Ivy bridge or Haswell for new build?

Son Of A Vidic

It’s been 6 years since my last complete build, tweaked a couple of things over the years as you do. But a new build is now needed. The main function will be gaming with a little bit of Office for work and Photoshop for rec thrown in. I was waiting to see what Haswell would bring to the table. But it has been a disappointment. It runs even hotter than SB and IB CPU’s for OC, which is a pity. So Ivy Bridge i7-3770K is my most likely route now for my new rig.

Now if you guys think I should go the Haswell route, then let me know why ect. Anyway, here’s what I’m looking at, this build comes in at just over €2100 not including mouse,keyboard or optical drive. The plan was to keep the budget below €2200.


CPU: http://www.hardwareversand.de/Socket+1155/57692/Intel+Core+i7-3770K+Tray%2C+LGA1155.article

Cooling: http://www.hardwareversand.de/Intel+AMD/59387/Cooler+Master+Hyper+212+EVO++-+Intel+AMD.article

Motherboard: http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/57454/ASUS+SABERTOOTH+Z77%2C+Sockel+1155%2C+ATX%2C+DDR3.article

GPU: http://www.hardwareversand.de/3072+MB/80213/EVGA+GeForce+GTX+780,+3GB+DDR5,+PCI-Express.article

RAM: http://www.hardwareversand.de/1866+Low+Voltage/58882/16GB-Kit+Corsair+Vengeance+rot+PC3-14900U+CL10-11-10-30.article

Case: http://www.hardwareversand.de/Tower/78934/Thermaltake+Chaser+A71%2C+ohne+Netzteil.article

PSU:http://www.hardwareversand.de/800+-+900+Watts/46159/Corsair+Enthusiast+Series+TX850+V2.article

SSD:Samsung SSD 840 250GB SATA 6Gb/s

HDD:http://www.hardwareversand.de/7200+RPM/53882/Seagate+Barracuda+7200+1000GB%2C+SATA+6Gb+s.article

OS:http://www.hardwareversand.de/OEM-Software/29178/MS+Windows+7+Pro+64bit+SB-Version+Englisch.article

Monitor:http://www.hardwareversand.de/68+cm+%2827%29+/56016/Samsung+SyncMaster+S27B350H.article


I have no idea on what optical drive, keyboard or mouse to get. In a couple of years I'll double the GPU's and go for SLI to lengthen the lifespan of the build. But I reckon I'll get a few years out of this build as is.

Two things, yes the PSU is grand for now but when I go SLI with the GTX780 card. Do you guys reckon I'll have enough juice for it?

Finally, I'm just wondering would there be a clearance issue with the RAM I've selected and my cooler and would I be better going for the unfinned sticks? Yes I know, I probably won't know until I build it. But if anyone came across any issues it would give me a heads up.

So all thoughts on my build and any potential tweaks will be appreciated.

MisterMioster

I heard the i5 4670K (a Haswell) is 10% faster roval but 30% hotter than its Ivy bridge rival the i5 3570K at stock speeds.

I'm choosing the 3570K because it'll be cooler when overclocked and allow more overclocking because of that but if you won't overclock I'd say go for the Haswell.
If you have a budget of over €2000 as you do, you can get something much better than the i5s.

Gumbi

Honestly, a well overclocked 3570k should do. 4.6ghz minimum on water or high end air.

A couple of points about your build. I'd get a Korean 1440p monitor for ~300 quid. Definitely get a different cooler. Hyper 212 is for budgets less than half of yours. I don't know if you're up for investing in water, if not, the Dark Rock Pro 2 is one of the highest performing air coolers with an extremely quiet fan. Your power supply is overkill too. 650 max is what I'd go for. Others can help a bit more.

BloodBath

Something like this would have about the same performance for a fair bit less while upgrading some other parts. 16gb of ram is overkill for gaming. Nothing at the moment comes close to using 8gb.

There's nothing making use of hyperthreading on those i7's. You will get 0 performance gains with it over a 4670k in games. This may change in the future. The Dark Rock pro 2 should be able to deal with any extra heat from the Haswell. I'd expect at least 4.5 - 4.7ghz.

2 x 660gtx will give about the same performance as a 780 for a lot less. There will be some latency spiking in some games but overall it's pretty solid.

The super flower 700w is more efficient and cheaper than that corsair and has enough power for 2 high end cards + processor overclocked.

Picked out a really good mechanical keyboard and mouse for their price as well.


Item|Price
Intel Core i5-4670K Tray,3,4 GHZ, 6MB Cache, LGA 1150, VGA|€211.64
be quiet!Dark Rock Pro 2|€72.52
MSI Z87-G45 Gaming, ATX, Sockel 1150|€146.90
Samsung SSD 840 250GB SATA 6Gb/s|€141.99
WD Red RD1000S 2TB SATA 6Gb/s 64MB|€96.61
2 x Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 Windforce 2X, 2GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort|€329.98
Thermaltake Chaser A71, ohne Netzteil|€138.31
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 700W|€80.61
MS Windows 8 64bit (SB-Version) Englisch|€85.11
LiteOn iHAS124-04 schwarz SATA|€16.49
LG 24EA53VQ|€159.00
Akasa SATA 3 Kabel 50cm - black|€3.99
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
8GB-Kit G-Skill RipJaws PC3-12800U CL9|€59.50
Perixx MX-2000 Mouse|€29.00
CM Storm Quickfire TK Mechanical keyboard|€60.00
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1657.63

Gumbi

And of course I meant 4670k instead of IB

Son Of A Vidic

Gumbi wrote: »

Definitely get a different cooler. Hyper 212 is for budgets less than half of yours.

You are right, I was actually thinking about the Noctua NH-D14 in my OP. It seems to be one of the best air coolers and runs pretty quiet.

http://www.hardwareversand.de/Intel+AMD/31818/Noctua+NH-D14%2C+Sockel+AM2+AM2%2B+AM3+775+1366+1155+1156.article

Son Of A Vidic

BloodBath wrote: »

Something like this would have about the same performance for a fair bit less while upgrading some other parts. 16gb of ram is overkill for gaming. Nothing at the moment comes close to using 8gb.

I was really looking at the extra RAM for future really, rather than the present.

BloodBath wrote: »

There's nothing making use of hyperthreading on those i7's. You will get 0 performance gains with it over a 4670k in games. This may change in the future.

Again the future possibility of hyperthreading being exploited was the reason I was looking at the i7-3770K over the i5-3570K. Am I right in thinking BF3 has utilised hyperthreading? Or am I way off there?

BloodBath wrote: »

The Dark Rock pro 2 should be able to deal with any extra heat from the Haswell. I'd expect at least 4.5 - 4.7ghz.

If a stable 4.5 - 4.7ghz could be acheived with acceptable temps with that cooler on the Haswell. Then yes, I would seriously look at Haswell. But from what I seen so far, temps seem to start going north pretty quickly once Haswell hits 4.2ghz.

BloodBath wrote: »

2 x 660gtx will give about the same performance as a 780 for a lot less. There will be some latency spiking in some games but overall it's pretty solid.

What drew me to the 780gtx was it nearly matches the top of the range Titan in a lot of benchmarks. In single GPU terms, it's probably next in line after the Titan & the Radeon 7990.

But christ, I didn't realise you could pick up a pair of 660gtx's for €300 less than the 780gtx I was looking at. I am seriously considering your suggestion now.

BloodBath wrote: »

The super flower 700w is more efficient and cheaper than that corsair and has enough power for 2 high end cards + processor overclocked.

Duly noted, thanks.

BloodBath wrote: »

Picked out a really good mechanical keyboard and mouse for their price as well.


Item|Price
Intel Core i5-4670K Tray,3,4 GHZ, 6MB Cache, LGA 1150, VGA|€211.64
be quiet!Dark Rock Pro 2|€72.52
MSI Z87-G45 Gaming, ATX, Sockel 1150|€146.90
Samsung SSD 840 250GB SATA 6Gb/s|€141.99
WD Red RD1000S 2TB SATA 6Gb/s 64MB|€96.61
2 x Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 Windforce 2X, 2GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort|€329.98
Thermaltake Chaser A71, ohne Netzteil|€138.31
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 700W|€80.61
MS Windows 8 64bit (SB-Version) Englisch|€85.11
LiteOn iHAS124-04 schwarz SATA|€16.49
LG 24EA53VQ|€159.00
Akasa SATA 3 Kabel 50cm - black|€3.99
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
8GB-Kit G-Skill RipJaws PC3-12800U CL9|€59.50
Perixx MX-2000 Mouse|€29.00
CM Storm Quickfire TK Mechanical keyboard|€60.00
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1657.63

If I can overcome the temp issue on the OC'd HAswell, then that looks like a very good build suggestion.

I'll probably still go with an ASUS Motherboard, because I love my ASUS motherboards. Never had an issue with one in the past. That said, I don't think I've ever tried the MSI brand before, so I've no real issue with that brand.

beno619

Form what I've read the last few days haswell temp issues are o ly present when stress testing, temps seem to be reasonable under normal gaming load.

Son Of A Vidic

beno619 wrote: »

Form what I've read the last few days haswell temp issues are o ly present when stress testing, temps seem to be reasonable under normal gaming load.

The problem with Haswell seems to be pre production claims and post production reality. Pre production Intel claimed that Haswell could be easily over clocked from 3.5ghz to 4.8ghz. But the reality is anything but. 4.2ghz seems to be all that post production chips are reaching. Anything past that is causing serious spikes in voltage and heat and stability.

That disappointemnt aside, it does make sense for me to go for Haswell I suppose. Because choosing Ivy Bridge at this stage, will probably just give me a very limited upgrade path.

Gumbi

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

The problem with Haswell seems to be pre production claims and post production reality. Pre production Intel claimed that Haswell could be easily over clocked from 3.5ghz to 4.8ghz. But the reality is anything but. 4.2ghz seems to be all that post production chips are reaching. Anything past that is causing serious spikes in voltage and heat and stability.

That disappointemnt aside, it does make sense for me to go for Haswell I suppose. Because choosing Ivy Bridge at this stage, will probably just give me a very limited upgrade path.

And an OCed Haswell is as fast as an OCed IB anyways, so it's not like you're necessarily losing out on performance when choosing Haswell.

Son Of A Vidic

Has anyone here in the forum actually got their hands on a Haswell CPU yet? Because it would be interesting to get their views on it.

NTMK

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Has anyone here in the forum actually got their hands on a Haswell CPU yet? Because it would be interesting to get their views on it.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056965535

heres some views on it by a boardsie. tbh im building a new rig and going ivy i have no intention of upgrading between now and Skylake so the lack of an upgrade path doesnt bother me. 1150 will be redundant in 2-3 years anyway and z87 doesnt have many big advantages of z77 imo

game4it70

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Has anyone here in the forum actually got their hands on a Haswell CPU yet? Because it would be interesting to get their views on it.

Yes i have.
Have a read of the link NTMK posted to my thread.

Feel free to ask me anything if it helps you decide what to go for.

Son Of A Vidic

Thanks again lads for your views.

game4it70 wrote: »

Yes i have.
Have a read of the link NTMK posted to my thread.

Feel free to ask me anything if it helps you decide what to go for.

Ya, had a read of your thead that NTMK linked. After going through it, I think I'm swinging back to my gut instinct and going with Ivy bridge. The only downside is, having just done side by side mock builds of Haswell and IB, there's virtually no difference in price.

game4it70

I'd say since your building from scratch go for haswell just as its new tech,it really depends on how high you would want to overclock.
I had a good ivy board with a 2500k (that was given to the family pc) and in hindsight i should have just gotten an ivy instead,i just wanted new toys to clock with

Haswell are very inconsistent with overclocks and the temps can vary a lot with same overclock/volts/cooling.
Clock for clock haswell preforms slightly better than ivy so 4.4ghz haswell would equate to 4.6ghz ivy approx.

One thing i will say about that MSI Z87-G45 mobo is its the cheaper version of what i have and I'm not impressed with mine.
The bios/uefi isn't great and has bugs even at stock.Its also doesn't seem the have as many settings as other z87 boards.

Anyways hope that helps more than hinders with your decision :P

Son Of A Vidic

I don't want to try and set any records with overclocking, I just want the peace of mind that I won't fry my rig. I don't think I can get pass the Haswell temp issues. So I think I will go with 1155 and IB for now and then maybe look at what Skylake will bring.

I should get a couple of years out of a good quality build regardless of the limited upgrade path. IB also gives me the peace of mind of getting some well established quality components.

MisterMioster

The Ivy's are better for temperature by being 30% cooler, the Haswells are better for speed by about 10%. Anyway, the 10% difference isn't huge because the Ivy will still be very powerful and if you get an overclockable one (which is recommended) you can overclock it in th future when you feel safer about it and then your CPU will still be up to date in terms of performance.

I got the i5 3570K (an Ivy) instead of the i5 4670K (a haswell) and I'm going to overclock it and it'll then perform the same as an overclocked i5 4670K except it'll be cooler therefor I might even overclock it further than the haswell can go

Gumbi

Whatever's cheaper is my advice. Motherboards are a lot cheaper on IB, 30 euro roughly speaking. So gor for that

Son Of A Vidic

MisterMioster wrote: »

I got the i5 3570K (an Ivy) instead of the i5 4670K (a haswell) and I'm going to overclock it and it'll then perform the same as an overclocked i5 4670K except it'll be cooler therefor I might even overclock it further than the haswell can go

Ya, I'm thinking the same. It's going to be either the i5 3570K or the i7 3770K for me.The only real diffeence between the two performance wise, is the i7 offers hyperthreading which is not a necessity for gaming right now. I also thinks the i7 runs slightly cooler.

Gumbi

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Ya, I'm thinking the same. It's going to be either the i5 3570K or the i7 3770K for me.The only real diffeence between the two performance wise, is the i7 offers hyperthreading which is a necessity for gaming right now. I also thinks the i7 runs slightly cooler.

Hyper-threading is utterly unnecessary for games. That's the second time I've seen you say that. It makes a difference in Crysis 3 (and minimal too, by the way, like less than 5 frames) but that's abou it AFAIK. Whether that's going to change remains to be seen in the next generation of consoles.

Also, if anything, the 3770k runs hotter web hyper-threading is enabled, spart from that, they are the same.

MisterMioster

The i7 3770K is better than the i5 3570K but the difference between gaming is nothing. If you plan to only game and browse the Internet etc, get the i5 3570K. But if you're going to do serious video editing and stuff like that aswell then get the i7 3770K. For the extra price, the i7 isn't worth it if you're going to just game. I'd put the extra cash into a better cooler or GPU or SSD or monitor or keyboard or mouse instead of getting the i7. Anyway, the i5 3570K is still a very powerful CPU.

BloodBath

Or just get a xeon. The price of a 3570k with the performance of a 3770.

Son Of A Vidic

Gumbi wrote: »

Hyper-threading is utterly unnecessary for games. That's the second time I've seen you say that. It makes a difference in Crysis 3..

I checked back on my earlier post and saw that I forgot to type 'not'. So to avoid further confusion I edited it accordingly.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Ya, I'm thinking the same. It's going to be either the i5 3570K or the i7 3770K for me.The only real diffeence between the two performance wise, is the i7 offers hyperthreading which is not a necessity for gaming right now. I also thinks the i7 runs slightly cooler.

I am aware of HT not being required at all for a gaming only rig. But I did query whether it would used more in the future with these earlier commnets..

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Again the future possibility of hyperthreading being exploited was the reason I was looking at the i7-3770K over the i5-3570K.

And that's it. So ya, I am totally aware of HT not being utilised or required in most if not all games. But looking forward, HT might be an issue in future game development down the road. And based on that possibility, that's the only reason I'm leaning right now to the i7 3770K over the i5 3570K.

Gumbi

Haha. That explains it . It might make a difference but not worth the difference in price. 3570k at 4.4/4.6 ghz is more than enough power for gaming for the next few years.