To build or not to build

larrymiller

Lads do yee reckon one would be mad to build a slatted shed for finishing cattle, currently just have normal sheds but thinking in the longrun for myself when I take over, what's peoples advice on it, I have been talking to the banks and that end is ok, I'm just thinking the likes of, slurry spreader, adgitator, planning and design, have a 110 hp tractor so I'm ok if I was to get my own machinery, also would I be wasting my time if I was to wait on more grants to come out ( cause I think I would) any advice apreciated, lm

bob charles

would you not try and lease a shed for awhile and see how it goes, once built it has to be filled to have any chance of making it pay. Forget about grants as it will cost the same if grant comes again. I have gotten a building even though built a couple of sheds during the waste management grant.

..oh and yes you are mad

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

would you not try and lease a shed for awhile and see how it goes, once built it has to be filled to have any chance of making it pay. Forget about grants as it will cost the same if grant comes again. I have gotten a building even though built a couple of sheds during the waste management grant.

..oh and yes you are mad

I would be with Bob on this. You can justify anything if you really want to. My view on buildings is if you can rent don't build. Why tie up your money when you can use someone else's.
As Bob said if you build you will have to fill it

Manoffeeling

No he isn't mad. Too much negativity from people who yet remain on the land. I'm starting to build in the spring, I hope. 6 span tank and ly back with a row of pens on the other side of the feed passage. I have no machinery or cattle but my sanity!

Too many knockers here, and I don't mean the mammary kind.

bob charles

Manoffeeling wrote: »

Too much negativity from people who yet remain on the land.

I have no machinery or cattle but my sanity!

hope you still have your sanity and positivity once you get cattle.

Manoffeeling

bob charles wrote: »

hope you still have your sanity and positivity once you get cattle.

Have you any plans on getting out of cattle?

yellow50HX

larrymiller wrote: »

Lads do yee reckon one would be mad to build a slatted shed for finishing cattle, currently just have normal sheds but thinking in the longrun for myself when I take over, what's peoples advice on it, I have been talking to the banks and that end is ok, I'm just thinking the likes of, slurry spreader, adgitator, planning and design, have a 110 hp tractor so I'm ok if I was to get my own machinery, also would I be wasting my time if I was to wait on more grants to come out ( cause I think I would) any advice apreciated, lm

what do you mean by normal sheds???

if you have a cubile shed these can be used easy enough by finishing cattle it just depends on the size of the cubilces. there is no point of buildign a new shed if the one you have is good enough but only needs a few adjustments.

if you have cheap acccess to straw and have a concrete floor shed can it be used?

the questions you should be asking are;
what slurry storage do i have and is it up to standard?
do i have enough slurry storage?
how do i empty the tanks?
what kind of cattle accomadation do i have?
what kind of feeding set up have i got?
where can i reduce work load?

hugo29

larrymiller wrote: »

Lads do yee reckon one would be mad to build a slatted shed for finishing cattle, currently just have normal sheds but thinking in the longrun for myself when I take over, what's peoples advice on it, I have been talking to the banks and that end is ok, I'm just thinking the likes of, slurry spreader, adgitator, planning and design, have a 110 hp tractor so I'm ok if I was to get my own machinery, also would I be wasting my time if I was to wait on more grants to come out ( cause I think I would) any advice apreciated, lm

i currently rent the slatted shed i use and have done for 6 years now, i have toyed with the idea of building but the outlay and payback always puts me off

i know the rent is dead money but i can walk away anytime i want, its 5 mins from my house and 2 mins from some of the land (silage ground)

the drawbacks are
1. there is so much i would do to improve the shed facilities but dont want too as its not mine.
2. Security, a shed away from the main house is a beacon to thieves which is becoming a risk.
3. Difficult to install calving cameras due to distance

but overall i will continue to rent as it suits me at moment

bob charles

Manoffeeling wrote: »

Have you any plans on getting out of cattle?

yes I sure have, but until my financial commitments are met I can go nowhere:(

yellow50HX

hugo29 wrote: »

i currently rent the slatted shed i use and have done for 6 years now, i have toyed with the idea of building but the outlay and payback always puts me off

i know the rent is dead money but i can walk away anytime i want, its 5 mins from my house and 2 mins from some of the land (silage ground)

the drawbacks are
1. there is so much i would do to improve the shed facilities but dont want too as its not mine.
2. Security, a shed away from the main house is a beacon to thieves which is becoming a risk.
3. Difficult to install calving cameras due to distance

but overall i will continue to rent as it suits me at moment

thats the big draw back on renting shed IMO. we build a slatted shed as a feeding passage in from of our housing a few years back and to be honest it was the best thing we could have done. it has made a huge difference wrt feeding and housing. we also use it for sperating and feeding weanlings prior to sale and use it for handling cattle too. whatever about hosuing stores or finshers having good handling facilites is a must for cows and calves.

neighbour approached me about using his shed a few years ago. its accross the road from me but its a straw bedded house. i could have stored the straw in the shed as well but as i've moved away from the tillage i dont have the same amount of straw availabe for bedding. the same lad is weighting up his options on keeping cattle so might not be using his slatted unit in future. if thats the case i might well be tempted to rent that one alright for yearlings.

blue5000

Hi Larry, just a few questions. What is your current farming system, will you be buying in cattle to finish or are you producing your own?

What are the repayments like compared to renting?

Fulltime or part time farming?

delaval

Manoffeeling wrote: »

No he isn't mad. Too much negativity from people who yet remain on the land. I'm starting to build in the spring, I hope. 6 span tank and ly back with a row of pens on the other side of the feed passage. I have no machinery or cattle but my sanity!

Too many knockers here, and I don't mean the mammary kind.

Nobody knocking here. If you read his question which I did and gave my answer. If he wants to build 5 sheds he can but the country is falling down with empty slatts built in 09 with grants and now big repayment.

pakalasa

delaval wrote: »

... but the country is falling down with empty slatts built in 09 with grants and now big repayment.

Seriously, are they that many empty slatted sheds in the country?

nashmach

pakalasa wrote: »

Seriously, are they that many empty slatted sheds in the country?

I don't see too many of them anyway.....

mf240

nashmach wrote: »

I don't see too many of them anyway.....

There empty for the last three or four weeks

bob charles

plenty of empty ones but not in convenient locations

delaval

pakalasa wrote: »

Seriously, are they that many empty slatted sheds in the country?

There are 3 within 10 mins of me 1 will house 600 cattle. It must be different in all your areas. We have 3 rented one built brand new in 09 nd was only ever half full

Juniorhurler

Not one within 5 miles of me, didn't look any further. Hence I am in the middle of building one.

lakill Farm

I plan on building a 3 or 4 bay single bay shed in next year or two.
main reason I like the cattle in my yard, and gives me flexibility on renting land as don't need a shed on it.

agree that there are loads of empty sheds, but unfortunately not a free one beside me. im 29 yo so 20k over a useful life of 40 years isn't to bad.

PatQfarmer

larrymiller wrote: »

Lads do yee reckon one would be mad to build a slatted shed for finishing cattle, currently just have normal sheds but thinking in the longrun for myself when I take over, what's peoples advice on it, I have been talking to the banks and that end is ok, I'm just thinking the likes of, slurry spreader, adgitator, planning and design, have a 110 hp tractor so I'm ok if I was to get my own machinery, also would I be wasting my time if I was to wait on more grants to come out ( cause I think I would) any advice apreciated, lm

I've got an older yard as well. Silage Pit under HB and double L2 off the sides.
I have looked often at putting in slats, or slatted feed passage, but for beef, can't justify the cost.
Also, I think the cattle are better in a large, loose straw shed, than cooped up on slats. Then again, the slats are very handy and slurry much easier to deal with than FYM.
If I had spare cash, I would do a feed passage at least. It would reduce amount of straw required.

yellow50HX

PatQfarmer wrote: »

I've got an older yard as well. Silage Pit under HB and double L2 off the sides.
I have looked often at putting in slats, or slatted feed passage, but for beef, can't justify the cost.
Also, I think the cattle are better in a large, loose straw shed, than cooped up on slats. Then again, the slats are very handy and slurry much easier to deal with than FYM.
If I had spare cash, I would do a feed passage at least. It would reduce amount of straw required.

from you rdescription doyou use the yard and scrap it down to a dung tank?
do you have a concrete floor in each leanto? do you have silage in the pit? if so do youself feed or use a grab to put in a feeder?
dependsing on what kinda cattle you have and the size of teh lean to's you could put a feed rail on each side with the straw beeding in dehind and not use the yard at all

PatQfarmer

yellow50HX wrote: »

do you have a concrete floor in each leanto? do you have silage in teh pit? if so you proabaly have a open tank?

Concrete floors in all and large concrete apron to front. No tank. Had "hole in ground" that yard was scraped into years ago, but covered up as would be locked up now:)
Anyway, couldn't be scraping open yards, time tight enough as it is.
Yard layout wouldn't lend itself to a tank and scraped feed passage. Tank would be in the way wherever it was put.
Lamp in straw with plenty of space per animal and its ok...and cost-effective.

yellow50HX

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Concrete floors in all and large concrete apron to front. No tank. Had "hole in ground" that yard was scraped into years ago, but covered up as would be locked up now:)
Anyway, couldn't be scraping open yards, time tight enough as it is.
Yard layout wouldn't lend itself to a tank and scraped feed passage. Tank would be in the way wherever it was put.
Lamp in straw with plenty of space per animal and its ok...and cost-effective.

so how is it set up now? where are they fed and how?

what you could do is if your lean to is wide enough is to run a feed passge down the final 10ft or so. put in a few salvaged h H irons and hilti bolt them to the concrete. hang feed barriers off them then throw out the bale against the pit wall away for the feed pasage. They'll dung any straw along by the barrier so put it at the back of the pen that where they will lie anyway. You can do this in each leanto and leave the pit for silage or storage. You'll still have to muck out the shed but you can move the cattle to your holdign yard while this is been done. Hang gates out to the yard to keep teh cattle in and for access for bedding and cleaning. Uncle has similar set up but beds the cattle when he feeds them meal, they are too busy eatign to woryy about him coming in with the bale.

PatQfarmer

yellow50HX wrote: »

so how is it set up now? where are they fed and how?

what you could do is if your lean to is wide enough is to run a feed passge down the final 10ft or so. put in a few salvaged h H irons and hilti bolt them to the concrete. hang feed barriers off them then throw out the bale against the pit wall away for the feed pasage. They'll dung any straw along by the barrier so put it at the back of the pen that where they will lie anyway. You can do this in each leanto and leave the pit for silage or storage. You'll still have to muck out the shed but you can move the cattle to your holdign yard while this is been done. Hang gates out to the yard to keep teh cattle in and for access for bedding and cleaning. Uncle has similar set up but beds the cattle when he feeds them meal, they are too busy eatign to woryy about him coming in with the bale.

Been thinking about this for this year. Last year used round feeder under L2 and dropped in bale while stock let out to yard for meal in troughs.
This year will do some sort of barrier and feed entirely in shed. got to work out best location to allow access for cleaning as well as feeding without having to open barriers. Big lie-back and tighter feed space may be best option. Lowest cost solution likely to be the one implemented. Any surplus going into land improvement rather than sheds.

Tipp Man

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Been thinking about this for this year. Last year used round feeder under L2 and dropped in bale while stock let out to yard for meal in troughs.
This year will do some sort of barrier and feed entirely in shed. got to work out best location to allow access for cleaning as well as feeding without having to open barriers. Big lie-back and tighter feed space may be best option. Lowest cost solution likely to be the one implemented. Any surplus going into land improvement rather than sheds.

Are you using the hay barn for silage Pat or are you all bales?

If not using the silage pit you could knock the walls between pit and L2 and put feed barriers there - that way they'd have to whole L2 so shouldn't get as mucky

Lastin

If you NEED IT and can repay it and intend to stay with stock go ahead.

yellow50HX

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Been thinking about this for this year. Last year used round feeder under L2 and dropped in bale while stock let out to yard for meal in troughs.
This year will do some sort of barrier and feed entirely in shed. got to work out best location to allow access for cleaning as well as feeding without having to open barriers. Big lie-back and tighter feed space may be best option. Lowest cost solution likely to be the one implemented. Any surplus going into land improvement rather than sheds.

from what your saying it looks like you have most of the what you need in place. Hang a few gates across the front of teh lean to and stick a few H irons with rails down along on side to make a feed barrier. you can throw the meal along the feed passage on top of the silage, this is what we do and they have no problems cleaning it off. You can then use teh pit to store your bales and tractor.

how wide is the leanto, and how many cattle will you be housing? that will determine the area of sheds as depend on the size of you rtractor your need about 10ft to drop teh silage and still have room to push it in. Although a friend of my dad converted a shed a few years ago and delibratly kept it narrow. just wide enough for the tractor. The cows eat from both sides so can actually reach almost all teh silage, he can then just push the reaining bits to the sides for them

i'd say with a good eye for a bargin you could have a feed passage in for 1k as the floor and buildign are already in place

lakill Farm

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Been thinking about this for this year. Last year used round feeder under L2 and dropped in bale while stock let out to yard for meal in troughs.
This year will do some sort of barrier and feed entirely in shed. got to work out best location to allow access for cleaning as well as feeding without having to open barriers. Big lie-back and tighter feed space may be best option. Lowest cost solution likely to be the one implemented. Any surplus going into land improvement rather than sheds.

see pat you have a 3 month winter. up here its 5 months plus, so cattle inside saves our ground.

PatQfarmer

lakill Farm wrote: »

see pat you have a 3 month winter. up here its 5 months plus, so cattle inside saves our ground.

Winter still here now!!:D

PatQfarmer

Tipp Man wrote: »

Are you using the hay barn for silage Pat or are you all bales?

If not using the silage pit you could knock the walls between pit and L2 and put feed barriers there - that way they'd have to whole L2 so shouldn't get as mucky

Have been all bales last few years.
Would be slow to knock pit walls, may use it again sometime:)
L2 is 54' wide, but VERY low(7') at edge. Can't put feed barrier at side, unless I lift out a beech hedge along house/farm avenue...which would mean divorce:)
Hard to dig it out without lifting off roof. Straw it is for now, external feed passage to the front, facing East, may be the answer. But not this year!

PatQfarmer

yellow50HX wrote: »

from what your saying it looks like you have most of the what you need in place. Hang a few gates across the front of teh lean to and stick a few H irons with rails down along on side to make a feed barrier. you can throw the meal along the feed passage on top of the silage, this is what we do and they have no problems cleaning it off. You can then use teh pit to store your bales and tractor.

i'd say with a good eye for a bargin you could have a feed passage in for 1k as the floor and buildign are already in place

Thanks yellow. I can't feed along the side as I'd have to dig out a beech hedge that "hides" the shed when driving to the house.
External feed passage to front of shed may be best option in a more profitable year.

bob charles

PatQfarmer wrote: »

External feed passage to front of shed may be best option in a more profitable year.

dont ever build during a profitable year

PatQfarmer

bob charles wrote: »

dont ever build during a profitable year

True that, Bob:D
Little risk of having one any time soon, though!

yellow50HX

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Thanks yellow. I can't feed along the side as I'd have to dig out a beech hedge that "hides" the shed when driving to the house.
External feed passage to front of shed may be best option in a more profitable year.

I was thinking inside the shed (if it was wide enough).
You could recess in a feed passage accross the front of the shed to provide an over hang but ideally you would need access from the rear to bed it with out having to open the front area. The other worry about usign the frotn area as a feed passage is that with the fall on the floor the run off will be going through your feed area.

yellow50HX

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Have been all bales last few years.
Would be slow to knock pit walls, may use it again sometime:)
L2 is 54' wide, but VERY low(7') at edge. Can't put feed barrier at side, unless I lift out a beech hedge along house/farm avenue...which would mean divorce:)
Hard to dig it out without lifting off roof. Straw it is for now, external feed passage to the front, facing East, may be the answer. But not this year!

Thats a fair width alright. I assume your tractor can fit under the lowest point for cleaning out? You could run a 10ft feed passage along the inside of the pit wall and that would still give you 45ft for a bedding area. and you can still come in about halfway down with your bale.

J DEERE

Our setup is exactly the same at home. We had an external yard and a slurry pit to scrape into. We tried the feed passage in the shed but it was absolute hardship. Used a lot of straw and lot of dung. We ran slats along the front of the shed. Great job altogether. We can lock them off the straw bedding during the day

yellow50HX

J DEERE wrote: »

Our setup is exactly the same at home. We had an external yard and a slurry pit to scrape into. We tried the feed passage in the shed but it was absolute hardship. Used a lot of straw and lot of dung. We ran slats along the front of the shed. Great job altogether. We can lock them off the straw bedding during the day

Yeah thats a big draw back with the straw bedded sheds in that the area where they are standing gets dunged very quickly. but it fine as a short term plan or if you have plenty of straw. all depnds on his much you wanna spend.

Still plenty of straw bed houses round here. 1 neighbour has his sucklers cows and calves on straw all winter. he does clean the pen out often enough but reckons they do better on straw. That said his are big SIM and CH cows so they would find it tough going on slats on cubilces.

unlce has a slatted unit accross the front of his straw bedding for deeding and collecting slurry and run off. He also put in a timber to stop the straw from gettign dragged out onto the slats.

PatQfarmer

yellow50HX wrote: »

Thats a fair width alright. I assume your tractor can fit under the lowest point for cleaning out? You could run a 10ft feed passage along the inside of the pit wall and that would still give you 45ft for a bedding area. and you can still come in about halfway down with your bale.

Tractor wont fit out under the lowest part, but "just" reach lowest edge wall to clean with grab. A bit of forking needed too:)
Have seen slatted external feed passage on neighbours farm, think it's the way to go.

yellow50HX

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Tractor wont fit out under the lowest part, but "just" reach lowest edge wall to clean with grab. A bit of forking needed too:)
Have seen slatted external feed passage on neighbours farm, think it's the way to go.

you would proably still need access for cleaning out so. watch to make sure you have enough space on the slats to get in and out with the tractor and there is enough room to swing and you'll have pillars in the way. also make sure you spec tractor slats if you go that route

lakill Farm

Pat, you need a skidsteer or a 135 and transport box

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Tractor wont fit out under the lowest part, but "just" reach lowest edge wall to clean with grab. A bit of forking needed too:)
Have seen slatted external feed passage on neighbours farm, think it's the way to go.

yellow50HX

lakill Farm wrote: »

Pat, you need a skidsteer or a 135 and transport box

buckrake would be better

PatQfarmer

lakill Farm wrote: »

Pat, you need a skidsteer or a 135 and transport box

I'd love a skidsteer, with all the attachments of course:D
Would save me a lot of forking!
Then again, if I had one, I'd be more broke and more fat:)