Professional courtesy

angeleyes

Could I ask for views on the above title.

I was asked to photograph a 3 day event which went well. I was actually surprised to be asked as there is another photographer in the area who "gets the gigs" as it were. However, this "other" photographer turned up to two of the events (uninvited) and on the first evening was shooting over my shoulder. On the last event a family fun day he turned up again kinda strange as we have run this event for a couple of years now and he never showed.

Yes I know its a free country and a photographer can turn up to an event and shoot etc., however, if the roles were reversed I wouldn't do it. I have covered other events and once had my head bitten off by a press photographer when I clicked behind him - yes I know it was naughty and he was entitled to give out.

I know at bigger events press photographers are there to do a job. So is there such a thing as professional courtesy or is it just dog eat dog out there?

Tallon

Have you tried speaking with the person?

melekalikimaka

dog eat dog.

angeleyes

Tallon wrote: »

Have you tried speaking with the person?

not really he's well, kinda rude. So no point. Yeah I suppose melekalikimaka it is a bit dog eat dog even if the other dog feels you are getting into his territory.

Tallon

angeleyes wrote: »

not really he's well, kinda rude. So no point. Yeah I suppose melekalikimaka it is a bit dog eat dog even if the other dog feels you are getting into his territory.

How do you know if you've never spoken to him?

AnCatDubh

lots of documentaries on the discovery channel about this kinda stuff - the ones where the hyena like photographer gets into a fisty cuffs with the lion like photographers over the meal like photoshoot. They all follow a similar script and the lion will always win - they have the louder roar and greater physical prowess.

There are some great people in photography, and some total eejits too (have some other choice descriptions, but i'd have to tag the post with NSFW ).

Anyhow, you sound like you are a pretty decent individual. Unfortunately the world isn't full of such individuals. In which case, you need to figure how you are comfortable in dealing with it. You know, to be ready for your very own discovery channel documentary because if this is a route that you are going down it is sure to play out many times over.

(elbows work well if things get too close if you know what I mean. Yeah, unpleasant but sometimes necessary)

angeleyes

Tallon wrote: »

How do you know if you've never spoken to him?

Oh I have Tallon I know him for years but the last few occasions we've spoken he has been a bit on the rude side. A few years ago I was one of the Special Olympic photographers and went to photograph the pitch & putt as it was held in our area, he was at that too, and told me to shut up when I asked one of the athletes to do a pose. As I was wearing the SO uniform I couldn't let them or myself down. I suppose this guy sees me as a threat.

Love your reply AnCatDubh great post I must sharpen up my elbows.

mdebets

You need to be a little bit clearer about the circumstances (public, private event, for whom were you and he shooting), but I can't see in general anything wrong with another photographer shooting the same event as you.
For the over the shoulder shooting, it can get a little bit annoying, but dependent on the event again, could be explained, if it was for example an important picture for the event (e.g. the winner of the race crossing the finishing line).

Paulw

I guess I am a lot more used to shooting events with multiple photographers. Nothing new with someone shooting over my shoulder or me shooting over someone else's shoulder.

But, I find that you get used to the other photographers and get to know them. You build up a working relationship.

I've been to events where photographers have had disagreements. Never nice.

Of course, if you wanted to disrupt someone shooting over your shoulder, once you take your pict, just take a step back, which may nudge them.

Then again, it would depend on the event (public/private), who you are shooting for, and who the other photographer is shooting for.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Shooting over your shoulder is better than shooting in front of your lens!

Borderfox

Thats life at the moment, events on and a load of photographers turn up to shoot. As above sharpen elbows and issue threats, monopods come in handy also if photographers are hemmed in by string give the string a good pull gets the manners back in hand.

angeleyes

Borderfox wrote: »

Thats life at the moment, events on and a load of photographers turn up to shoot. As above sharpen elbows and issue threats, monopods come in handy also if photographers are hemmed in by string give the string a good pull gets the manners back in hand.

Ah yeah I must dig out my monopod might sharpen that too. :D

What annoys me or annoyed me is that for every other local event he gets monopoly to photograph and make money and I would never muscle in. The first event I've been asked to photograph he muscles in on mine. One of the events was a cycle race for the Cliona Foundation which was a great success and my fee is going back to the Cliona Foundation.

Borderfox

I have met them all and without exception all are insecure and get scared when other photographers turn up or take "their" business. If people are nice thats a bonus but if they want to play nasty then they get it back 100% loud and clear

Corkbah

take it as a compliment .... he obviously thinks so such a great photographer that he must try to get an image as close to yours - by standing over your shoulder.

angeleyes

Corkbah wrote: »

take it as a compliment .... he obviously thinks so such a great photographer that he must try to get an image as close to yours - by standing over your shoulder.

aww thank you Corkbah never thought of it like that

lisatiffany

Professional courtesy ? hmm I was talking about this just today with a friend and honestly sometimes I think there is none left in the world. I'm a professional music photographer so the events I shoot are pit-based meaning you have to have a certain degree of teamwork from everyone in there to get passed etc. I wish I could say people move out of your way and make room but there is always one idiot who stands there like a statue and refuses to move until he sees security eyeballing him then he moves. I always move if someone needs to get by and truth be told I don't take up a lot of room so they can easily get passed anyway. Tonight I have one of my biggest shows of the year, Slayer , and I've deliberately left it until the second night so I won't have to rely on people to move because apart for security it will be just myself. That's my experience with the lack of professional courtesy but it does happen where there are plenty of events I'm hired to do by whichever organizers and sure enough someone either tries to stand in front or puts a lens just over my shoulder ..it wouldn't bother me too much if it wasn't a case that I was there to work and had limited time to get the shots. At the end of the day I believe in karma.

Leftyflip

I've always been a fan of "Nope, didn't get that one quite right, I might move over just a small bit", they usually get the message... Or I just take a step back...

lisatiffany

@ Lefty

It was just myself in the pit for Slayer tonight, apart from security of course and really strange not having to get passed other shooters especially with such a well known band. Easily the hardest shoot in a long time, the lights were brutal and I got a headbutt from a fan, it's all good though the guys sorted me out with autographs and the like too, my favorite band

thebaz

angeleyes wrote: »

So is there such a thing as professional courtesy or is it just dog eat dog out there?

Ther used to be courtesy , and should be coutesy - I used to do a lot of music photography myself , but only do the odd thing now - but last year took the biscuit - ther was at least 2 photographers at Electric Picnic standing in prime pit spots holding ther camera over ther head, not caring for anyone else - up until last year I quite enjoyed it , but this and the complete lack of value for a shot turned me completly off (want to break even !). do only the odd one now. Some people you have to speak direct to , to understand basic manners.

Leftyflip

lisatiffany wrote: »

@ Lefty

It was just myself in the pit for Slayer tonight, apart from security of course and really strange not having to get passed other shooters especially with such a well known band. Easily the hardest shoot in a long time, the lights were brutal and I got a headbutt from a fan, it's all good though the guys sorted me out with autographs and the like too, my favorite band

I'm jealous - so very jealous now!
Hope the headbutt didn't hurt too much! Though, it wouldn't be a Slayer concert without all that kind of stuff! I look forward to seeing some pictures!