Obliged to carry DoE cert?

Trick of the Tail

I was stopped at a Garda checkpoint yesterday driving my works vehicle, which is a commercial van.

The guard asked me where the DoE cert was, while looking at the windscreen. I said there's no DoE to display, he asked me if I had the cert with me, which I did not, so he asked me to produce my docs incl the DoE cert.

I asked him if I was legally obliged to carry the DoE cert, as this was the first I'd heard of this, and he ignored my question.

So I relay it here: Is it a legal requirement for a commercial vehicle to carry the DoE Certificate of Roadworthiness?

R.O.R

Pretty sure it isn't as we have them all here on file, rather than out in the hundreds of vans on fleet.

Might be a requirement to produce it within 10 days - not really sure on the ruling.

dgt

He should have asked for a CRW.

I don't think we've ever carried any of our ones in any of the vans and any time stopped no hassle

Trick of the Tail

What's a CRW?

dgt

Cert Of Roadworthiness. You get your doe done, get your cert then for €6 in the tax office you hand in the cert for a crw

Trick of the Tail

Ah yes of course. Is is a legal obligation to carry one of those then?

dgt

I don't think so, just to produce one afterwards

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Trick of the Tail

Well I produced it yesterday, and while there asked the Garda at the counter if I was obliged to carry the CRW.

She hummed and hawed and said 'you have to carry your licence and insurance cert' (not true).

When I pressed for an answer she dismissed me by saying 'you can phone the traffic corps on Monday and ask them'.

This particular 'member' must have been ill the day they taught how to deal with the public in Templemore. Ignorance is a word I'd use.

So I'm none the wiser.

uck51js9zml2yt

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

Well I produced it yesterday, and while there asked the Garda at the counter if I was obliged to carry the CRW.

She hummed and hawed and said 'you have to carry your licence and insurance cert' (not true).

When I pressed for an answer she dismissed me by saying 'you can phone the traffic corps on Monday and ask them'.

This particular 'member' must have been ill the day they taught how to deal with the public in Templemore. Ignorance is a word I'd use.

So I'm none the wiser.

you have to carry your license and insurance disk but I always kept my company's certs on file. didn't want 70 certs getting lost.

CiniO

In general it looks like that many gards just don't know the most basic regulations and requirements.

You are not obliged to carry your certificate of roadworthiness, neither insurance cert, but you might be asked to produce them on nearest garda station within 10 days.

CiniO

I wonder though how does it work if someone is asked to produce document within 10 days, but he can't.
F.e. you are driving to the airport for your 3 weeks holiday, and you get pulled over and asked to produce documents within 10 days?
What are you supposed to do? Miss the flight, cancel holidays, go back home and bring to document to the garda station?

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

You are not obliged to carry your certificate of roadworthiness, neither insurance cert, but you might be asked to produce them on nearest garda station within 10 days.

It's not the nearest Garda station. It's always been your choice, IIRC you had to nominate the station to produce, and with PULSE it can be anywhere

CiniO wrote: »

I wonder though how does it work if someone is asked to produce document within 10 days, but he can't.
F.e. you are driving to the airport for your 3 weeks holiday, and you get pulled over and asked to produce documents within 10 days?
What are you supposed to do? Miss the flight, cancel holidays, go back home and bring to document to the garda station?

You'll be summonsed for non production, it's then up to you to produce the documents in court, unless you can get someone else to produce them for you.

Scouserfan

From sept / oct this year a disc will be issued to display on your windscreen, like nct. The crw will be issued directly from Shannon rather than tax office, so the € 6 fee to local authority will cease, however there will be a levy applied to the test price by the RSA to cover their admin, which will be passed onto them by test centre.

CiniO

Scouserfan wrote: »

From sept / oct this year a disc will be issued to display on your windscreen, like nct. The crw will be issued directly from Shannon rather than tax office, so the € 6 fee to local authority will cease, however there will be a levy applied to the test price by the RSA to cover their admin, which will be passed onto them by test centre.

Any source for that info?

911s

Normally Gardai don't ask for DOE cert at roadside check if the vehicle is taxed, as you need DOE cert to tax commercial, although your test could be out up to 11 months.

Trick of the Tail

Well this guy did, even thou as has been pointed out that it should have been the certificate of road worthiness he was looking for.

The vehicle is taxed for another 9 months, so no issue there.

I think he was just being awkward for the sport of it, since he didn't even seem to know whether there should have been a displayed disc or not.

You know how they can be sometimes.

I don't understand why people just don't keep all their stuff in the glovebox if for no other reason as not to lose it. My insurance cert, nct cert, vlc etc are all in the pouch with my cars manual. I even have last years cert and old nct discs along with all service and parts receipts etc. basically everything is in the one place, in the glovebox.

testicle

Eduardo Microscopic Seeker wrote: »

I don't understand why people just don't keep all their stuff in the glovebox if for no other reason as not to lose it. My insurance cert, nct cert, vlc etc are all in the pouch with my cars manual. I even have last years cert and old nct discs along with all service and parts receipts etc. basically everything is in the one place, in the glovebox.

Remind me to rob your car and transfer it into my name

Max Power1

testicle wrote: »

Remind me to rob your car and transfer it into my name

Don't think you've got the balls to tbh!

cormie

What happens if you don't pay the €6 for the CRW? It's a lot of hassle going to the tax office and if the garage hand written cert is enough to prove your vehicle road worthy, then what's the point?

testicle

testicle wrote: »

Remind me to rob your car and transfer it into my name

I was waiting for someone to come out with this. For one you can't live your life in fear and my chances of misplacing the vlc if I took it out if the car are a lot higher than it getting stolen.

Also do you really think someone would get away so easy with stealing a car and changing the name over? Not a hope, they probably wouldn't notice the vlc and the car would be reported stolen, they would have no keys, lack of my signature on the transfer of ownership, etc etc. it would make no difference.

testicle

My current car was transferred into my name without my signature, so that's that theory gone.

testicle

testicle wrote: »

My current car was transferred into my name without my signature, so that's that theory gone.

That makes no sense, your current car into your name without your signature?

It would have had the sellers signature on it though and in this case it's the seller that matters. They would have to forge the signature and so would easily be caught on investigation.

It wouldn't get that far anyway, the car would be reported stolen weeks before it was in the name of someone else and would be either found or disappear.

CiniO

I personally think it's a bad idea to keep all the documents in the car, and I never do it.

But keeping registration cert as Johanna Hissing Repression mentioned is really stupid.

As pointed out if your car is stolen, someone might just transfer it into his name - they can forge your signature. And then it will be your word against their word that car was stolen and not sold. Missing car keys - what stops someone to steal your car with the keys. You already advertised publically on the internet that you keep your reg cert in the car. So now all the work anyone needs to do is to locate you, steal your car keys and your car, and forge your signature. Car is theirs and there is very little you can do. You also won't get a cent from insurance company.

I always keep my reg cert in safe place, and when I travel abroad I put it into my wallet.
Never ever keep it in the car.

Scouserfan

CiniO wrote: »

Any source for that info?

New draft of commercial vehicle road worthiness test procedures is on RSA.ie including introduction of covis (new centralised computer system)

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

I personally think it's a bad idea to keep all the documents in the car, and I never do it.

But keeping registration cert as Johanna Hissing Repression mentioned is really stupid.

As pointed out if your car is stolen, someone might just transfer it into his name - they can forge your signature. And then it will be your word against their word that car was stolen and not sold. Missing car keys - what stops someone to steal your car with the keys. You already advertised publically on the internet that you keep your reg cert in the car. So now all the work anyone needs to do is to locate you, steal your car keys and your car, and forge your signature. Car is theirs and there is very little you can do. You also won't get a cent from insurance company.

I always keep my reg cert in safe place, and when I travel abroad I put it into my wallet.
Never ever keep it in the car.

You make it sound like stealing the car is easy (it's not), you make it sound like getting my keys is easy (even harder). Then you say forge my signature, sure all you have to do is get the signatures compared and it will be obvious.

What about the fact the car is reported stolen instantly, who do you think will be believed the type of scum who steal a car, with no proof of money to pay for it or an educted respectable person with an exemplary record?

It would be very obvious and there would be no difficulty in proving it.

Whatever about the vlc it's madness not keeping the the insurance cert and nct in the car.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

CiniO

Eduardo Microscopic Seeker wrote: »

You make it sound like stealing the car is easy (it's not), you make it sound like getting my keys is easy (even harder). Then you say forge my signature, sure all you have to do is get the signatures compared and it will be obvious.

Trust me. There are people out there, for whom all those things are easy. It's their job (stealing cars) and they are qualified and good at it, like we are qualified and good at our jobs.

What about the fact the car is reported stolen instantly, who do you think will be believed the type of scum who steal a car, with no proof of money to pay for it or an educted respectable person with an exemplary record?

I think your imagination of car theft is some scum junkie wearing old hoodie and begging on the street normally.
I think you might be greatly mistaking.

It would be very obvious and there would be no difficulty in proving it.

Are you sure?
Imagine you buy a car off me. We sign a logbook, post it, I hand you the keys and off you go.
Then 5 minutes later, I ring the gards and tell them that my car was stolen. My keys were taken off my pocket, and car disappeared. My logbook was in the glove box.
Gards start their investigation and find out in a while that car has new owner.
So they go to you, and you tell them that you just bought this car.

Do you think they will believe me?
Or will they believe you?

Whatever about the vlc it's madness not keeping the the insurance cert and nct in the car.

I only keep what I'm required to keep (discs).
Insurance and NCT certs are in safe place.

mikehammer67

so whats the minimum you have to keep in the car?

driving licence?

rovoagho

I love the way some consider the signature a verification factor, as if the DoT has a graphanalyst on staff, loupe at the ready.

I'd be surprised if they do even a rudimentary comparison with the cert from the last sale. Knowing Irish efficiencies, the documents are probably either destroyed or stored in a massive warehouse in the middle of Leitrim; scanning to commence in 2048.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

CiniO

mikehammer67 wrote: »

so whats the minimum you have to keep in the car?

driving licence?

To legally drive an Irish registered car in Ireland you need to display tax disc, insurance disc (10 days after the certificate was issued) and NCT disc if car is over 4 years old.
You have to carry a driving licence with you.


If you drive abroad, you also need to carry registration certificate and insurance certificate.

But except from discs, nothing is advisable to be left in car.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

Trust me. There are people out there, for whom all those things are easy. It's their job (stealing cars) and they are qualified and good at it, like we are qualified and good at our jobs.

I think you are mistaken by thinking they are so good that they will just get away so easily though, they wont.

CiniO wrote: »

I think your imagination of car theft is some scum junkie wearing old hoodie and begging on the street normally.
I think you might be greatly mistaking.

On the face of it they may not look like scumbags but they will all have a record as long as there arm and be known to gardai.

CiniO wrote: »

Are you sure?
Imagine you buy a car off me. We sign a logbook, post it, I hand you the keys and off you go.
Then 5 minutes later, I ring the gards and tell them that my car was stolen. My keys were taken off my pocket, and car disappeared. My logbook was in the glove box.
Gards start their investigation and find out in a while that car has new owner.
So they go to you, and you tell them that you just bought this car.

Do you think they will believe me?
Or will they believe you?

You see this is key, if you are a well respected person, never in trouble with the law, good job etc then the chances of your doing the above are almost zero so in a genuine case things are immediately in your favour. If you are a known criminal/general trouble maker, the type of person to try what you describe above then things will of course be very different.

There are many other things too, like was the car advertised, was there a record of phone calls between you and the person buying the car, did the person buying the car withdraw money from their account or get a loan recently, do they have the spare key (any key, again you assume they will get there hands on keys, good luck to them getting my keys) etc. I think you are over underestimating greatly the difficulty in pulling of the scam of stealing a car and transferring it into your name.

CiniO wrote: »

I only keep what I'm required to keep (discs).
Insurance and NCT certs are in safe place.

i.e. a locked glove box. I keep a lot more than just car documents in the glove box, my passport for instance never leaves the glove box unless in use. Why put yourself through the hassle of having to produce an insurance cert when you can have it with you? The glove box is the place for your insurance cert and I chose to keep everything else there too as I like everything in one place.

I also travel between home and where I rent quite a lot and never know when I will need certain things so the obvious place to keep them is the car.

Scouserfan

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Could take years to come into effect.

It will be active in sept. pal works in vtn centre. Tells me live cameras filming tests going on as we'll as live updates of national vehicle driver file whole booking in test