Fire on 18:05 Belfast-Dublin 06/06/13

suicide_circus

From RTe.ie

An investigation is under way after a fire broke out on a Dublin bound train outside Newry, Co. Down.
[snip -- don't quote full articles, and please include a link! - mod]

Thankfully it wasnt a worse situation. Was anyone here on board?

flyingsnail

already a thread running on it here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056965679

kingshankly

Transport minister Danny Kennedy de training passengers you eouldnt see Leo doing that

Alun

I've read a bit of that thread over on the Rail sub-forum but as a lay person I can't understand a word of it ... EGV, HEP etc.

Any chance of an 'executive summary' of what the problem is with these trains?

Rocky Bay

Alun wrote: »

I've read a bit of that thread over on the Rail sub-forum but as a lay person I can't understand a word of it ... EGV, HEP etc.

Any chance of an 'executive summary' of what the problem is with these trains?

HEP= HEAD END POWER. A passenger train derives its electricity to power its heating/a.c./lighting needs from the "head end of the train"- its locomotive.

flyingsnail

Alun wrote: »

I've read a bit of that thread over on the Rail sub-forum but as a lay person I can't understand a word of it ... EGV, HEP etc.

Any chance of an 'executive summary' of what the problem is with these trains?

EGV = Electrical Generator Van, an extra coach with generators for electric power for the coaches
HEP=Head end Power, draws power from the locomotive to power the electric in the coaches

HEP adds additional stress and maintenance problems on the engine which leads to more frequent breakdowns. The EGV were being put on the Enterprise service to improve reliability but they had to be withdrawn for repairs.

Alun

Thanks. I would have thought though that the power draw from the coaches would pale into insignificance compared to that required for motive power? Or were the generators in the head end underspecced for the job, and even this small extra load pushes them over the edge?

goingnowhere

Power demand is equivalent to about 250hp but its 380AC Tri Phase

Only reasonable way to generate a nice stable 50Hz AC source is constant speed on the engine which is 900rpm for the equipment in use. Engines rated max RPM is, 900rpm

201 class predates IGBT inverter technology so its fixed rotational speed or no lights on down the back

flyingsnail

Lights, doors, PA, AC it all adds up. HEP places a constant strain on the engine. While HEP is a common fault that cause failures on the enterprise anything about the cause of the fire yesterday would be purely speculation.

Losty Dublin

Alun wrote: »

Thanks. I would have thought though that the power draw from the coaches would pale into insignificance compared to that required for motive power? Or were the generators in the head end underspecced for the job, and even this small extra load pushes them over the edge?

You are talking power for other on board systems such as air con, train heating, train doors, the WC, some on board alarm and sensors, the on board catering kitchen, ensuring a charge for back up batteries for emergencies and that. To ensure a strong and reliable electrical feed the generator has to run at a specific speed and hence the train engine has to run at higher minimum revs as well.

In the case of a 201 class loco the revs have to be at about 700 RPM to run the generator; it's to do with the gearing ratios and the sort of electrical requirements as well; somebody more techie may be able to explain it for us.

goingnowhere

700 rpm in standby mode its tapped off the main traction alternator, 900 rpm in traction mode, its tapped off the HEP alternator

Stand in Connolly and watch the Enterprise depart, there is no change in the engine noise as it pulls away as its already at full speed sitting in the platform

Captain Chaos

goingnowhere wrote: »

Stand in Connolly and watch the Enterprise depart, there is no change in the engine noise as it pulls away as its already at full speed sitting in the platform

Even just looking at the speed and force of the exhaust gases coming from the roof anyone can see the loco is under pressure just standing still.

Kensington

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Even just looking at the speed and force of the exhaust gases coming from the roof anyone can see the loco is under pressure just standing still.

Not to mention the screaming off the engine.

kingshankly

It's constantly in notch eight unless in standby mode

dowlingm

Alun wrote: »

I've read a bit of that thread over on the Rail sub-forum but as a lay person I can't understand a word of it ... EGV, HEP etc.

Any chance of an 'executive summary' of what the problem is with these trains?

Alun, compare to the Cork-Dublin Mark 4 trains which don't have quite the same volume of issues and where Enterprise locomotives are often found having "a rest"

The driving coach at the end of a Mark 4 set has no seats. It has a generator able to provide power for the entire coach. The driving coach at the end of the Enterprise has seats and no generator, so the only source of power is the locomotive itself. There are three ways to solve the issue (aside from money issues):

• Convert the Enterprise driving coach to something like a Mark 4 coach. But because of platform length issues at Connolly that means Enterprise loses some of its maximum capacity per train.
• Fit the 201 with an auxiliary generator similar to what was done with VIA Rail's F40PH locomotives. Problem there is there's no space in the loco, whereas the VIA locomotives had space at the rear end.
  
• Return the EGVs, which used to run on the "orange" Intercity trains (Mark 3s) to service after repairs. Given the history of the EGV refurb programme let us all hope that is not good money after bad.

Idle 201:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBhBgbQZISg

201 switching from standby HEP to normal HEP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unaijc2XBVA

GTE

My oh my, the 201s really stand no chance given that type of consistent engine strain, or in other words, acceleration of engine age. It is a wonder how they were introduced into that type of running at all. Forward planning and all that.

SeanW

Meanwhile for a little light relief; this picture sums up Irish rail perfectly

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=470058979742569&set=a.470058749742592.1073741829.310456715702797&type=1&theater

Note the destination sign on the 29K

Hilly Bill

What did you expect the sign to say?

bikeman1

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What did you expect the sign to say?

Dublin Connolly where the train was going to??

Jamie2k9

bikeman1 wrote: »

Dublin Connolly where the train was going to??

Any when would passengers on the train see the sign, no passengers were going to be picked up en route + the fact passengers on Belfast line are not used to having external LED displays.....

kingshankly

The display is linked to the Id which wasn't recognised as it isn't programmed in on 29s.
And bray must have been its previous journey

Hilly Bill

bikeman1 wrote: »

Dublin Connolly where the train was going to??

It was a replacement train in an emergency , the name on the front of the train means nothing.

Hungerford

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It was a replacement train in an emergency , the name on the front of the train means nothing.

I don't think that setting the destination display was the top of their priorities at that time.

Captain Chaos

Hardly expect them to key in Rescue Train or some such.