Freesat Options?

funkey_monkey

Hi,

I've got a second room in my parents house which I need to upgrade the TV set in.

Currently I've got Freesat from Sky installed, which is rubbish as the channels are all over the place and it is not a HD setup.

I'm considering whether as part of getting the TV upgraded to do something about this setup too.

My ideal would be to get a system whereby I could get RTE installed into this room too (I am in Co. Antrim).

I think that to get it all via freesat I would need to put an offset arm on the current sky dish and install a Saorsat system and change the Freesat from Sky to a normal Freesat receiver box.

We have a standard aerial connection into the room, but I'm not sure if we can receive RTE via a terrestial signal.

I've got 2 coxial feeds into the room (only one live) and an aerial input too. I'm upgrading the TV to probably something like:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Toshiba-32BV801B-32-inch-1080p-Freeview/dp/B005FKQSZ6/ref=sr_1_2?s=home-theater&ie=UTF8&qid=1370624021&sr=1-2&keywords=led+tv

What is my best option for upgrading my input to the new television? I have a preference for either all analogue or all satellite solution as I don't want a number of boxes and remotes lying around the room! RTE is not essential, but it would be massively appreciated if I could manage to get it installed with little pain or additional boxes.

I should also say that we have Sky in our main room, although Sky Multiroom is too expensive for our second room (£10.25pcm).


Thanks.

Peter Rhea

You'll have to make the decision about satellite v. terrestrial yourself, based on what terrestrial signals are actually receivable (Freeview, Saorview, NImux) at the location in question, what kind of aerial etc. is already in place & how big a dish you're willing to install.

A Sky dish won't be any use for Saorsat: in Antrim you could need a 1 metre dish for reliable reception in all weather conditions & the UK channels would be received via a 2nd lnb.

funkey_monkey

Our local transmitter will be tx'ing Freeview on C40, C43 &C46 (all V). Although from looking here, the Glens are getting nothing so I guess it is Saorsat or nowt http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/files/2012/07/NIMuxFactsheet4.pdf

The main option that I see is to get Saorsat set up for all other rooms with Sky only going into the main room. This means a dual feed into a STB which can handle Saorsat and Freesat. Not sure if there is a box which can handle this or whether it needs to be done via a Diseqc switch. Could this still use an old Sky STB or will something fresher be required?

Was looking at this, but wasn't use what the diseqc indicator was doing as it only takes in a single LNB feed - I'm guessing that the remote has a button that is able to control this diseqc switch as per the spec:
DiSEqC 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 & 1.3 (USALS) compatible

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNOMATE-TM-5402-HD-SUPER-CI-M2-LAN-HIGH-DEFINITION-SATELLITE-USB-PVR-1080P-/230931586564#vi-content

The only alternative would be to upgrade the Sky package to Multiroom (correct?) in order to get the package in the second room. Not willing to pay them gits £10.25pcm for the priviledge (increasing by 10% in September).

Looks like second room will have no RTE!

Peter Rhea

DiSEqC automatically switches to the relevant satellite feed for whatever channel is selected.

Free-to-air boxes like the Technomate should allow a single channel list for all satellite services, while Freesat boxes would need switching to non-Freesat mode for Saorsat viewing*. The TM5402 can access 7-day EPG info for the UK channels, though I think it needs a bit of user input, unlike the Freesat boxes which do it all automatically.

Where Saorsat is concerned, best course of action would be to see if there are any (relatively) local installers offering it, preferably pick one who has had a few installations up & running reliably for a while.

*An exception is the now-discontinued Humax Foxsat running 3rd-party software to allow integration of non-Freesat channels into the epg but, without programme info for channels so included iirc.

funkey_monkey

As I stated in my initial email, I've got a terrestial antenna connection into this room and shotgun cabling as well for a satelite connection (currently freesat from Sky).

As I don't require recording facility in this room, then I think this box should be sufficient.

Questions:
1. Could I use a Ferguson 250 box for this?
2. In this room I have a coaxial cable from under the table up to the TV stand via white conduit. I'll want to connect the system using a HDMI cable. The head of a HDMI cable should fit up standard electrical conduit or are there any options here?
3. Can I change the smaller Sky Dish and replace it all with a 1m plus dish and have all LNB's connected here?
4. One bedroom currently has freesat from Sky. Does this come in on the same satellite/alignment as normal Freesat? I ask because I was thinking of switching out the 'Freesat from Sky' setup for a normal Freesat STB.

Peter Rhea

The Ferguson Ariva 250 will work with Saorsat & FTA, but the Freeview terrestrial side will only be standard def. If you want Freeview HD, get the newer 252.

Freesat, Freesat from Sky, plain UK FTA, all get their signal from the same satellites so the same dish setup will work for all.

Saorsat is another matter, take look at the FAQs: http://www.2rn.ie/wp-content/uploads...12-Rev-2.1.pdf. Section 7.3 'How Big Does My Dish Have To Be?', actually leaves NI blank, but if you follow the line from Donegal, it puts Antrim in the 100cm region.

funkey_monkey

Hi, link doesn't work. Edit: Seen it now. Yes, the last time I got the installer to do this it was a 1m dish. We'll need one here too.

However, will I be able to record on the 252? I've now been asked about recording!!! The spec says:

With the USB input, the decoder gives you the ability to play and record the content of watching channels on an external drive

Is this simple to do on these boxes and would it have any limitations? Such as:

1. If you are watching BBC (C40) and want to record UTV (C43) you cannot as it is not able to take in both channels.
2. Able to record the Saorsat whilst viewing Freeview and vice versa?

I was told that recording was not easy on these boxes, is that correct?


Once again, many thanks for your support on here. It is much appreciated.

Peter Rhea

No problem watching a terrestrial channel while recording satellite & vice-versa.

The manual for these boxes mentions being able to record a satellite channel & simultaneously watch another on the same transponder. Not sure if the same applies to terrestrial multiplexes: certainly watching/recording programmes on different multiplexes (as in your ch.40/43 example) would be out.

excollier

It should apply to a terrestrial mux too.

funkey_monkey

Peter Rhea wrote: »

certainly watching/recording programmes on different multiplexes (as in your ch.40/43 example) would be out.

AFAIK all the Saorsat channels come in on the same channel so it should be okay.

Is there any box out there that allows different terrestial channels to be viewed and recorded simultaneously and if there are, I presume you need a degree in Electronic Engineering to operate them.

Just so I fully understand, the reason to get the 252 over the 250 so so that HD Freeview (Terrestial channels) can be viewed. The 250 only supports SD Freeview, correct?

zg3409

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Is there any box out there that allows different terrestial channels to be viewed and recorded simultaneously and if there are, I presume you need a degree in Electronic Engineering to operate them.

Most freeview UK PVRs allow recording of two terrestrial channels. Some combo boxes will allow recording of multiple terrestial channels if they are on the same multiplex. For them to record from two different multiplexes they need two terrestrial tuners.

Peter Rhea

funkey_monkey wrote: »

the reason to get the 252 over the 250 so so that HD Freeview (Terrestial channels) can be viewed. The 250 only supports SD Freeview, correct?

Yeah, the 252 works with DVB-T2, the 250 is DVB-T only. There may be other advantages to the newer model, that's just the one that stood out on the briefest of glances at the specs.

Freeview HD is currently just a simulcast of BBC 1, BBC 2, UTV & Ch.4 (along with some 'red button' content from time to time, usually sport), & since the location in question seems to be receiving from a relay transmitter, that's all the HD you're likely to get there for the foreseeable future.

Also, as you noted in your OP, this transmitter only carries the 3-mux. 'Freeview Lite' service, so if you rely on Freeview for UK tv, you will be down on channel count when compared to Freesat from Sky, or any form of free satellite.

funkey_monkey

Problem with Freesat from Sky is that it scatters the viewable channesl all through the EPG and there is no neat way of re-arranging them, other than adding as favourites (that I'm aware of) - so I'm plannign on getting rid of the Sky STB which is in there at the minute.

As I've got shotgun cabling (2 feeds) in the room currently, which option do you think is the best -
1. Total satellite solution Freesat & Saorsat
2. Combination - Freeview & Saorsat

In order to get a recording facility in the room what should I be looking at?



Thanks.

funkey_monkey

zg3409 wrote: »

Most freeview UK PVRs allow recording of two terrestrial channels. Some combo boxes will allow recording of multiple terrestial channels if they are on the same multiplex. For them to record from two different multiplexes they need two terrestrial tuners.

Thanks in my OP I stated that our Freeview comes in on 3 channels so dual terrestrial tuners would be required.

zg3409

Freesat has far, far more channels. A genuine freesat box would be best for recording it.

Saorsat recording would be more difficult if you use a freesat box, but I doubt RTE etc. would be very important to record etc. Ideally you would have 3 satellite cables, with a seperate receiver for RTE etc, so you could record seperately from freesat box. This would be the best recording solution allowing 3 things to be recorded at once. A cheap single tuner HD receiver with recording ability would be OK for RTE etc.

funkey_monkey

zg3409 wrote: »

Freesat has far, far more channels. A genuine freesat box would be best for recording it.

Saorsat recording would be more difficult if you use a freesat box, but I doubt RTE etc. would be very important to record etc. Ideally you would have 3 satellite cables, with a seperate receiver for RTE etc, so you could record seperately from freesat box. This would be the best recording solution allowing 3 things to be recorded at once. A cheap single tuner HD receiver with recording ability would be OK for RTE etc.

Thanks!

So, for freesat I'd need a two box solution to allow recording? What could I achieve using a single box solution using both/only terrestrial/satellite input feeds.

RTE is important to record - or at least when I last asked it was...

Peter Rhea

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Yes, the last time I got the installer to do this it was a 1m dish.

What receiver(s) did you use with this installation? I seem to recall a past thread running a very similar course to this one.

zg3409

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Thanks!

So, for freesat I'd need a two box solution to allow recording? What could I achieve using a single box solution using both/only terrestrial/satellite input feeds.

RTE is important to record - or at least when I last asked it was...

The older humax boxes have an unapproved patch that allows combining the Saorsat and Freesat guides, however it may not work 100% and so may not reliably record without a glitch. The safest way to reliably record is to use a seperate box, however it is up to you.

Only two cables going from inside to outside are needed if only one box is used. The two DiSEqC switched would then be mounted outside near the dish(es)

funkey_monkey

Peter Rhea wrote: »

What receiver(s) did you use with this installation? I seem to recall a past thread running a very similar course to this one.

It was a Ferguson 250 for the Saorsat and I can't remember the name of the Freeview box - my brother done it before he left! Don't really want a 2 box solution so I was trying to avoid that.

funkey_monkey

zg3409 wrote: »

Only two cables going from inside to outside are needed if only one box is used. The two DiSEqC switched would then be mounted outside near the dish(es)

Okay, I'll read up a bit more about this style of setup.

funkey_monkey

Okay, I'm back home after being away with work and need to get this done in the coming week before I leave again - forgot about it for ages!

I'm not a fan of the Freesat from Sly so I can't see a reason to keep it. The EPG is rubbish as you have no indication as to what channels you receive and nor can you reorder them.

This leaves me with either genuine Freesat or Freeview.

I'm tempted to opt for Freesat as I should get a better picture reception with a satellite signal. It might be slightly more expensive, but then that is the trade off. Plus as Peter pointed out, our mux only carries Freeview Lite.

I've got a terrestrial aerial on the roof and I could opt for Freeview. However, I'm not sure what I gain here as I've got a satellite dish already installed which I have to update for Saorsat.

Therefore, it looks likely that I will try for an all satellite solution.

Next problem is the set top box - Freesat and Saorsat will result in two EPG's. This may force me back to a mixed solution - as the Ferguson 252 is a combo box.

Therefore, what I envisage my solution to be is:
- Replacement of current Sky dish with larger diameter dish.
- Replacement of quad input LNB (2 x Freesat from Sky, 1 x Sky+) with a possbly an octo input LNB on an offset arm.
(1 x Sky+, 1 x Freesat from Sky, 2 (possibly for recording facility) for Freesat in new room.
- Single Settop box (multiple boxes would be okay, if they could be managed via a single remote control).


1. Can someone confirm my logic above is sensible?
2. What is the best type of box which I could use for recording? Minimal recording will be required - as we have Sky+ setup in the main room, but I'd still like to introduce the facility as when my aunt is over everyone can get programmes recorded with no drama.
3. Is twin cabling feed into the room enough for what I am planning or is there any benefit for pulling in a third cable?
4. Is offsetting Astra on the Ka-Sat dish a normal enough thing? Do installers have any reason not to add an offset arm? I don't want to be blind sided by our installer saying that a two dish option is better because... or offseting the LNB causes... forcing me to choose between a Freeview and a second dish.
5. If the best option to incorporate recording facility with Freesat & Saorsat is a dual STB solution can this be obtained with one remote control managing both STB and the TV.


Many thanks,
FM.

zg3409

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Okay, I'm back home after being away with work and need to get this done in the coming week before I leave again - forgot about it for ages!

I'm not a fan of the Freesat from Sly so I can't see a reason to keep it. The EPG is rubbish as you have no indication as to what channels you receive and nor can you reorder them.

This leaves me with either genuine Freesat or Freeview.

I'm tempted to opt for Freesat as I should get a better picture reception with a satellite signal. It might be slightly more expensive, but then that is the trade off. Plus as Peter pointed out, our mux only carries Freeview Lite.

I've got a terrestrial aerial on the roof and I could opt for Freeview. However, I'm not sure what I gain here as I've got a satellite dish already installed which I have to update for Saorsat.

Therefore, it looks likely that I will try for an all satellite solution.

Next problem is the set top box - Freesat and Saorsat will result in two EPG's. This may force me back to a mixed solution - as the Ferguson 252 is a combo box.

Therefore, what I envisage my solution to be is:
- Replacement of current Sky dish with larger diameter dish.
- Replacement of quad input LNB (2 x Freesat from Sky, 1 x Sky+) with a possbly an octo input LNB on an offset arm.
(1 x Sky+, 1 x Freesat from Sky, 2 (possibly for recording facility) for Freesat in new room.
- Single Settop box (multiple boxes would be okay, if they could be managed via a single remote control).


1. Can someone confirm my logic above is sensible?
2. What is the best type of box which I could use for recording? Minimal recording will be required - as we have Sky+ setup in the main room, but I'd still like to introduce the facility as when my aunt is over everyone can get programmes recorded with no drama.
3. Is twin cabling feed into the room enough for what I am planning or is there any benefit for pulling in a third cable?
4. Is offsetting Astra on the Ka-Sat dish a normal enough thing? Do installers have any reason not to add an offset arm? I don't want to be blind sided by our installer saying that a two dish option is better because... or offseting the LNB causes... forcing me to choose between a Freeview and a second dish.
5. If the best option to incorporate recording facility with Freesat & Saorsat is a dual STB solution can this be obtained with one remote control managing both STB and the TV.


Many thanks,
FM.

1) I would not recommend Saorsat unless you are in a location with no other way of getting RTE. Any Saorsat setup would need a box that can leave freesat mode and do DiSEqC

2) Easiest to record is Freesat box but then only UK channels. Recording on a combo is hard to setup and may involve timers.

3) 2 Cables per room should be OK, but if plastering etc I would run 3 and a few computer Cat5E cables.

4) You MUST get an installer who has installed Saorsat before. A 2 dish solution is easier for the installer.

5) A universal remote can be programmed for controlling multiple boxes (I have such a setup) but you need to spend 30 Euro + on a harmony remote. You still need to press multiple buttons to switch boxes or pay 80+ for a more expensive universal remote.

funkey_monkey

zg3409 wrote: »

1) I would not recommend Saorsat unless you are in a location with no other way of getting RTE. Any Saorsat setup would need a box that can leave freesat mode and do DiSEqC

2) Easiest to record is Freesat box but then only UK channels. Recording on a combo is hard to setup and may involve timers.

3) 2 Cables per room should be OK, but if plastering etc I would run 3 and a few computer Cat5E cables.

4) You MUST get an installer who has installed Saorsat before. A 2 dish solution is easier for the installer.

5) A universal remote can be programmed for controlling multiple boxes (I have such a setup) but you need to spend 30 Euro + on a harmony remote. You still need to press multiple buttons to switch boxes or pay 80+ for a more expensive universal remote.

1. It is the only way of getting RTE - there is no other signal in our area apart from Saorsat - hence the problem! Are there any boxes like this out there?

2. Can live without recording if it is a hassle.

3. I can pull down some more just incase.

4. Our installer has done it before, but I would like to know if there are any reasons a single dish solution is worse - apart from being easier for a lazy installer?

5. Cheers for that. I'll google them now.

zg3409

funkey_monkey wrote: »

4. Our installer has done it before, but I would like to know if there are any reasons a single dish solution is worse - apart from being easier for a lazy installer?

Expensive horizon remotes (80+) make using multiple boxes a lot more manageable.

2 dishes mean you are less likely to lose all you channels at once, 2 dishes are more likely to work reliably, however if you get an installer that knows how to set up Saorsat then you should be OK.

funkey_monkey

zg3409 wrote: »

2 dishes mean you are less likely to lose all you channels at once, 2 dishes are more likely to work reliably, however if you get an installer that knows how to set up Saorsat then you should be OK.

2 dishes on the side of a house look a mess.

How could you lose all the channels - flex in the offset arm/insufficiently tightened bolts???

zg3409

funkey_monkey wrote: »

2 dishes on the side of a house look a mess.

How could you lose all the channels - flex in the offset arm/insufficiently tightened bolts???

I am not saying you should go the two dish route. It is probably 5 or 6 times harder for the installer to tweak everything right so all channels are strong, and no channels are weak and no drop outs occur. Also if anything moves slightly, it can mess up both LNBs.

As I said if you get an installer, and get him to guarantee the setup for 12 months then you should be fine.

funkey_monkey

Cheers - thanks for all that input. It gives me something when I speak to the guy.

For the STB - as it is for a second room a full 7 day EPG is not required for either setup. Do you know of any HD satellite boxes which would be able to handle Saorsat and Freesat - recording not a necessity?


Thanks again!

zg3409

The older humax foxsat have a non freesat mode with DiSEqC to enable use with Saorsat. There was also a software patch available, to enable combining the channels into the one guide, instead of needing to enter and leave non freesat mode all the time.

The newer boxes with freetime do not seem to have these options so far.

That box is a recording box, there may be non recording boxes available too. The box would need to have non freesat mode and DiSEqC ability. probably very few have. It may be possible with some of the older humax non recording boxes.

If you don't want 7 day EPG then any HD satellite box with DiSEqC will work, but channels will need to be manually tuned in, and only now and next guide.

funkey_monkey

zg3409 wrote: »

If you don't want 7 day EPG then any HD satellite box with DiSEqC will work, but channels will need to be manually tuned in, and only now and next guide.

Does the Ferguson Ariva 250 only provide now & next for Saorsat?

zg3409

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Does the Ferguson Ariva 250 only provide now & next for Saorsat?

I am not sure. Full 7 day EPG is probably sent using the MHEG5 format on Saorsat, so it is possible it will show 7 day guide. I have a Ferguson Ariva, and a Saorsat LNB, so I could test it if you really needed. There are one or two boxes "Saorsat approved" which means they should definitely show the 7 day EPG.

I would say there is a greater than 50% chance. There is a proper Saorsat thread and you could ask there. My dish is not set up at the minute, but it would only take me an hour to check.

funkey_monkey

Cheers - in regards to the dish issue, I've been told that we might not have planning permission for a 1m Saorsat dish and another dish for the Sky. Going to check that out now.

zg3409

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Cheers - in regards to the dish issue, I've been told that we might not have planning permission for a 1m Saorsat dish and another dish for the Sky. Going to check that out now.

In the south there is a general exemption of a single dish up to 1M mounted on the rear half of your house, (back, side or chimney) however given the thousands of dishes mounted on the front of houses I don't think it is really enforced, but I suppose it depends on the neightbours.

There is also an excemption for a 15ft pole for a TV aerial