Which of the Big Four offer the best graduate programme?

another question

I heard about the Research & Development Tax Practice graduate programme provided by KPMG in Dublin. Has anyone any experience of this programme that would be willing to give me some information about it.

Also, I have researched all the Big Four companies and KPMG stand out to me as being the best, what is the general opinion on this.

I am an Accounting Technician looking to study the ACA and become a Tax specialist so the above programme seems to offer me exactly what I am looking for but I have a couple of questions so if anyone has any experience in this area your advice would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Rothmans

another question wrote: »

I heard about the Research & Development Tax Practice graduate programme provided by KPMG in Dublin. Has anyone any experience of this programme that would be willing to give me some information about it.

Also, I have researched all the Big Four companies and KPMG stand out to me as being the best, what is the general opinion on this.

I am an Accounting Technician looking to study the ACA and become a Tax specialist so the above programme seems to offer me exactly what I am looking for but I have a couple of questions so if anyone has any experience in this area your advice would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Depends entirely on the person. Whichever programme best suits your needs is the one you should go for. For yo it was KPMG, for me, it was PwC, for others it'll be Delloite, and then some unfortunate souls will get stuck with a certain other company which shall remain nameless.

another question

Rothmans wrote: »

Depends entirely on the person. Whichever programme best suits your needs is the one you should go for. For yo it was KPMG, for me, it was PwC, for others it'll be Delloite, and then some unfortunate souls will get stuck with a certain other company which shall remain nameless.

Thanks for the reply. I am finding it difficult to find information on the programme. What is the training salary roughly? and do they pay all your courses/exams etc as part of the training contract.

Rothmans

another question wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I am finding it difficult to find information on the programme. What is the training salary roughly? and do they pay all your courses/exams etc as part of the training contract.

It depends on whether or not you have a Masters and whether you are going to do the ACA exams as well as the AITI, or just the AITI. I don't have a masters, and the starting salaries offered were as follows;

Deloitte; €21,500 ( ACA and AITI)
KPMG; €22,500 (ACA and AITI)
PwC; €23,500 (AITI only)

These salaries are subject to change with each intake.

I didn't apply to any of the others.
For information on the programmes, each of the the big four generally have some very helpful pdf brochures on the graduate programmes somewhere on their websites.

Hope that helps

another question

Rothmans wrote: »

It depends on whether or not you have a Masters and whether you are going to do the ACA exams as well as the AITI, or just the AITI. I don't have a masters, and the starting salaries offered were as follows;

Deloitte; €21,500 ( ACA and AITI)
KPMG; €22,500 (ACA and AITI)
PwC; €23,500 (AITI only)

These salaries are subject to change with each intake.

I didn't apply to any of the others.
For information on the programmes, each of the the big four generally have some very helpful pdf brochures on the graduate programmes somewhere on their websites.

Hope that helps

Thanks so much for that info, much appreciated. Better than I thought!... Pwc are closed for applications. Kpmg allowed me to register online 'under apply now' but when I downloaded and starting reading the brochure it seems applications closed for 2013. Generally do firms not take applications for this Sept at this stage?! I've probably missed the boat.

Rothmans

another question wrote: »

Thanks so much for that info, much appreciated. Better than I thought!... Pwc are closed for applications. Kpmg allowed me to register online 'under apply now' but when I downloaded and starting reading the brochure it seems applications closed for 2013. Generally do firms not take applications for this Sept at this stage?! I've probably missed the boat.

For this year, applications are well closed I'm afraid. Next milkround will open late September/early October for the 2014 intake. Good luck in your applications .

69455388

I heard through from a friend of a friend that the starting salary in deloitte for consulting is 27k. is this true or rubbish? anybody any insight?

Stabshauptmann

Rothmans wrote: »

For information on the programmes, each of the the big four generally have some very helpful pdf brochures on the graduate programmes somewhere on their websites.

Just a note on the KPMG brochure; it would appear that KPMG offer ACA grads more study leave than the other big 4. This is an inaccuracy. The tax trainees get more leave than the auditor & advisory trainees at CAP2, but the auditors and advisory trainees get more at FAE. While the two balance each other out, the brochure reports the higher allowance available at CAP 2 and at FAE, which is mis leading as ordinarily an individual trainee cannot avail of both higher allowances.

Stabshauptmann

Rothmans wrote: »

For this year, applications are well closed I'm afraid. Next milkround will open late September/early October for the 2014 intake. Good luck in your applications .

Typically applications are closed at this point - the "milk rounds", advisory departments however can hire all year round depending on their needs

SashaH

Slightly unrelated to the Thread but I have heard great things about BDO and GT. BDO in particular have a good social environment for the staff. Unfortunately I didnt get in

Stabshauptmann

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Typically applications are closed at this point - the "milk rounds", advisory departments however can hire all year round depending on their needs

Apparently EY hiring for Autumn 2013 Grads!

https://ey.taleo.net/careersection/ukeycamdeg001/jobdetail.ftl?lang=en&job=IRE000BC

Johnny_Fontane

Remember future ACA's, that its is incredibly important which area of big 4 you go into.

I specialise in recruiting for accountants and we see so many newly qualified big 4 ACA's trying to move from FS audit into Industry roles.

Whilst it can be done, its difficult.

Its not enough to just get in to the Big 4, you need to make sure that you get into the right area and know what to expect when you come out.

sodabread

Rothmans wrote: »

Depends entirely on the person. Whichever programme best suits your needs is the one you should go for. For yo it was KPMG, for me, it was PwC, for others it'll be Delloite, and then some unfortunate souls will get stuck with a certain other company which shall remain nameless.

I think I know which one you're talking about. What makes it less desirable than the others?

April O Neill

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Apparently EY hiring for Autumn 2013 Grads!

https://ey.taleo.net/careersection/ukeycamdeg001/jobdetail.ftl?lang=en&job=IRE000BC

How long after you finish college is it acceptable to apply for that? 4 years too much?

An Citeog

April O Neill wrote: »

How long after you finish college is it acceptable to apply for that? 4 years too much?

There are plenty of people in big 4 training contracts who studied something unrelated and worked for a few years after finishing college and then decided on a career change. There's no harm applying anyway.

shawki

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Apparently EY hiring for Autumn 2013 Grads!

https://ey.taleo.net/careersection/ukeycamdeg001/jobdetail.ftl?lang=en&job=IRE000BC

HC3 in English, Is that always a requirement?

Gael23

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Apparently EY hiring for Autumn 2013 Grads!

https://ey.taleo.net/careersection/ukeycamdeg001/jobdetail.ftl?lang=en&job=IRE000BC

Those entry requirements will exclude a hell of alot of applicants. Not sure I would want EY anyway.

Froggy123

Can anybody shed light on why people prefer the other three to Ey?? Is it related to study leave and time in lieu?

PunkFreud

Froggy123 wrote: »

Can anybody shed light on why people prefer the other three to Ey?? Is it related to study leave and time in lieu?

I believe that E&Y are the only firm of the Big 4 which does not give TOIL. This makes a big difference during busy seasons, when you're essentially working for nothing at times.

April O Neill

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Apparently EY hiring for Autumn 2013 Grads!

https://ey.taleo.net/careersection/ukeycamdeg001/jobdetail.ftl?lang=en&job=IRE000BC

Applied for this. Gave it my all. We shall see!

freema

Does anyone know if kpmg hiring within their restructuring and forensics department?

TokenWhite

Minimum of 425 points? Christ alive, even with what I would think is a relatively strong CV compared to most graduates (comfortable 1.1, couple of different jobs a few academic awards, including one national one) I think that's me out. Is it similar criteria for all the big accounting firms?

I never really knew what I wanted to do with my life when I sat my LC so was never really motivated to study for it, and only managed to get a very average 305 points in it. I thought my work experience and the other achievements would make up for it but if the applications without the minimum LC points are filtered out, am I as well not to bother even wasting my time applying? and rather just focus on smaller firms?

Shane732

ryanf1 wrote: »

Those entry requirements will exclude a hell of alot of applicants. Not sure I would want EY anyway.

I think they've had problems with people being able to read auditing standards in reason years. The HC3 in English is probably an attempt to correct this!

Be warned, if you go into accountancy you will inevitably end up coming out with jokes like the one above.

Personally, if I was going Big 4 the only two I'd be interest in would be either PwC or KPMG. Albeit I'd be going in at manager level I'd have no interest in Do Little and touche (again I apologise for the stupid joke) or E&Y.

Also, the comment made earlier in the thread about picking your department is a very good point. Your chances of picking up a general industry role if you've spent 3 1/2 years working in a specialised R&D department are going to be very much reduced.

I'd also recommend graduates look at GT.

Gael23

Shane732 wrote: »

I think they've had problems with people being able to read auditing standards in reason years. The HC3 in English is probably an attempt to correct this!

Its not just that, its the LC Points. I got 395 so would be dismissed off hand.

Chattastrophe!

ryanf1 wrote: »

Its not just that, its the LC Points. I got 395 so would be dismissed off hand.

As far as I remember, they have a section in the online application form where you can include any mitigating circumstances which may have affected your exam results.

By the way, all of the big firms have similar LC points minimum requirements, even if they don't mention them in the recruitment ads.

Gael23

Tlachtga wrote: »

As far as I remember, they have a section in the online application form where you can include any mitigating circumstances which may have affected your exam results.

Would you say something like you made a poor subject choice there or more personal things? There are things I could say but I wouldn't want to come across negative in an application

bigmc23

ryanf1 wrote: »

Would you say something like you made a poor subject choice there or more personal things? There are things I could say but I wouldn't want to come across negative in an application

poor subject choice isn't mitigating circumstances. Things like a bereavement etc are

TokenWhite

I wonder is " I didn't give a sh*t about my leaving cert" a mitigating circumstance? I hope so.

April O Neill

ryanf1 wrote: »

Those entry requirements will exclude a hell of alot of applicants. Not sure I would want EY anyway.

Aren't they pretty standard entry requirements?

April O Neill

TokenWhite wrote: »

Minimum of 425 points? Christ alive, even with what I would think is a relatively strong CV compared to most graduates (comfortable 1.1, couple of different jobs a few academic awards, including one national one) I think that's me out. Is it similar criteria for all the big accounting firms?

I never really knew what I wanted to do with my life when I sat my LC so was never really motivated to study for it, and only managed to get a very average 305 points in it. I thought my work experience and the other achievements would make up for it but if the applications without the minimum LC points are filtered out, am I as well not to bother even wasting my time applying? and rather just focus on smaller firms?

It does suck, but I think they are looking for consistency, to know you have the ability to focus for the professional exams. The LC is in ways more intensive than college exams.

However, search through the milkround thread. I gather from that that not all firms are that hung up on good LC results, or a perfect degree. Extracurricular activities are important too.

Gael23

April O Neill wrote: »

It does suck, but I think they are looking for consistency, to know you have the ability to focus for the professional exams. The LC is in ways more intensive than college exams.

However, search through the milkround thread. I gather from that that not all firms are that hung up on good LC results, or a perfect degree. Extracurricular activities are important too.

I think there is alot more to me than my academic grades and I would like to have the chance to show that to a company. Some is due to personal reasons which mean that what I have achieved in academic terms is quite impressive for me personally.

April O Neill

ryanf1 wrote: »

I think there is alot more to me than my academic grades and I would like to have the chance to show that to a company.

There's a lot more to all of us, including people who tick all those boxes! These programmes are hugely competitive to get into, so they need to cut down the numbers too, in addition to knowing someone has the studying chops.

ryanf1 wrote: »

Some is due to personal reasons which mean that what I have achieved in academic terms is quite impressive for me personally.

I understand. My degree took six years with some crap results thrown in, due to a long illness. I got a 2.1 in the end, so have always just been honest about the reasons for my lacklustre performance some of those years.

Gael23

April O Neill wrote: »

I understand. My degree took six years with some crap results thrown in, due to a long illness. I got a 2.1 in the end, so have always just been honest about the reasons for my lacklustre performance some of those years.

Does that honesty get you anywhere? I have had medical issues since I was born so what I have managed to achieve both in school and college is a million miles from the way things were supposed to turn out. My telling them about that I would be slightly worried it might be a turn off even though its an attempt to explain my grades.

April O Neill

ryanf1 wrote: »

Does that honesty get you anywhere? I have had medical issues since I was born

Yes, I've always been open about it. I've got a few jobs now where they were fully knowledgeable on it. It's better to be honest, and actually, potentially employers need to know about it, as if you don't inform them and become ill again, it can breach your contract.

If it has affected academic results, it will probably help to bring it up, rather than hinder. I understand your apprehension, I was the same. Put it this way, what have you got to lose? If you don't explain why your results aren't up to their requirements, then you won't get a look in. This way you might!

Rothmans

ryanf1 wrote: »

Does that honesty get you anywhere? I have had medical issues since I was born so what I have managed to achieve both in school and college is a million miles from the way things were supposed to turn out. My telling them about that I would be slightly worried it might be a turn off even though its an app emit to explain my grades.

I know what you're saying alright, how close were you to the minimum entry requirements?

Gael23

Rothmans wrote: »

I know what you're saying alright, how close were you to the minimum entry requirements?

I got 395 LC points and will most likely graduate with a 2:2 degree. Most want 400+ points and a 2:1 degree.

witchgirl26

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Remember future ACA's, that its is incredibly important which area of big 4 you go into.

I specialise in recruiting for accountants and we see so many newly qualified big 4 ACA's trying to move from FS audit into Industry roles.

Whilst it can be done, its difficult.

Its not enough to just get in to the Big 4, you need to make sure that you get into the right area and know what to expect when you come out.

Hmmm I'm not sure about this at all really. I qualified via the FS audit department in KPMG a couple of years ago. Stayed on for a bit and then last year decided to move to pastures new. I applied for lots of jobs within the financial industry as that's where my strengths were according to the recruiter & based on my experience......nada from 14 interviews. Was offered a job in industry in a sector I'd never gone near in Internal Audit (so no figures really involved) after 1 interview with them. Also a lot of the big 4 don't let you pick which audit sector you go into.

An Citeog

ryanf1 wrote: »

I got 395 LC points and will most likely graduate with a 2:2 degree. Most want 400+ points and a 2:1 degree.

Why would they choose you over someone with 425+ points, a 2.1 and extra curriculars? That's who you'd be competing against and it'd be impossible for them to interview everybody that applies.

Also, the professional exams are a couple of steps up from undergrad level so there's a greater chance that somebody who meets the entry criteria will get them first time than somebody who doesn't. Also, the LC is the only exam that almost all candidates will have sat, so is a useful comparison aswell as having to distinguish between various courses across different colleges.

April O Neill

An Citeog wrote: »

Also, the professional exams are a couple of steps up from undergrad level so there's a greater chance that somebody who meets the entry criteria will get them first time than somebody who doesn't. Also, the LC is the only exam that almost all candidates will have sat, so is a useful comparison aswell as having to distinguish between various courses across different colleges.

Good points.

I've never done any professional exams, but have heard they are tough. Which undergrad have never been, once I've put the work in. And then you have to factor in that people are working full-time while studying for professionals.

I think another reason why the LC is considered is that it is, in some ways, more gruelling than undergrad in that you have a wide range of subjects to study, and because you have full days at school, doing well at it shows you have the time-management skills you need if study and working.

freema

Has anyone heard any replies from ey?

April O Neill

freema wrote: »

Has anyone heard any replies from ey?

Not yet!

April O Neill

freema wrote: »

Has anyone heard any replies from ey?

April O Neill wrote: »

Not yet!

But to add to this; the closing date was only Monday the 26th, so I wouldn't fret just yet if I were you.

freema

Got a phone call off them this morning!did anyone else hear any replies?

April O Neill

freema wrote: »

Got a phone call off them this morning!did anyone else hear any replies?

Nope, I'll take that as a no for me so! What date did you submit your application?

April O Neill

On my job page it's says
Submission Completed – Updated: 30/Aug/13

Which is today. Wonder what 'updated' means?

Stabshauptmann

A friendly heads up, you are not in your friend's kitchen.

You'd be surprised what people say in pubs, buses, boards.ie or facebook that they think is private, and well, it's not...

Stabshauptmann

TokenWhite wrote: »

Minimum of 425 points? Christ alive, even with what I would think is a relatively strong CV compared to most graduates (comfortable 1.1, couple of different jobs a few academic awards, including one national one) I think that's me out. Is it similar criteria for all the big accounting firms?

I never really knew what I wanted to do with my life when I sat my LC so was never really motivated to study for it, and only managed to get a very average 305 points in it. I thought my work experience and the other achievements would make up for it but if the applications without the minimum LC points are filtered out, am I as well not to bother even wasting my time applying? and rather just focus on smaller firms?

I do not know how the HR department work. But I was in a different firm in 2011 and put a friend's CV forward. He had 445 points and it was rejected because he had less than 500 LC points. I told the head of dept in as polite and politik way as possible that that was a nonesense, but that was their call.

April O Neill

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

A friendly heads up, you are not in your friend's kitchen.

You'd be surprised what people say in pubs, buses, boards.ie or facebook that they think is private, and well, it's not...

Post deleted, though there was nothing in that post that wasn't on my application.

Though on Facebook, if your page is locked down, you only have to worry about what you write on other people's pages. Your own page can very much be private bar profile pic and cover photos.

April O Neill

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

I do not know how the HR department work. But I was in a different firm in 2011 and put a friend's CV forward. He had 445 points and it was rejected because he had less than 500 LC points. I told the head of dept in as polite and politik way as possible that that was a nonesense, but that was their call.

Did he have a 2.1 degree? Did he have the required grades in Maths and English?

freema

Has anyone heard anything about their interviews?