Moving from UK to Ireland: JSA

charliep

Hi, my wife has got a great job in Ireland that she couldn't turn down and we will be moving from the UK to Ireland in a couple of weeks. I gave up my job of 6 years to travel in Asia for 3 months with my wife as this was part of her job. We got back a few weeks ago and I have been awarded contribution based JSA in the UK of £70. Apparently I will be able to transfer my JSA with me to Ireland for a period of up to 3 months at that rate paid into my UK bank account. However, I have just learnt, though I'm a bit unsure, that in Ireland I would be entitled to a hard to believe 188 euro a week if I claim contribution JSA there but I have to get one stamp in order to be in the Irish welfare system. Also I would be able to claim for up to 9 months. Does anyone know if this would indeed be the case?

Cheers

eastbono

charliep wrote: »

Hi, my wife has got a great job in Ireland that she couldn't turn down and we will be moving from the UK to Ireland in a couple of weeks. I gave up my job of 6 years to travel in Asia for 3 months with my wife as this was part of her job. We got back a few weeks ago and I have been awarded contribution based JSA in the UK of £70. Apparently I will be able to transfer my JSA with me to Ireland for a period of up to 3 months at that rate paid into my UK bank account. However, I have just learnt, though I'm a bit unsure, that in Ireland I would be entitled to a hard to believe 188 euro a week if I claim contribution JSA there but I have to get one stamp in order to be in the Irish welfare system. Also I would be able to claim for up to 9 months. Does anyone know if this would indeed be the case?

Cheers[/QUOT

Yes this is the case of course this would depend on the type of contributions you had in the UK in 2011. Of course you have to be available and looking for full time work.

charliep

Thanks for the reply. Yep I will be available and actively seeking work, in fact I've already started but I hear things are really bad in Ireland. If I was to transfer my JSA from the UK this would only last for 3 months. Would it be the case that once the 3 months have expired would I then be able to then claim contribution based JSA in Ireland after the 3 months? For the record I have full contributions at the top rate.

Annasopra

charliep wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Yep I will be available and actively seeking work, in fact I've already started but I hear things are really bad in Ireland. If I was to transfer my JSA from the UK this would only last for 3 months. Would it be the case that once the 3 months have expired would I then be able to then claim contribution based JSA in Ireland after the 3 months? For the record I have full contributions at the top rate.

I'm not 100% sure how a case like this works but you would be means tested on your wifes salary so if your wifes salary is quite high the 188 would reduce as this is the top rate based on little or no other income

Cainam

If it is means tested I probably won't get much and I probably wouldn't be eligible for means tested jsa anyway as its unlikely I would pass the habitual resident test. However, it is contribution based jsa that I would apply for and I believe that it is not means tested and I do not have to prove that I am habitually resident.

eastbono

charliep wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Yep I will be available and actively seeking work, in fact I've already started but I hear things are really bad in Ireland. If I was to transfer my JSA from the UK this would only last for 3 months. Would it be the case that once the 3 months have expired would I then be able to then claim contribution based JSA in Ireland after the 3 months? For the record I have full contributions at the top rate.

You will not be able to claim contribution based jsa which is jsb in Ireland until you have paid one A class contribution in Ireland.... this brings your UK cons into play.

eastbono

Cainam wrote: »

If it is means tested I probably won't get much and I probably wouldn't be eligible for means tested jsa anyway as its unlikely I would pass the habitual resident test. However, it is contribution based jsa that I would apply for and I believe that it is not means tested and I do not have to prove that I am habitually resident.

You are correct in saying that you would more than likely not satisfy HRC conditions. JSB is not means tested and you do not have to be HRC compliant in order to receive JSB.

Fogmatic

We Brits moved from London to (rural) Ireland about 20 years ago. I'd say the most important thing when negotiating Irish officialdom is not to trust assumptions, or take anything for granted that's not in black & white/expressly stated on the official websites.
It took us a while to fathom out the ways of the powers-that be, as they didn't send out as much info and advice as the UK ones. (They still don't, but once the internet got going it filled most of the gaps).

Before deciding which way to go financially, I'd check how any income/savings (combined, for couples) will affect the amount of any benefit you might want to apply for here (including medical cards, for the Irish equivalant of NHS services). In case you haven't found it, there's info about the thresholds and other nuts & bolts of benefits means-testing at www.welfare.ie, and for medical cards at www.hse.ie.
If applying for a medical card, it's as well to allow plenty of time for it to get through the system, and to first ask them for clarification of anything their website and/or form doesn't make crystal clear. If you start off by ascertaining & supplying all the info & documents they require, that's one less delay.
When the only income is state benefit(s), (meaning also savings/investments/other assets below a certain threshold), a medical card is granted automatically (meaning by right - not that it just arrives in the post without your doing anything!).

www.citizensinformation.ie is a good overall starting point re Irish systems, and includes up-to-date info, advice & links re the various state services (and is a good deal clearer and easier to navigate than some individual websites I could name).

Just one example of our 'Now they tell us!' moments; while doing the paperwork for keeping our van when moving over, I asked the vehicle-importing authority if UK road tax was valid here, and they said it was. It needed renewing just before we moved, and a relative generously paid for it. What the office didn't tell me was that we still had to pay Irish road tax from the date we moved here.

A recent one may be relevant here; the UK contributory state pension people wrote to my husband about possibly qualifying for some. The form instructed him to apply through the country we were living in. We rang the Irish one, and were told we had to apply to the UK one We established eventually that it was the Irish one we had to do it through after all, then did the forms (e.g. we had to trawl up details of all the work we'd ever done in a very complicated employment life, though the UK people probably only needed the National Insurance number they quoted on their letter).
By the time that saga was completed, and a small UK pension was awarded, we were receiving Irish non-contributory state pension. The 2 things were done from the same office, but nobody told us that our Irish pensions would be reduced by the amount of the UK contrib. pension (from correspondence among other things, it just looked as if the Irish pension people knew about it). We only found out when we coincidentally had to apply for renewal of our medical cards. I'd asked the HSE for clarification of some documents required with the form, but hadn't heard back, so tried ringing the Irish pensions building. They were able to give some pointers informally, and also warned that we should make sure the Irish pension people knew about the UK one. So I rang them the other day, and they didn't, as we have to write & tell them. (Hopefully there'll be an option to have the overpayment deducted from our pensions in small instalments).

The Irish authorities don't seem as joined-up as the UK ones. Data protection (which might be more rigorous in the Eurozone) often prevents them exchanging information (this litigious society probably doesn't help).

My theory about the authorities here not sending out as much info & advice, is that the Irish culture makes it less neccessary for most people. The on-the-ground grapevine is very efficient here (in the country, at least). Everyone seems to know all the other locals, and who to go to with which questions. When we voice some query (e.g. in the bar or newsagent), the answer usually comes back eventually (however roundabout the route). It's one of the things we like about Ireland, but perhaps it means formal public information isn't needed to the same extent as in places like the UK where social isolation is more common.

One more thing in case you're not aware of it; credit cards and credit history don't cross borders, so as far as credit goes it might be back to square one. We didn't find out till we were in the process of moving here, and I rang my Access card people (well, it was 20 years ago!), about our change of address. I had to pay off and close the account, our UK credit history wasn't recognised here, and we had to start from scratch (a bit of a bootlace job!). It's the same between the republic of Ireland and the Province, e.g. it gets in the way of moving house across the border if it needs a mortgage. I think some people are still in the dark about it (judging from people on TV moving to Australia etc, and being surprised that they can't have a mobile phone straight away, for instance).

I hope all this doesn't put you off Ireland though! (The people in general are very friendly, welcoming, and far from being jobsworths!).
Which reminds me; an aspect of that friendliness is that people usually address each other by their first names (even our bank and tax office do it, for instance). When people use yours, they're never being patronising, as they can sometimes be in the UK. Mr/Mrs so-and-so is only used at the most formal times, and sometimes in a first letter/call (being called 'Mrs' now feels strange to me, and rather distant!).

Fogmatic

Wow - sorry, I didn't notice how lengthy that was getting! (I blame the writing bug).

Annasopra

eastbono wrote: »

You are correct in saying that you would more than likely not satisfy HRC conditions. JSB is not means tested and you do not have to be HRC compliant in order to receive JSB.

Why wouldnt the OP satisfy the HRC condition? The UK is part of the Common Travel Area!

Annasopra

Cainam wrote: »

If it is means tested I probably won't get much and I probably wouldn't be eligible for means tested jsa anyway as its unlikely I would pass the habitual resident test. However, it is contribution based jsa that I would apply for and I believe that it is not means tested and I do not have to prove that I am habitually resident.

OP - if you are an EU citizen I cannot see why you would not pass the HRC condition

mattjack

mango salsa wrote: »

OP - if you are an EU citizen I cannot see why you would not pass the HRC condition

The HRC is very difficult to satisfy , in some situations Irish nationals won't pass it.You have to prove Ireland is your centre of interest .

eastbono

mango salsa wrote: »

Why wouldnt the OP satisfy the HRC condition? The UK is part of the Common Travel Area!

The common travel area is not taken into account for hrc conditions and just because you are an EU citizen does not make you habitually resident. You have the right to reside but you may not be habitually resident.

Link to info on welfare.ie http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Habitual-Residence-Condition_holder.aspx

charliep

Thanks for the replies everyone . Yep I have done a bit of research and I think it would be a load of hassle trying to satisfy HRC, not to mention that it is very unlikely that I would succeed: I'm not going to bother. My quandary is that I can transfer my contribution based JSA from the UK for up to 3 months and I can do that with no interruption in my payments. However, since I would be entitled to more than double if I claim through the Irish welfare system but to do that I have to get at least one stamp to be in the welfare system there. Ideally I would take my UK JSA with me to Ireland and then get some sort of employment to get my stamp and then make a claim in Ireland but I'm not sure how this would work or if I can do this?
Obviously, if I can get a good long term job this all becomes irrelevant but judging by the lack of response to my applications so far it could be an uphill struggle. Luckily my wife has a good job so it takes the pressure off a bit but the cost of living in Dublin is crazy even compared to Edinburgh where I'm from so any extra income would help.