Amazon. It was recommended to me by an experienced running coach.

Regards

Raymey

drquirky

raymey1970 wrote: »

Hi Hurlsey,

Seems like a hell of a lot of running there.

Honestly, To run fast, you have to run a bunch. No shortcuts.

pa4

Make sure you have a good base of mileage in the legs before you start going mad into the speedwork. When I started running first I spent a few weeks just doing mileage, building the foundation before I started adding in speedwork.

Oh and long runs, one of the most important runs of the week..can't forget that! If your training for 10k your long run should be about double the distance so approx. 12 miles.

pconn062

hurlsey wrote: »

hillsprints is what i meant sorry!!

also my total mileage previous to my injury was 35-45k/week tops!!
ive never really gone further than 8miles(apart from half marathons) although im getting a feeling this was a mistake



if im only doing 1 tempo session a week
a) im not quite sure exactly what a tempo session is
and b) what should my other 4/5 runs per week be given my current 10k pace(45min) and my goal 10k pace(38min)
and c) what are strides??

You're welcome. Menoscemo answered these questions perfectly.

hurlsey

New Plan(mk2)

Mon
speedwork
400s/800s/1600s 15% faster than racepace
Tue
10k
Wed
6.5k tempo run
Thurs
10k(easy)
Fri
16k
Sat
10k

aside from maybe making either the thursday or saturday run shorter i think this has taken on board everything you guys have said??

hurlsey

cheers for the input lads hope ive got it right, ill bang away for a few weeks and see how i get on

Ceepo

hurlsey wrote: »

New Plan(mk2)

Mon
speedwork
400s/800s/1600s 15% faster than racepace
Tue
10k
Wed
6.5k tempo run
Thurs
10k(easy)
Fri
16k
Sat
10k

aside from maybe making either the thursday or saturday run shorter i think this has taken on board everything you guys have said??

I would consider moving tempo run to Thursday as it will give you an extra day to recover.
If you do this you could move 16k to Sat.

Is Sunday a rest day?

hurlsey

Ceepo wrote: »

I would consider moving tempo run to Thursday as it will give you an extra day to recover.
If you do this you could move 16k to Sat.

Is Sunday a rest day?

Yea sunday is a rest day!!

By moving the tempo run to thursday do you mean swap it?? or taking a rest day wednesday and pushin everything a day forward?

Mon
speedwork
400s/800s/1600s 15% faster than racepace
Tue
10k
Wed
Rest
Thurs
6.5k tempo run
Fri
10k
Sat
16k
Sun
Rest

OR

Mon
speedwork
400s/800s/1600s 15% faster than racepace
Tue
10k
Wed
10k
Thurs
6.5k tempo run
Fri
10k
Sat
16k
Sun
Rest

Ceepo

hurlsey wrote: »

Yea sunday is a rest day!!

By moving the tempo run to thursday do you mean swap it?? or taking a rest day wednesday and pushin everything a day forward?

Mon
speedwork
400s/800s/1600s 15% faster than racepace
Tue
10k
Wed
Rest
Thurs
6.5k tempo run
Fri
10k
Sat
16k
Sun
Rest

OR

Mon
speedwork
400s/800s/1600s 15% faster than racepace
Tue
10k
Wed
10k
Thurs
6.5k tempo run
Fri
10k
Sat
16k
Sun
Rest

Might go with something like this.
Mon easy run 45/50 min
Tue session day (what ever the session is)
Wed 1hr easy
Thurs as Monday
Fri w/u tempo run c/d (would start with 15 min tempo then build up)
Sat long easy run
Sun rest day.

This is only a guide. As I don't know your running history.
Also your training should have progression, and adjustment been made depending on your fitness.