Leap Card top up question

Tusky

Just got a Leap Card. I assumed that I could top up online, but now it seems that you still have to bring the card to a specific machine in order to have the credit added on. Is this true?

Why do you have to choose a specific machine, surely the credit should be added as soon as you swipe it at any machine?

I'll be using the card mostly on Dublin Bus so I will still have to go into a shop in order to top up. Seems a bit useless if so.

Also, it mentions that it might take 24-48 hours for the credit to be loaded onto the card?! Madness.

The whole benefit of the card is that I won't have to carry change, but the uncertainty about whether the credit has been added or not will mean I will have to carry change just in case.

coylemj

Tusky wrote: »

Just got a Leap Card. I assumed that I could top up online, but now it seems that you still have to bring the card to a specific machine in order to have the credit added on. Is this true?

You can purchase topup online but you have to go to a machine to pick it up, this can include a Payzone machine in a shop, you just ask them to check the balance and it will be added but of course that means you'd be as well off doing the topup there instead of online.

I think you can also nominate a Dart station and it will be added when you use the card at one of the gates, that means that you have to actually travel to get the credit because I don't think you can pickup the topup at one of the ticket machines in that station.

Effectively it means that if you're not a regular Dart user, you're as well off topping up in a Payzone shop and just don't bother using the online topup facility which I never use.

Dravokivich

If you choose irish rail, you should be able to get the topup at a tvm. you don't need to travel.

Although, while there, you may as well use the tvm.

OP, the reason it doesn't get added automatically, is the credit needs to be written to the card. This will only happen through usage.

markpb

Tusky wrote: »

Just got a Leap Card. I assumed that I could top up online, but now it seems that you still have to bring the card to a specific machine in order to have the credit added on. Is this true?

I'll be using the card on Dublin Bus so I will still have to go into a shop in order to top up. Seems a bit useless if so.

Also, it mentions that it might take 24-48 hours for the credit to be loaded onto the card?!

They're piloting a feature right now called automatic top-up which could solve your problems as a DB user. You will be able to register your bank details with them and select a threshold amount and top-up amount. When your balance falls below the threshold amount, the next time you tag on, the bus will give you the top-up amount automatically. That night, you'll be direct debited for the top-up amount. If it fails, the purse on your card will be blocked.

In the meantime, yes, you'll need to go to a Payzone outlet to receive the amount you purchased online.

Seve OB

Dravokivich wrote: »

OP, the reason it doesn't get added automatically, is the credit needs to be written to the card. This will only happen through usage.

Im in the similar boat as the OP here. I have a leap card, and don't use it that often but know i will need it at the weekend and there is no credit on it so i have to top up. can i just rock up to a train station and load up there and then?
it's coolmine station and there will be nobody working there..just the machine.

i also don't accept your excuse re the online top up. how come when i ordered my leap card online and choose to load credit on it, it arrived to me with the credit in place..... i really don't understand the logic behind the online top up and then having to go and collect it.... may as well have no online top up.

my other half got a card there and she tried to top up on line and it wanted to now the specific location where she would collect it.... she didn't know, what would happen if the place was closed.... online top up that you have to collect is ridiculous and stupid and really needs to be done properly or gotten rid of

cdebru

stevieob wrote: »

Im in the similar boat as the OP here. I have a leap card, and don't use it that often but know i will need it at the weekend and there is no credit on it so i have to top up. can i just rock up to a train station and load up there and then?
it's coolmine station and there will be nobody working there..just the machine.

i also don't accept your excuse re the online top up. how come when i ordered my leap card online and choose to load credit on it, it arrived to me with the credit in place..... i really don't understand the logic behind the online top up and then having to go and collect it.... may as well have no online top up.

my other half got a card there and she tried to top up on line and it wanted to now the specific location where she would collect it.... she didn't know, what would happen if the place was closed.... online top up that you have to collect is ridiculous and stupid and really needs to be done properly or gotten rid of

because the card itself has no network connection and DB ticket machines don't have a network connection, so they don't know you have topped up. So you need to go to a machine that has a network connection, it can then apply the top up.

JustAddWater

A smartphone app (or at least a mobile site) to check my history, balances etc would be nice too

Seems like a completely missed opportunity

If you're around Dublin you can top up anything over €5 at a luas. Its got a function to allow you to put in any amount over €5.... Just put your change in the machine and when your done it writes to the card

Handy if you're near a luas stop

cdebru

JustAddWater wrote: »

A smartphone app (or at least a mobile site) to check my history, balances etc would be nice too

Seems like a completely missed opportunity

If you're around Dublin you can top up anything over €5 at a luas. Its got a function to allow you to put in any amount over €5.... Just put your change in the machine and when your done it writes to the card

Handy if you're near a luas stop

Again because DB machines are not connected to the network, so the transaction are saved to your card and to the ticket machine and then the ticket machine is polled when the bus is in the depot and the network is updated as to your balance.

So a real time leap card balance app would be inaccurate if you had made any bus journeys since the last time the network was updated.

noelfirl

stevieob wrote: »

Im in the similar boat as the OP here. I have a leap card, and don't use it that often but know i will need it at the weekend and there is no credit on it so i have to top up. can i just rock up to a train station and load up there and then?
it's coolmine station and there will be nobody working there..just the machine.

Yes, you can load credit through the ticket vending machine at any DART/Commuter rail station in the Dublin area.

i also don't accept your excuse re the online top up. how come when i ordered my leap card online and choose to load credit on it, it arrived to me with the credit in place..... i really don't understand the logic behind the online top up and then having to go and collect it.... may as well have no online top up.

Because they topped up the card when they packaged and sent it out to you? Otherwise for a regular top up it has to come into contact with a load point in order to receive the credit.

my other half got a card there and she tried to top up on line and it wanted to now the specific location where she would collect it.... she didn't know, what would happen if the place was closed.... online top up that you have to collect is ridiculous and stupid and really needs to be done properly or gotten rid of

The need to present the card at a collection point to topup credit or load a product is standard for many transport smart card systems in use in various cities.

JustAddWater

cdebru wrote: »

Again because DB machines are not connected to the network, so the transaction are saved to your card and to the ticket machine and then the ticket machine is polled when the bus is in the depot and the network is updated as to your balance.

So a real time leap card balance app would be inaccurate if you had made any bus journeys since the last time the network was updated.

Display the balance and a note "Recent DB transactions nay not appear on your statement"

My bank balance is not real time either, the amount is but the transactions themselves dont show up sometimes for a few days

Not rocket science.... The user would know if he made a trip earlier in the day or not

TheBandicoot

On a tangent, maybe the NTA could release an app for NFC-enabled phones that would allow you to purchase a topup online and then touch your Leap card to your phone to collect it there and then. There's a probably an issue there with any Leap reader needing some kind of private key that they can't just package into an publicly-available app, or the NFC readers in smartphones don't have the right hardware/firmware/OS APIs to support this.

smackyB

TheBandicoot wrote: »

On a tangent, maybe the NTA could release an app for NFC-enabled phones that would allow you to purchase a topup online and then touch your Leap card to your phone to collect it there and then. There's a probably an issue there with any Leap reader needing some kind of private key that they can't just package into an publicly-available app, or the NFC readers in smartphones don't have the right hardware/firmware/OS APIs to support this.

Yep I've investigated this as I'm an Android dev and would love to make an app to check the balance on my card. But unfortunately there's no way to even read the balance without an encryption key and despite emails to people in the NTA they don't seem to be forthcoming with allowing anyone any access, even for a read-only key

Seve OB

cdebru wrote: »

Again because DB machines are not connected to the network, so the transaction are saved to your card and to the ticket machine and then the ticket machine is polled when the bus is in the depot and the network is updated as to your balance.

So a real time leap card balance app would be inaccurate if you had made any bus journeys since the last time the network was updated.

that's stupid. if that's the take on it, why can we log into a webpage to see our balance and transactions there?

an app would surely just be a replication of the info on the webpage... i'm no developer, but the information is all in there already, it's just a question of creating an interface

bk

stevieob wrote: »

that's stupid. if that's the take on it, why can we log into a webpage to see our balance and transactions there?

an app would surely just be a replication of the info on the webpage... i'm no developer, but the information is all in there already, it's just a question of creating an interface

The information on the webpage can be a few days out of sync with what's on the card.

I believe an Android app does exist which basically shows the info from the web page, but again that too can be a few days out of sync.

Seve OB

bk wrote: »

The information on the webpage can be a few days out of sync with what's on the card.

I believe an Android app does exist which basically shows the info from the web page, but again that too can be a few days out of sync.

it's better than nothing isn't it?

as i previously said, i use mine very rare so wouldnt know if ive a tenner, a fiver or nothing left on it. if i had an app it will tell me. im gonna remember if ive used it in the last 2 days and roughly what that would be.

anyway, any time ive checked online, it's been up to date very quickly, as in that evening...

Dravokivich

JustAddWater wrote: »

Display the balance and a note "Recent DB transactions nay not appear on your statement"

My bank balance is not real time either, the amount is but the transactions themselves dont show up sometimes for a few days

Not rocket science.... The user would know if he made a trip earlier in the day or not

Its not just DB, transaction history on the website isn't live. the most recent stuff, is usually going to be a day behind, regardless of who you are using the leap card with.

If you want a realtime update, any leap enabled device can read the card and display it for you.

in payzone and dublin bus, they can print out the last 5 things you did with it too.

Amirani

Dravokivich wrote: »

Its not just DB, transaction history on the website isn't live. the most recent stuff, is usually going to be a day behind, regardless of who you are using the leap card with.

If you want a realtime update, any leap enabled device can read the card and display it for you.

in payzone and dublin bus, they can print out the last 5 things you did with it too.

One of the main marketing goals for Leap at the moment should be promoting the availability of top-up locations. Either by installing new machines in prominent locations or else having payzone locations stand out more.

Dravokivich

NiallSparky wrote: »

One of the main marketing goals for Leap at the moment should be promoting the availability of top-up locations. Either by installing new machines in prominent locations or else having payzone locations stand out more.

Well, that's different to what I was responding to above. However, part of the issue with Payzone as a method of distributing Leap topups, is that each retailer is an independent business and may likely focus their own attention elsewhere, when profitability is concerned.

cdebru

Dravokivich wrote: »

Well, that's different to what I was responding to above. However, part of the issue with Payzone as a method of distributing Leap topups, is that each retailer is an independent business and may likely focus their own attention elsewhere, when profitability is concerned.

Indeed there is no profit in Payzone except for payzone most retailers would probably be losing on it.

Amirani

Dravokivich wrote: »

Well, that's different to what I was responding to above. However, part of the issue with Payzone as a method of distributing Leap topups, is that each retailer is an independent business and may likely focus their own attention elsewhere, when profitability is concerned.

Sorry, I just made that post as a bit of a rambling continuation of your own. I was in agreement with your original post, and just raising the issues of Payzone.

AlekSmart

cdebru wrote: »

Indeed there is no profit in Payzone except for payzone most retailers would probably be losing on it.

Right now,If I was in charge of the ITS,I would be decoupling from the PayZone Network as fast as possible.

I'd be more inclined to move to ATM based Top-Up's OR the simplest,cheapest and most effective solution,stick a Card Reader on each RTPI pole (already hard-wired and comms enabled).

http://www.kentstainless.com/by-project/stadium-and-arena/street-furniture-for-stadia/kent-bus-rtpi-pole

This act alone would introduce several hundred NEW and widespread locations where Leap Top-Up's could be loaded with minimal effort,and NO extra sneaky gouging of a few cents from the NTA's customers.

Something needs to be done and FAST,as my daily experience is increasingly of people telling me that they HAVE a Leapcard,but don't have credit on it,usually because of not having a LeapCard agent near their home....these are BUS customers who will freely admit to being Computer Users.....Just how much nodding and winking do the NTA require before responding to this.

Perhaps if they did a trawl of the number of now Inactive Leapcards it might light a 15W lightbulb over some Leather backed swivel chair ....?

KD345

What is the situation with the automatic top up feature? What was the outcome of the trial.

It seems like every little development takes a very long time with Leap.

I had assumed the auto top up facility was active following the trial last year, but after searching the website, I rang customer service who explained it was just a trial. They had no information when it would be rolled out fully. However, it seems those who took part in the trial still can top up automatically.

I fee most people get what Leap is about, it's just made very difficult to use.

bk

I was on the trial and my Leap Card auto-tops up.

Works very well, I never have to think about topping up my leap card. However I don't think it would be for many people due to the relatively high limits and top-up amounts and people just not trusting Leap with their bank details. Understandable given all the issues Leap has had until now.

Alek I would think that it would be cheaper to replace all the ticket machines on Dublin Bus with a model that can handle online top-ups. There is no reason why online top-ups can't be sent to all bus on a frequent basis (once an hour) over the same 3G network that RTPI is obviously using.

This would be a much more complete solution then putting validators on RTPI pole and it would also fix the speed problem with the ticket machines.

markpb

AlekSmart wrote: »

Right now,If I was in charge of the ITS,I would be decoupling from the PayZone Network as fast as possible.

I'd be more inclined to move to ATM based Top-Up's OR the simplest,cheapest and most effective solution,stick a Card Reader on each RTPI pole (already hard-wired and comms enabled).

I don't think this suggestion woul work for a variety of reasons.

Which banks ATMs would you like to see Leap enabled? AIB, BOI or all of them? If you choose all of them, you have six reasonbly complicated integrations to go through and six times the ongoing billing, settlement and reconciliation process.

Each of those ATMs would need to be fitted with a Leap card readers. For Payzone, that means plugging the reader in and sitting it on the counter. For ATMs, that means going to Dibold or another manufacturer and physically rebuilt. You're not going to do that on the side of the road so that means bringing the ATM away, possibly abroad, doing the work and reinstalling it.

But before you do any of that, you have to ask why, apart from mobile top-up, ATMs don't offer any other ancillary services? At a guess it's because the complexity of rewriting their software and the cost that the bank would charge would make the service uneconomic.

And all that is before the myriad of DB, IR and Luas tickets come along. Is the ATM going to explain to people the difference between a monthly ticket and a 30 day ticket?

Adding Leap validators to many of the RTPI poles is a good idea but only helps with online topups and ticket collection but doesn't help people who want to pay by cash. A surprising number of people in this country don't have bank accounts and I'd guess they overlap substantially with public transport users. This is obviously another reason why ATMs are unsuitable.

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

Adding Leap validators to many of the RTPI poles is a good idea but only helps with online topups and ticket collection but doesn't help people who want to pay by cash. A surprising number of people in this country don't have bank accounts and I'd guess they overlap substantially with public transport users. This is obviously another reason why ATMs are unsuitable.

Oh well..I guess I'll hafta take the hit on the ATM,although I rather suspect that the actual technology itself would be the least limiting factor in the process....The ever increasing demands of the Irish Banking Sector for Profit would most likely sink it straightaway.

However with the RTPI poles I make No apology for it being directly focused at significantly increasing the number of On-Line Toppers-Up amongst BUS users...every small step in convenience will bring another cash user on board the ITS,and that HAS to be a positive thing.

As far as facilitating the Cash Payers goes,it's quite simple I won't.....

The arrival of Luas BXD will,hopefully,bring more of their Vending Machines which can load LeapCredit,I would also suggest the facade of 59 O Connell St as another ideal location for a LeapCard Top Up Machine....;)

Cash Fare Payment needs to be migrated OFF the Bus Platform totally..If ye want to fumble and root for coins,then the pavement beckons..some sorta wildly expensive Flat Fare or better value Day Ticket to be available at simple Vending Machines in the City Centre area at any rate...all other (Cheaper) options to be Contactless Card ONLY.

It's time for the soft-launch option to get a bit harder ?

markpb

AlekSmart wrote: »

As far as facilitating the Cash Payers goes,it's quite simple I won't.....

Oops. I should have said that I was talking about cash sales off-bus. I'm as anti cash on bus as you are :-)

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

Oops. I should have said that I was talking about cash sales off-bus. I'm as anti cash on bus as you are :-)

My bad too,the froth on my lips splattered up onto my monocle...:(

ando88

Hi, can anyone confirm if there is 'emergeny' credit on the leap card? I am showing 1.80e not enough to get me to city, is it possible to go into overdraft on the card?

cheers

bren2002

Yes up to -5 euro

cython

bren2002 wrote: »

Yes up to -5 euro

Assuming you start with a positive balance (even just 1c). You can not start a journey with a negative balance, however, even if the fare for the journey would not bring you below -€5. Not a concern in the OP's scenario, but in case someone else happens on the thread

BuffyBot

ando88 wrote: »

Hi, can anyone confirm if there is 'emergeny' credit on the leap card? I am showing 1.80e not enough to get me to city, is it possible to go into overdraft on the card?

cheers

Thread from 2013. Don't bump ancient threads.